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  • Psychology and faith

    Is it true that psycologist and those in similar fields have a higher occurance of mental illness? Could that be because understanding how the psyche works may give a false notion that you can somehow control it more than others?
    II Timothy 2:15
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  • #2
    Originally posted by Studyin'2Show View Post
    Is it true that psycologist and those in similar fields have a higher occurance of mental illness? Could that be because understanding how the psyche works may give a false notion that you can somehow control it more than others?
    Lets take this to PMs if you would like to discuss it because I would rather keep this thread focused upon conversion. Thanks

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    • #3
      physchology is a man based religion that teaches on the basis that man can help himself, the bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches that man CANNOT help himself.
      Of course man can drop and pick up bad habits by himself to some extent. for example before I was saved, i quit going to hookers before i got married. But it wasnt until i accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and my savior that the lust was removed from my heart.
      Physcholgy vainly attempts to change mans habits while Jesus changes mans heart. Glory be to God

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      • #4
        Why do I feel as if my profession is slammed every other thread these days?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by crosspreacher View Post
          physchology is a man based religion that teaches on the basis that man can help himself, the bible from Genesis to Revelation teaches that man CANNOT help himself.
          Of course man can drop and pick up bad habits by himself to some extent. for example before I was saved, i quit going to hookers before i got married. But it wasnt until i accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and my savior that the lust was removed from my heart.
          Physcholgy vainly attempts to change mans habits while Jesus changes mans heart. Glory be to God
          Psychology is the observation of human behavior. To observe human behavior is not man-based religion. It is observation as anything else and observation is not sinful. Certain streams do apply it to do what you say, but the observation of human behavior is not guilty of that. By the very fact that you experienced a life change through God and talking about it, you are discussing human behavior which is the realm of psychology.

          I have a psychological understanding, but that psychological understand also makes God essential in this world for us to live righteously. Is that a man-based religion or is that applying psychology to understand human behavior and the change it has through God more deeply?

          Do not paint broad brushes, nor judge a field on the basis of a few.

          BTW any mod that can in here, would you please move this string of conversation (including the posts prior to this) into another thread. I don't want to divert the purpose of this thread but I don't mind discussing this topic.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DAISHI View Post
            Why do I feel as if my profession is slammed every other thread these days?
            ur in a profession that is hard to carry along with your being born again, but you cant take it personally, your a blood bought child of God, and thats formost Alot of us have to keep secular jobs that may not line up with our faith. thats what stinks about being in the world. Lets just hope jesus comes back soon

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            • #7
              Now that this thread has been created... I am just curious, what do y'all perceive the possible role that psychology can give to help us understand our relationship to God and spirituality? This is open to everyone.

              BTW Studyin2Show, I'll address your question here a little bit later. But a very general answer is yes, but it needs to be understood in a little more detail.

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              • #8
                While I don't agree with all aspects of Psychology, there is good in it and I say that as a Licensed Christian Therapist. The reason I did not just go straight secular therapist is because it was my desire to use the word of God to help people with their problems and "issues."

                Unlike a lot of counselors today, I make people take responsibility for thier actions and choices. I refuse to let people I counsel blame their past or blame unfortunate things that happened to them be the reason for who they are today, the way they think and the things they do.

                There needs to be a lot more accountability today on the "patient" in the psychology realm than just to say it's sickness and not sin.

                I've seen many people helped through good Bible/Christian counseling.

                I'll be the first to tell you upfront that Freud was a sex obsessed individual who himself had problems he refused to deal with.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Offering of Praise View Post
                  I'll be the first to tell you upfront that Freud was a sex obsessed individual who himself had problems he refused to deal with.
                  And Jung thought that God's name was "synchronicity".
                  This poor man called, and the LORD heard him; he saved him out of all his troubles. (Psalm 34:6)

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                  • #10
                    Having done a Psychology in Evangelism course in the past I think it can be helpful providing a Christian knows the Bible well enough to 'eat the flesh and spit out the stones'. . . it can be a helpful tool but is not helpful if taken to extremes, which possiby those who committed suicide had done.

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                    • #11
                      I think we need to ask the question though, can we use psychology to give us insight into meanings of Scripture (of course considering them in context and not just saying it aligns with this psychological principle) or psychology only to be understand in light of Scripture?

                      By this I mean, for example take Romans 6:19. It sounds a lot like Paul applies the ideas of habits to lawlessness and sanctification? Would it be wrong for us to bring the behavioral view of habits into this verse, of course considering that the writers of the Bible would not have had the type of understanding that psychology has. Whereas the writers would understand most everything in terms of sin and holiness and any psychological principles they understood would be very basic and relatively easy to see, psychology sees things more in terms of behavior and theory and not in sin and holiness.

                      Long story short, can we take the author of the Bible in some instances to be referring to what would be basic principles of psychology and applying it to the realm of holiness and sin (and spirituality in general)?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Offering of Praise View Post
                        While I don't agree with all aspects of Psychology, there is good in it and I say that as a Licensed Christian Therapist. The reason I did not just go straight secular therapist is because it was my desire to use the word of God to help people with their problems and "issues."

                        Unlike a lot of counselors today, I make people take responsibility for thier actions and choices. I refuse to let people I counsel blame their past or blame unfortunate things that happened to them be the reason for who they are today, the way they think and the things they do.

                        There needs to be a lot more accountability today on the "patient" in the psychology realm than just to say it's sickness and not sin.

                        I've seen many people helped through good Bible/Christian counseling.

                        I'll be the first to tell you upfront that Freud was a sex obsessed individual who himself had problems he refused to deal with.

                        I don't know if you realized how cold hearted that sounded... There are people who are/were deeply affected by horrible abuse as children...to just dismiss that and 'zero' in on their current sins to 'hold them accountable' is well alot like pouring salt in the wounds. It doesn't take that much thinking to realize a young woman who is sleeping around with older men is due to being sexually abused by her dad or step dad at a young age...and she is seeking to find that love that was denied her....so to her love has become distorted and twisted and found only in sex. To just blast her with her 'sins' of sleeping around, doesn't help her understand why she is doing it in the first place ...once she does understand it she can be directed to the healthy love of a Father in Heaven...but until she understands why she is doing what she is doing, I think she is going to have a rough time finding God and building a healthy relationship with Him.

                        Its not about 'blaming the past'.....its about acknowledge how the past does affect us and affects our very relationship with God...the past explains...then the healing can start then the accountablity can start too. Alot of times people don't even understand why they do what they do...to lump it all in with 'we are all born with a sin nature' isn't enough...not for those actually seeking to understand why they ruin the relationships they have now, or what they caught in ...

                        I truly hope you are not talking to the people that come to see you in the tone you have used on here....20 some years ago...when I was wanting to kill myself and didn't know why and you talked that way to me, that probably would have been enough to push me on over the edge and confrim I was indeed the worthless miserable human being I thought I was and I didn't deserve to live....I had blocked out the abuse so had no idea why I got so severly depressed...so I wasn't 'blaming the past' as I couldn't remember the past...

                        the only thing I knew was I hurt... and I could barely think let alone function...and I had no idea why. I wasn't out 'sinning' as I couldn't function...

                        I just hope you are much kinder to those hurting seeking your help.
                        "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                          I don't know if you realized how cold hearted that sounded... There are people who are/were deeply affected by horrible abuse as children...to just dismiss that and 'zero' in on their current sins to 'hold them accountable' is well alot like pouring salt in the wounds. It doesn't take that much thinking to realize a young woman who is sleeping around with older men is due to being sexually abused by her dad or step dad at a young age...and she is seeking to find that love that was denied her....so to her love has become distorted and twisted and found only in sex. To just blast her with her 'sins' of sleeping around, doesn't help her understand why she is doing it in the first place ...once she does understand it she can be directed to the healthy love of a Father in Heaven...but until she understands why she is doing what she is doing, I think she is going to have a rough time finding God and building a healthy relationship with Him.

                          Its not about 'blaming the past'.....its about acknowledge how the past does affect us and affects our very relationship with God...the past explains...then the healing can start then the accountablity can start too. Alot of times people don't even understand why they do what they do...to lump it all in with 'we are all born with a sin nature' isn't enough...not for those actually seeking to understand why they ruin the relationships they have now, or what they caught in ...

                          I truly hope you are not talking to the people that come to see you in the tone you have used on here....20 some years ago...when I was wanting to kill myself and didn't know why and you talked that way to me, that probably would have been enough to push me on over the edge and confrim I was indeed the worthless miserable human being I thought I was and I didn't deserve to live....I had blocked out the abuse so had no idea why I got so severly depressed...so I wasn't 'blaming the past' as I couldn't remember the past...

                          the only thing I knew was I hurt... and I could barely think let alone function...and I had no idea why. I wasn't out 'sinning' as I couldn't function...

                          I just hope you are much kinder to those hurting seeking your help.
                          I don't think he (or she) means to be a harsh person with what he does. I thing he means to say that people have a choice in what they do and one can not simply chalk it up to the past. He may take into account the past, but also says that one makes a cognitive choice also. At least that is the way I know many therapist approach human behavior.

                          And I have to agree with him too. We should hold people accountable for what they do and not just say its okay because of ones past. Essentially, you have people saying many murders are only that way because they were brought up in a bad home. And yes, this has an effect on why they do what they do, but there has been a trend in many areas to say that ones actions is solely because of the past and it wasn't in any way out of a choice.

                          We need to understand a person's past and accordingly extend a level of grace depending of what brought them to a certain situation. For instance if an abused child grows up as violent, we would be more graceful to them for an act of violence than say the child who had a good home life and still was violent. However, there still has to be an accountability for what one has done. Today though there seems to be a current to deny personal responsibility.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Owen View Post
                            Now that this thread has been created... I am just curious, what do y'all perceive the possible role that psychology can give to help us understand our relationship to God and spirituality? This is open to everyone.
                            In helping us understand our relationship with God? I really have no idea...not from the secular world's viewpoint anyway. The bible itself is full of ideas and a way to think and live that will keep us emotionally and mentally healthy...some are similar to some of the ideas in psychology (as in changing the way you think)...but usually God is left out and I don't think any secular therapy can be totally successful without God in it...the spirit is rarely address...I have seen too many that improved in their mental health but never got completely well because the spiritual part of them was never addressed....only the mind was treated...some physically as with medication but never the spirit so they never got completely better again.

                            God bless
                            "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Owen View Post
                              I don't think he (or she) means to be a harsh person with what he does. I thing he means to say that people have a choice in what they do and one can not simply chalk it up to the past. He may take into account the past, but also says that one makes a cognitive choice also. At least that is the way I know many therapist approach human behavior.

                              And I have to agree with him too. We should hold people accountable for what they do and not just say its okay because of ones past. Essentially, you have people saying many murders are only that way because they were brought up in a bad home. And yes, this has an effect on why they do what they do, but there has been a trend in many areas to say that ones actions is solely because of the past and it wasn't in any way out of a choice.

                              We need to understand a person's past and accordingly extend a level of grace depending of what brought them to a certain situation. For instance if an abused child grows up as violent, we would be more graceful to them for an act of violence than say the child who had a good home life and still was violent. However, there still has to be an accountability for what one has done. Today though there seems to be a current to deny personal responsibility.
                              Yes I know...we see that in the court system...I don't see it in the mental health centers though...shoot I can't even get my son's therapist to connect the dots with some of the things Nate has done as being a direct result of what he saw his dad do....(for instance him witnessing his dad kicking his dog around when angry and then Nate abusing our pets) when I tried to bring it up...so we would know where he learned it and how it affected him (getting at the root of the cause), I was told to be quiet...and Nate was only told to 'not do that cause it was wrong'....so Nate was certainly having his behavior excused because of his past...his past was ingored...

                              Then for me, when I wanted to talk about what I went through with my ex, to just get the pain and anger out and deal with it I was told to 'forget the past' it doesn't matter...its over and done with...I went to three different therapist....the first put me on meds to control my anger (which I had to surpressed for years in order to deal with ex and finally came to the surface) rather then my getting it out and dealing with it, I was just drugged. I couldn't function...stopped the meds and went to two other therapist who would not let me discuss ex at all because it was 'in the past and didn't matter'.... Well it did too matter! I went through hell over and over again...I needed to talk it out...that is all I wanted to do....talk it out! And no therapist would listen....they just wanted me to 'relax'...go home and do 'relaxation exercises'....I was ready to explode! I could have been one of those that just went off the deep end and gone and shot up a bunch of people because no one cared enough to listen to my pain....all that did was cause me more pain and more fury...

                              Then I would have been sitting in court and the therapist would testify and say...'oh the past doesn't matter...who knows why she shot all those people...let her hang!' ugh!!!!

                              Its just a good thing I had God to turn too...what I needed was to get it out and He listened to me and then let me know what I needed was to forgive ex...that was the only way the anger and pain would go away...and it was hard but He worked with me on it and I did it...no thanks to any of the therapist I saw...

                              Here no one can blame their past cause they refuse to let anyone even talk about their past...
                              "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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