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The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

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  • Jake
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    Originally posted by divaD View Post
    I would think because it was included in the Bible that it then must be based upon historical fact. Apparently many scholars, etc disagree. Some even think it shouldn't have been included in the the Scriptures in the first place. So then, is this even an inspired writing? If yes, can inspired writings be based solely on fiction? Can anyone show how the story connects with other Scriptures in the Bible? Thoughts?
    It is not a fictional story, all of the books in the Bible were placed there because it was God's Will. This story connects to the rest of the Bible because it's a type for the church in the end times. Some things are hidden in the old (testament), but revealed in the new testament (like Christ). Esther is a type for the Bride, the church. God's name was never mentioned in the Bible, we can see His providence throughout (protecting His church). All of the people in the book of Esther has a type role for the end times, for instance, Haman was the Beast that was put into power.
    People will probably disagree, but this is how I see it.

    Leave a comment:


  • divaD
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    Originally posted by rejoice44 View Post
    What it comes down to is, "do you believe the Bible is the Word of God", and if so, "is God a liar"?


    Here's the way I look at it. First of all, if it can be proven the book of Esther is an inspired writing, then to say the book is based on fiction, that in my my mind seems to indicate the Bible is not trustworthy. In my mind, since at least 3 times we're told something came to pass, that should tell us we're dealing with historical facts, since the Bible is not a book of fairy tales. This doesn't have to mean everything written in the Bible has to be based on historical facts for it to be true, but the point is, since when do fictitious things come to pass in the Scriptures? I can't find any place in Scripture, where something was said to have come to pass, and that it wasn't based upon historical fact. Yet these on the other board say my argument is invalid, while in my mind, I feel I'm holding the trump card, so to speak. But of course, that's only if the book of Esther is inspired writing, IOW, the same way rest of the Bible is.

    If we're to rely on scholars because they would obviously undertand things we probably wouldn't, then why aren't all scholars on the same page with each other?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ta-An
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    Originally posted by rejoice44 View Post
    What it comes down to is, "do you believe the Bible is the Word of God", and if so, "is God a liar"?
    How do you get to that

    Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it good?

    Leave a comment:


  • BroRog
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    Originally posted by rejoice44 View Post
    What it comes down to is, "do you believe the Bible is the Word of God", and if so, "is God a liar"?
    Yes, it may come down to that. But I also think David is asking another question, which involves how to evaluate the writings of those in our society who purport to teach us?

    Leave a comment:


  • rejoice44
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    Originally posted by divaD View Post
    A scholar I am not. But as I read on, I then come to this passage for instance.

    Esther 2:5 Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
    6 Who had been carried away from Jerusalem with the captivity which had been carried away with Jeconiah king of Judah, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away.

    The first thing I have to ask myself,,,is this passage based on historical fact, especially verse 6? If it is, and if the book of Esther is allegedly fictitious according to many scholars, then what are historical facts doing in a book of fiction? What would be the point? Especially since we're talking about the Bible here? Like I said, a scholar I'm not. But don't scholars take passages like this into consideration while trying to determine if this book is based on historical facts or not?

    And one more thing.

    Esther 1:1 Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus, (this is Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces: )

    Esther 2:8 So it came to pass, when the king's commandment and his decree was heard, and when many maidens were gathered together unto Shushan the palace, to the custody of Hegai, that Esther was brought also unto the king's house, to the custody of Hegai, keeper of the women.

    Esther 5:1 Now it came to pass on the third day, that Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house: and the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house, over against the gate of the house.

    The point being. Since this is the Bible we are talking about, do fictitious things come to pass in the Bible?

    The reason I brought this topic up in the first place is because this topic is a current topic on another board. The majority of them seem to side with scholars who see this book as fictitious and pretty much find my arguments as not being valid.
    What it comes down to is, "do you believe the Bible is the Word of God", and if so, "is God a liar"?

    Leave a comment:


  • BroRog
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    Originally posted by divaD View Post
    I would think because it was included in the Bible that it then must be based upon historical fact. Apparently many scholars, etc disagree. Some even think it shouldn't have been included in the the Scriptures in the first place. So then, is this even an inspired writing? If yes, can inspired writings be based solely on fiction? Can anyone show how the story connects with other Scriptures in the Bible? Thoughts?
    Prior to the 19th century, archaeologists and other scientists gave the Bible the benefit of the doubt and used the Bible as source material for places to dig and investigate. However, today, the default position is that the Bible is nothing more than a few moral stories and fables that has no basis in actual fact. I think you will find this a-priori assumption to be the default position in all the most recent scholarly works. Given this assumption, scholars demand that the Bible "prove" itself, (which it has on many occasions lately.) It has been the fashion of modern scholars to doubt the veracity of the Bible for no other reason but as a way to gain intellectual respectability

    Leave a comment:


  • divaD
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    A scholar I am not. But as I read on, I then come to this passage for instance.

    Esther 2:5 Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
    6 Who had been carried away from Jerusalem with the captivity which had been carried away with Jeconiah king of Judah, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away.

    The first thing I have to ask myself,,,is this passage based on historical fact, especially verse 6? If it is, and if the book of Esther is allegedly fictitious according to many scholars, then what are historical facts doing in a book of fiction? What would be the point? Especially since we're talking about the Bible here? Like I said, a scholar I'm not. But don't scholars take passages like this into consideration while trying to determine if this book is based on historical facts or not?

    And one more thing.

    Esther 1:1 Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus, (this is Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces: )

    Esther 2:8 So it came to pass, when the king's commandment and his decree was heard, and when many maidens were gathered together unto Shushan the palace, to the custody of Hegai, that Esther was brought also unto the king's house, to the custody of Hegai, keeper of the women.

    Esther 5:1 Now it came to pass on the third day, that Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house: and the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house, over against the gate of the house.

    The point being. Since this is the Bible we are talking about, do fictitious things come to pass in the Bible?

    The reason I brought this topic up in the first place is because this topic is a current topic on another board. The majority of them seem to side with scholars who see this book as fictitious and pretty much find my arguments as not being valid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ta-An
    replied
    Re: The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    To me, it speaks of Obedience to God... when you are called into a position of service, fulfill the calling
    A message of hope

    Even when God is not visible, He is still in Control

    Leave a comment:


  • divaD
    started a topic The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    The book of Esther. Based on historical fact or fiction?

    I would think because it was included in the Bible that it then must be based upon historical fact. Apparently many scholars, etc disagree. Some even think it shouldn't have been included in the the Scriptures in the first place. So then, is this even an inspired writing? If yes, can inspired writings be based solely on fiction? Can anyone show how the story connects with other Scriptures in the Bible? Thoughts?
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