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  • Question about a verse in 1 Timothy

    It's late, I should be in bed asleep but I'm reading my Bible. I came upon this verse in 1 Timothy:

    20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

    But what does, "delivered them to satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme" mean?

    Back to reading and I hope... sleep as well
    Slug1--out

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

  • #2
    It sounds like Hymenaeus and Alexander did something Paul didn't like, so he turned them over to the authorities.

    To tell you the truth, 1 Timothy really sounds like a really bad high.

    It sounds like Paul is simply a self-righteous person getting off on himself and what he thinks is true.


    And continuing into chapter 2 - it seems the same.


    Personally, I think Paul is the worst thing to happen in the cause of Christ.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
      It's late, I should be in bed asleep but I'm reading my Bible. I came upon this verse in 1 Timothy:

      20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

      But what does, "delivered them to satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme" mean?

      Back to reading and I hope... sleep as well
      The commentary I read about this says the world is divided into two groups: the Kingdom of God (the church) and the kingdom of the world, which is the kingdom of Satan. Excommunication = handing someone over to "the kingdom of the world", i.e, the rule of Satan.

      But somehow this explanation doesn't satisfy me. It would be good to see what others come up with.

      ananias
      "But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers.

      And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.

      Nor be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, even Christ."
      (Mat.23: 8-10)

      AND

      "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another.

      By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another."
      (Joh.13: 34-35)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
        It's late, I should be in bed asleep but I'm reading my Bible. I came upon this verse in 1 Timothy:

        20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

        But what does, "delivered them to satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme" mean?

        Back to reading and I hope... sleep as well
        Paul was encouraging Timothy to hold on to the faith.but some had turned away from the faith, including Hymenaeus and Alexander.

        1 Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

        1 Tim 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

        The message is still the same

        1 Tim 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

        Even Jesus called Peter Satan, because he was an offence to him.

        Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

        Was Jesus wrong to call Peter Satan?

        Was Paul wrong to point out those that were contrary to The Gospel.

        Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

        Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

        Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

        Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
        God bless

        Firstfruits

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
          It sounds like Hymenaeus and Alexander did something Paul didn't like, so he turned them over to the authorities.

          To tell you the truth, 1 Timothy really sounds like a really bad high.

          It sounds like Paul is simply a self-righteous person getting off on himself and what he thinks is true.


          And continuing into chapter 2 - it seems the same.


          Personally, I think Paul is the worst thing to happen in the cause of Christ.
          Are you sure that you are a Christian? Anyone who rejects Paul's revelation throws out any possibility of understanding the church or God's eternal purpose. However, being new to this particular forum maybe you are just joking?If not then I would like to hear your testimony.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
            It's late, I should be in bed asleep but I'm reading my Bible. I came upon this verse in 1 Timothy:

            20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

            But what does, "delivered them to satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme" mean?

            Back to reading and I hope... sleep as well
            in 1 Corinthians 5 he told the church to deliver unto Satan the man who was sleeping with his stepmother... meaning to cast him out of the fellowship... because he would not war with the sin in his life and so the church had to judge him and excommunicate him... and if he didn't respond to that, God would judge him in his mercy so he would repent...

            seems to me like these two guys were in a similar situation... brothers who would not repent of habitual sin....
            The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
              It sounds like Hymenaeus and Alexander did something Paul didn't like, so he turned them over to the authorities.

              To tell you the truth, 1 Timothy really sounds like a really bad high.

              It sounds like Paul is simply a self-righteous person getting off on himself and what he thinks is true.


              And continuing into chapter 2 - it seems the same.


              Personally, I think Paul is the worst thing to happen in the cause of Christ.
              so Paul didn't write that under the anointing of the Spirit?

              What about when Paul said Imitate me as I imitate Christ?

              if the Bible is the inspired word of God in it's entirety... then we cannot discredit what Paul said... and if we get a wrong spirit, then we need to examine and let the Holy Spirit bear witness to what Paul is saying
              The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

              Comment


              • #8
                This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1 Timothy 1:18-20)




                Hymenaeus and Alexander we do not know much about them, although they are mentioned elsewhere in these letters to Timothy. In the second letter, Hymenaeus is said to be one who taught that the resurrection was already past, overthrowing the faith of some, (2 Timothy. 2:18).

                Yet Paul does not say that Hymenaeus had begun by deviating from doctrine. Somewhere along the line, as Paul suggests here, he had not practiced truth; he had rejected conscience. That led him at last to the error he espoused.

                In the second letter to Timothy, Paul speaks of Alexander, the coppersmith, who, he says, had done him great harm. "Beware of him, Timothy," Paul says. "He will do you a lot of damage if you get mixed up with him," (2 Timothy 4:14-15).

                What harm he had done the apostle we do not know, but it was this Alexander evidently who had chosen not to act upon truth that he knew, had not followed with a careful, close heart to the Lord, but had rejected conscience and had ultimately "shipwrecked his faith."

                Paul says of these two, "I have delivered them to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

                This is not a single act, suddenly taken in the heat of anger. This is the result of a long course of spiritual deterioration which ends in the fourth step suggested by our Lord in Matthew 18.


                There in Matthew 18, the Lord says that step one is, if your brother has done something wrong, committed a sin, turned aside, go to him and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

                If he hears you, that is the end of the matter; you have gained your brother. But if he does not, then take two or three with you and go again. That is step two.

                If he hears them, fine; say no more to anybody else. But if he does not, there has to come the time when you tell it to the church. That is the third step. The whole church is to be engaged in trying to reach an erring brother or sister, someone who has turned aside from the faith.

                If he does not hear them, then the fourth step comes, which Paul calls, "delivering [him] unto Satan." Jesus said, "Let him be unto you as a publican and a sinner" (Matthew 18:17), i.e., as not even being a Christian.

                By this Paul means, put him back into the world; regard him as having denied by his actions the testimony of his words. This does not mean to have no contact with him.

                This is not an act of excommunication that affects his spiritual life. It is clear from this very passage that Paul intends this to be remedial -- so that these men may learn that testifying of truth but not acting on it is blasphemy.

                This is destroying the image of God in the eyes of others, making God look ridiculous because they are not consistent in the walk. So Paul says, "I have turned them over.

                Let Satan have his way with them. He will damage them, he will hurt them, he will destroy much of their lives, but in the process they will learn that the One who loves them, who can heal them, who can forgive them, is God alone."

                So this action is to be taken with the hope that they will eventually return to the Lord.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
                  It sounds like Hymenaeus and Alexander did something Paul didn't like, so he turned them over to the authorities.

                  To tell you the truth, 1 Timothy really sounds like a really bad high.

                  It sounds like Paul is simply a self-righteous person getting off on himself and what he thinks is true.


                  And continuing into chapter 2 - it seems the same.


                  Personally, I think Paul is the worst thing to happen in the cause of Christ.
                  I can't believe what you are saying You are actually making judgement against Paul who was called from God to spread the Gospel to the Gentiles.A person whom God used to write most of the N.T.

                  And personally I can't even image how someone would call Paul "the worst thing" to happen to the cause of Our Christ. When it is exactly who choose him. I recommend reading The Book of James on the subject of our untamed tongue.
                  " May The Peace of God Be With Us"
                  Jer:29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you....
                  <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
                  Knowledge Will Be Increased
                  In Christ Jesus, Darlene
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
                    It sounds like Hymenaeus and Alexander did something Paul didn't like, so he turned them over to the authorities.

                    To tell you the truth, 1 Timothy really sounds like a really bad high.

                    It sounds like Paul is simply a self-righteous person getting off on himself and what he thinks is true.


                    And continuing into chapter 2 - it seems the same.


                    Personally, I think Paul is the worst thing to happen in the cause of Christ.
                    I am sure Paul did much more to further the Kingdom of Christ than you, or I, have ever done.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lars777 View Post
                      This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1 Timothy 1:18-20)




                      Hymenaeus and Alexander we do not know much about them, although they are mentioned elsewhere in these letters to Timothy. In the second letter, Hymenaeus is said to be one who taught that the resurrection was already past, overthrowing the faith of some, (2 Timothy. 2:18).

                      Yet Paul does not say that Hymenaeus had begun by deviating from doctrine. Somewhere along the line, as Paul suggests here, he had not practiced truth; he had rejected conscience. That led him at last to the error he espoused.

                      In the second letter to Timothy, Paul speaks of Alexander, the coppersmith, who, he says, had done him great harm. "Beware of him, Timothy," Paul says. "He will do you a lot of damage if you get mixed up with him," (2 Timothy 4:14-15).

                      What harm he had done the apostle we do not know, but it was this Alexander evidently who had chosen not to act upon truth that he knew, had not followed with a careful, close heart to the Lord, but had rejected conscience and had ultimately "shipwrecked his faith."

                      Paul says of these two, "I have delivered them to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

                      This is not a single act, suddenly taken in the heat of anger. This is the result of a long course of spiritual deterioration which ends in the fourth step suggested by our Lord in Matthew 18.


                      There in Matthew 18, the Lord says that step one is, if your brother has done something wrong, committed a sin, turned aside, go to him and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

                      If he hears you, that is the end of the matter; you have gained your brother. But if he does not, then take two or three with you and go again. That is step two.

                      If he hears them, fine; say no more to anybody else. But if he does not, there has to come the time when you tell it to the church. That is the third step. The whole church is to be engaged in trying to reach an erring brother or sister, someone who has turned aside from the faith.

                      If he does not hear them, then the fourth step comes, which Paul calls, "delivering [him] unto Satan." Jesus said, "Let him be unto you as a publican and a sinner" (Matthew 18:17), i.e., as not even being a Christian.

                      By this Paul means, put him back into the world; regard him as having denied by his actions the testimony of his words. This does not mean to have no contact with him.

                      This is not an act of excommunication that affects his spiritual life. It is clear from this very passage that Paul intends this to be remedial -- so that these men may learn that testifying of truth but not acting on it is blasphemy.

                      This is destroying the image of God in the eyes of others, making God look ridiculous because they are not consistent in the walk. So Paul says, "I have turned them over.

                      Let Satan have his way with them. He will damage them, he will hurt them, he will destroy much of their lives, but in the process they will learn that the One who loves them, who can heal them, who can forgive them, is God alone."

                      So this action is to be taken with the hope that they will eventually return to the Lord.
                      Thank you for sharing
                      If one member suffers, all suffer together ESV, 1Co 12:26a

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.
                        Hymenaeus was known as a heretic. Both he and Alexander had pretty much rejected what was being taught in some way. I've read where some believe they were both excommunicated yet some believe they were in exclusion but whatever the case it was severe discipline. I believe to be delivered to Satan is the same as God turning people over to their sin when they don't listen:

                        Psalm 81:12
                        So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices.

                        Sin is of the world and to follow worldly ways is to follow the ways of Satan. They were turned over to the world of Satan and we all know that when we stop following God and start following sin, our lives become miserable. We are not under the protection of God anymore and the enemy can torment us to no end because we have chosen not to wear our armor of God. Without that armor we have no protection but to have this armor we must have faith and believe.

                        Live your life in such a
                        way that, when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says...

                        "Oh NO.... she's awake!"

                        ____________________________________________


                        Slug1: No, I have it so short I can't comb it to the side like before

                        cheechamia: ken...dear...honey...you have NO hair to comb on the side!!!
                        sigpic





                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
                          Personally, I think Paul is the worst thing to happen in the cause of Christ.
                          God doesn't make horrible blunders. He chose Paul for this purpose:
                          Acts 22:14-15
                          Then [Ananias said to Paul], 'The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. 15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.
                          NKJV

                          Jesus doesn't make horrible blunders. He chose Paul, and Paul completed the work that Jesus assigned to him.
                          Acts 9:15-16

                          15 But the Lord said to [Ananias concerning Paul], "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
                          NKJV
                          Jesus said to Paul:
                          Acts 26:16-18
                          6 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'
                          NKJV

                          The Holy Spirit doesn't make horrible blunders. He chose Paul for the work of the ministry to which he was appointed.
                          Acts 13:2
                          As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said,"Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
                          NKJV
                          Love In Christ,
                          Tanya






                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
                            It sounds like Hymenaeus and Alexander did something Paul didn't like, so he turned them over to the authorities.

                            To tell you the truth, 1 Timothy really sounds like a really bad high.

                            It sounds like Paul is simply a self-righteous person getting off on himself and what he thinks is true.


                            And continuing into chapter 2 - it seems the same.


                            Personally, I think Paul is the worst thing to happen in the cause of Christ.
                            One of the stranger posts I've come accross. What do you mean DM...specifically?
                            As thy days, so shall thy strength be - Deuteronomy 33:25

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                              It's late, I should be in bed asleep but I'm reading my Bible. I came upon this verse in 1 Timothy:

                              20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

                              But what does, "delivered them to satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme" mean?

                              Back to reading and I hope... sleep as well
                              Hi brother!

                              There are 3 commonly held viewpoints concerning "delivering unto Satan", all of which come from a 1st century viewpoint/mindset.

                              1. Excommunication as in the manner of a Jewish synagogue. To be "put out" of the synagogue at this time was equivalent to being placed outside the mercies of God (in Jewish thinking), and given over to Satan. No restoration was possible, once one was out...they were out for good.

                              2. As Satan was held to be the one who was the cause of all human pain and suffering (in the manner of Job), there is a school of thought that said that to "deliver one to Satan" meant to ask the church to pray that God would allow Satan to cause physical suffering in the person's life; that by this physical pain one would come to repentance (cf. Elymas the sorcerer in Acts 13).

                              I think however, that the third explanation is the most likely. This is:

                              3. At this time in the history of the church, a line of demarcation was clearly draw (in the thinking of the people). The Church was "God's territory" and the world was "Satan's territory". Therefore to be "delivered to Satan" was to be put out of fellowship with the church; which included shunning IAW Matt 18:17: "But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

                              Unlike being put out of a synagogue where no restoration was possible, one who was shunned by the church could be received back into full fellowship upon evidence of repentance. Incidentally, the instructions to Timothy not to be hasty in the laying on of hands speaks directly to this issue. In those days, one was received back into full fellowship by a laying on of hands and prayer. Paul is telling Timothy not to be too quick to receive one back simply because they say that they are penitent, but to see if they are in fact doing works that are in keeping with true repentance.

                              Based on the other writings of Paul, where (by inspiration of the Holy Spirit) he is seeking restoration of a sinning brother rather than punishment (Gal 6:1 et.al.), I believe that Paul is literally saying that he has put them out of fellowship with the church until they come to their senses and repent.

                              This once again would be in keeping with the thought that the Church was God's territory whereas the world was Satan's territory, as well as tying into his instructions to the Corinthian church regarding the one who had his father's wife (1 Cor 5...the whole thing).

                              Hope that helps, brother!
                              Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



                              ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


                              A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

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