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Where does the OT talk about sex before marriage?

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  • Where does the OT talk about sex before marriage?

    I see a lot of mentioning of Adultery (sex outside of marriage WHEN you're married) in there, but fornication (sex outside of marriage in general) is not in the OT as far as I can see.

    It definitely is mentioned in the NT a number of places, but where is sex before marriage said to be wrong in the OT?

    I'm sure it's there somewhere.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Colossians 3:17 View Post
    I see a lot of mentioning of Adultery (sex outside of marriage WHEN you're married) in there, but fornication (sex outside of marriage in general) is not in the OT as far as I can see.

    It definitely is mentioned in the NT a number of places, but where is sex before marriage said to be wrong in the OT?

    I'm sure it's there somewhere.
    It is not explicitedly stated but assumed and upheld by rabbinical teaching. todd

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    • #3
      Originally posted by valleybldr View Post
      It is not explicitedly stated but assumed and upheld by rabbinical teaching. todd
      I wish it was made more clear, even though it is made very clear in the NT.
      Last edited by VerticalReality; Oct 6th 2008, 12:31 PM. Reason: language

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      • #4
        The teaching is assumed throughout Scripture, though I'm not sure if it's ever explicitly stated as such.

        As Christians we are to conduct ourselves with an eternal mindset. We are to focus on the good and the eternal rather than the poor and the temporary. Love is both good and eternal. God willing, I'll have a wife one day. I love her. I want to sleep with her. I don't want to sleep with anyone but my wife. This doesn't change because I might not have met her yet, not when I'm thinking eternally.

        That's not Scripture, although most it is paraphrased from different verses. It is what God showed me about the subject, though.

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        • #5
          Deut 22:23ff explains what happens with fornication.

          -If the woman is unmarried but betrothed, and the "rape" is done in the city, then they both shall be killed, as she had the chance to call out. (vv. 23-24)
          -If done in the field, and she claims rape, then he is killed, as she couldn't call for help, and so it is presumed rape. Again, the assumption is that she is betrothed. (vv. 25-27)
          -If two people are found having sex outside marriage, they are forced to get married. (vv. 28-29)

          This is just one instance of the discussion of fornication (at least in view of the woman who is not married), so where people are getting the notion that the OT does not talk about fornication is beyond me.
          ~Clay

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Clay Blucher View Post
            Deut 22:23ff explains what happens with fornication.

            -If the woman is unmarried but betrothed, and the "rape" is done in the city, then they both shall be killed, as she had the chance to call out. (vv. 23-24)
            -If done in the field, and she claims rape, then he is killed, as she couldn't call for help, and so it is presumed rape. Again, the assumption is that she is betrothed. (vv. 25-27)
            -If two people are found having sex outside marriage, they are forced to get married. (vv. 28-29)

            This is just one instance of the discussion of fornication (at least in view of the woman who is not married), so where people are getting the notion that the OT does not talk about fornication is beyond me.
            Well, the first two are talking about rape.

            The 3rd one just says if you are caught having sex outside of marriage you have to get married. Doesn't even explicitly say it's sinful (even though we know it is).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Colossians 3:17 View Post
              I see a lot of mentioning of Adultery (sex outside of marriage WHEN you're married) in there, but fornication (sex outside of marriage in general) is not in the OT as far as I can see.

              It definitely is mentioned in the NT a number of places, but where is sex before marriage said to be wrong in the OT?

              I'm sure it's there somewhere.
              Jake: Joseph called sex before marriage, "...great wickedness, and sin against God" Gen 39:9.
              Jake

              What does the bible say?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Clydson View Post
                Jake: Joseph called sex before marriage, "...great wickedness, and sin against God" Gen 39:9.
                This verse could also be understood to refer to commiting adultery with Potiphar's wife.

                Either way, yes, sex is for married couples.

                "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Gen 2:24
                One, singular flesh. Not one flesh that is ripped apart and turned into one flesh again over and over until you find someone that you can live with, but a singular flesh made when a single man joins a single woman together to become one.

                The love that exists between a man and a woman is a mirror and a type of the love that God has for His Church. In keeping with this teaching that is clearly demonstrated throughout Scripture, the Text often refers to the worship of other gods as Spiritual Adultery. God hates this, whether we have done it before or after we've come into a relationship with Him. In a similar fashion sleeping with someone who is not your wife is physical adultery. God hates this, whether we have done it before or after we've come into a relationship with her.

                "Drink water from your own cistern, and running water from your own well. Should your fountains be dispersed abroad, Streams of water in the streets? Let them be only your own, And not for strnagers with you. Let your fountain be blessed, And rejoice with the wife of your youth. As a loving deer and a graceful doe, Let her breasts satisfy you at all times; And always be enraptured with her love. For why should you, my son, be enraptured by an immoral woman, And be embraced in the arms of a seductress?" Proverbs 5:15-20
                Last edited by renthead188; Oct 6th 2008, 05:05 AM. Reason: found something

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Clydson View Post
                  Jake: Joseph called sex before marriage, "...great wickedness, and sin against God" Gen 39:9.
                  One (not I) could argue the issue was adultery not fornication. When reading Torah it should be self-evident...we know it was not a good thing to found a non-virgin on your wedding night. Hmm, I wonder what that implies? Maybe Torah assumes some level of intelligence among its readers?

                  todd

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                  • #10
                    You all are preaching to the choir in this case. I am completely against sexual pleasure of any kind before marriage.

                    However, when I am meeting with non-Christians, or very liberal believers who may or may not be Christians, it helps to have things clearly noted. It is easy for many people to convince themselves certain things are OK because they aren't explicitly stated in scripture.

                    Me saying that it "should be understood" is not valid. I am just looking for clear references of it. Obviously the NT has many, so that's good.

                    Thanks for the help.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Colossians 3:17 View Post
                      I see a lot of mentioning of Adultery (sex outside of marriage WHEN you're married) in there, but fornication (sex outside of marriage in general) is not in the OT as far as I can see.

                      It definitely is mentioned in the NT a number of places, but where is sex before marriage said to be wrong in the OT?

                      I'm sure it's there somewhere.
                      Adultery is not specified in the O.T. as sex outside of marriage in those terms.
                      Take a look at Genesis....with Noah and his son uncovering his wife's nakedness and the result of a child.
                      Take a look at Judah having sex with Jacob's concubine.
                      There was and still are consequences of of sex out of marriage (adultery) and also sex before marriage.
                      Marriage including those who are virgins create a covenant with each other by the blood shed from being virgins.
                      It's there...you have to rightly divide God's word and apply it.
                      Or study what Jesus is speaking of and the consequences in the N.T.
                      It's the same as the O.T.
                      Seek and you shall find.
                      " May The Peace of God Be With Us"
                      Jer:29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you....
                      <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
                      Knowledge Will Be Increased
                      In Christ Jesus, Darlene
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cdo View Post
                        Adultery is not specified in the O.T. as sex outside of marriage in those terms.
                        Take a look at Genesis....with Noah and his son uncovering his wife's nakedness and the result of a child.
                        [I][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]/I]

                        I'm not sure what you are talking about with Noah and his son uncovering Noah's wife's nakedness. That's not what is says happened in my Bible. Rather, Noah's son uncovered Noah's nakedness and did something to him. Nothing is mentioned about a child, nor about Noah's wife.

                        Genesis 9
                        20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

                        21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

                        22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

                        23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

                        24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
                        Mommy to Brooke, Braden and Bristol

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by flybaby View Post
                          I'm not sure what you are talking about with Noah and his son uncovering Noah's wife's nakedness.
                          I'm sorry I meant the nakedness of Noah which is his wife.
                          That's not what is says happened in my Bible. Rather, Noah's son uncovered Noah's nakedness and did something to him.
                          Noah's nakedness was his wife,it was done to her.
                          Nothing is mentioned about a child, nor about Noah's wife.
                          verse 18 :And the sons of Noah,that went forth of the ark,were Shem and Ham,and Japheth;and Ham is the father of Canaan.
                          Look at what verse 22 says about Ham saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brethren without.Ham is the father of Canaan which is his own mothers son and Ham the father.There was 8 souls who was on the ark and 8 souls who came out of the ark

                          Genesis 9
                          20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

                          21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

                          22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

                          23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

                          24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
                          Yes,Noah knew what Ham had done to his wife.
                          If you look at verse 26 Noah blessed Shem and put Canaan as his servant. v 27Noah blessed Japheth and Canaan shall be his servant.
                          As in v. 25 Where Noah cursed Canaan and;a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethen. here These are Canaan's brethren, the same mother,not the same father.
                          Look at 10:1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah,Shem,Ham;and Japheth:
                          I hope this helps
                          " May The Peace of God Be With Us"
                          Jer:29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you....
                          <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
                          Knowledge Will Be Increased
                          In Christ Jesus, Darlene
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            That's not the way I see the passage laying out, but I can sort of see why you would believe that. This is the first time I have ever heard the passage being interpretted that way.
                            Mommy to Brooke, Braden and Bristol

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by flybaby View Post
                              That's not the way I see the passage laying out, but I can sort of see why you would believe that. This is the first time I have ever heard the passage being interpretted that way.
                              Hey Flybaby,
                              Can you give me your way of how you understand it to be?
                              It's ok, we don't have to agree, I just wondering.
                              Darlene
                              " May The Peace of God Be With Us"
                              Jer:29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you....
                              <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
                              Knowledge Will Be Increased
                              In Christ Jesus, Darlene
                              sigpic

                              Comment

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