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Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

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  • #46
    Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

    Originally posted by MoreMercy View Post
    Hi Firstfruits,


    Do you mean: "the corrections and fulfillment of Christ" -vs- the law's' of Moses ?


    Father bless and have mercy on us.
    I am talking about fulfilling or keeping the law law of Christ vs the law that God gave to Israel through Moses.

    Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

    Firstfruits

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
      Law of Moses is completely appropriate:


      Jos_8:31 As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.

      Jos_8:32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.

      Jos_23:6 Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right hand or to the left;

      Jdg_4:11 Now Heber the Kenite, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.

      1Ki_2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

      2Ki_14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

      2Ki_23:25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.

      2Ch_23:18 Also Jehoiada appointed the offices of the house of the LORD by the hand of the priests the Levites, whom David had distributed in the house of the LORD, to offer the burnt offerings of the LORD, as it is written in the law of Moses, with rejoicing and with singing, as it was ordained by David.

      2Ch_30:16 And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.

      Ezr_3:2 Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God.

      Ezr_7:6 This Ezra went up from Babylon; and he was a ready scribe in the law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given: and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of the LORD his God upon him.

      Neh_8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

      Dan_9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

      Dan_9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

      Mal_4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

      Luk_2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

      Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

      Joh_7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

      Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

      Act_15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

      Act_28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

      1Co_9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

      Law of Moses - 22 times in the bible


      Jos_24:26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.

      Neh_8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

      Neh_8:18 Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.

      Neh_10:28 And the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the porters, the singers, the Nethinims, and all they that had separated themselves from the people of the lands unto the law of God, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one having knowledge, and having understanding;

      Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

      Rom_7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

      Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

      Law of God - 7 times in the bible

      Apparently God has no issue calling the law "the law of Moses", nor should we.
      Amen!! Thanks ewq,

      Firstfruits

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

        Originally posted by david View Post
        To me I think the law of Moses was the Word of God himself before he became the life-giving spirit. After the Word (Jesus) came down and died and resurrected, he became the life-giving spirit (1co 15.45). So you can say that Jesus changed from being the law of Moses into the law of Christ. The difference between the law of Moses and the Law of Christ is that the law of Moses killed people (because they could not keep it) but the law of Christ enlivened people (because his sacrifice made it able to give life). The former could not give life; the latter could.
        Thank you David,

        I would just like to add that before Jesus came, the law was the means of being made righteous/holy with God.

        Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

        Firstfruits

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
          I am talking about fulfilling or keeping the law law of Christ vs the law that God gave to Israel through Moses.
          Thank you, Firstfruits.
          I only have three more questions now, if you will indulge me further.
          Please forgive my tendency to be so topically dependent upon God's word to prove what is good, true and worthy for me to hold on to.
          I am a topical study zealot !

          1: Would you consider obedience to Jesus's words in Matt 22:36-40 on the "greatest command" would you consider our obedience to that be fulfilling or keeping both the law-(singular) of Christ and at the same time fulfilling or keeping the law's'-(plural) of Moses... Or would you consider them two separate things, and both are not fulfilled or kept by our obedience to Christ's words in Matt 22:36-40 or not ?

          note: Christ's same words also found in Mark 12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-27

          2: But more importantly: would you define the word "love" as used by Christ in those passages Matt 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-27 would you consider that word "love" used in those passages defined by John's definition of "love" found in John 14:15 or not ?


          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
          Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
          3: And since you also introduced Gal 6:2 in your reply to me, what would you consider the words
          "one another's" found in Gal 6:2 defined by... Would you define "one another's" found in Gal 6:2 defined by brethren and would you define brethren by using Christ's words found in Matt 12:50 and Mark 3:35 or not ?


          Father bless and have mercy on us.
          Last edited by MoreMercy; Oct 20th 2011, 12:03 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

            Originally posted by MoreMercy View Post
            Thank you, Firstfruits.
            I only have three more questions now, if you will indulge me further.
            Please forgive my tendency to be so topically dependent upon God's word to prove what is good, true and worthy for me to hold on to.
            I am a topical study zealot !

            1: Would you consider obedience to Jesus's words in Matt 22:36-40 on the "greatest command" would you consider our obedience to that be fulfilling or keeping both the law-(singular) of Christ and at the same time fulfilling or keeping the law's'-(plural) of Moses... Or would you consider them two separate things, and both are not fulfilled or kept by our obedience to Christ's words in Matt 22:36-40 or not ?

            note: Christ's same words also found in Mark 12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-27

            2: But more importantly: would you define the word "love" as used by Christ in those passages Matt 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-27 would you consider that word "love" used in those passages defined by John's definition of "love" found in John 14:15 or not ?



            3: And since you also introduced Gal 6:2 in your reply to me, what would you consider the words
            "one another's" found in Gal 6:2 defined by... Would you define "one another's" found in Gal 6:2 defined by brethren and would you define brethren by using Christ's words found in Matt 12:50 and Mark 3:35 or not?


            Father bless and have mercy on us.
            I would say that If I love God and love my neighbour that I was not keeping all the laws of Moses, however If I loved God and love my neoghbour I am fulfilling all the law of Christ.

            The love commanded by Christ has the foundation in "HOW" we are to love, which is as he has commanded " As I Have Love You"

            Jn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

            Jn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

            Does that answer your questions?

            Forgot you third point. Yes I would apply Brethren.

            Firstfruits

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
              I would say that If I love God and love my neighbour that I was not keeping all the laws of Moses, however If I loved God and love my neoghbour I am fulfilling all the law of Christ.

              The love commanded by Christ has the foundation in "HOW" we are to love, which is as he has commanded " As I Have Love You"

              Jn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

              Jn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

              Does that answer your questions?

              Forgot you third point. Yes I would apply Brethren.

              Firstfruits
              Yes that answers my questions, thank you Firstfruits.

              Although I do not understand why you exclude the law and the prophets as also being fulfilled in question #1 of mine, when Christ included them as being fulfilled in Matt 22, Mark 12 and in Luke 10.


              Father bless and have mercy on us.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                Originally posted by MoreMercy View Post
                Yes that answers my questions, thank you Firstfruits.

                Although I do not understand why you exclude the law and the prophets as also being fulfilled in question #1 of mine, when Christ included them as being fulfilled in Matt 22, Mark 12 and in Luke 10.

                Father bless and have mercy on us.
                As with The law of Christ that is all that is required. The whole of what God requires is fulfilled with love.

                Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

                Firstfruits

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                  We can behold the transformation from the law to grace in (John 8:5&7)

                  The law is judgment without mercy with no chance to repent.
                  But grace is mercy without judgment, and mercy rejoices against judgment unto repentance.
                  And they went out and preached that men should repent. (Mark 6:12)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                    Originally posted by Longsufferer View Post
                    We can behold the transformation from the law to grace in (John 8:5&7)

                    The law is judgment without mercy with no chance to repent.
                    But grace is mercy without judgment, and mercy rejoices against judgment unto repentance.
                    Thank you Longsufferer,

                    God bless you!

                    Firstfruits

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                      Firstfruits, a couple of questions:
                      1. Do you believe that Jesus is God?
                      2. Do you believe that obeying the 'law of Christ' makes you righteous?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                        Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
                        Firstfruits, a couple of questions:
                        1. Do you believe that Jesus is God?
                        2. Do you believe that obeying the 'law of Christ' makes you righteous?
                        With regards to the following scripture and many others concerning Jesus, the answer to your first question is yes.

                        Is 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

                        Jn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

                        Jn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

                        In answer to question 2, by faith in Christ we are declared righteous.

                        Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

                        Firstfruits

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                          With regards to the following scripture and many others concerning Jesus, the answer to your first question is yes.
                          In answer to question 2, by faith in Christ we are declared righteous.
                          Thank you. We actually agree on these two points.
                          I notice that you used John 5:19-20 in your answer. That being the case, I must assume that you also believe what those verses say, that all that Jesus said and did came directly from the Father.
                          So, logically, the law of Christ then would also be the law of God, since Christ IS God, and spoke only what He heard from the Father. Do you agree with that?

                          Also, you keep saying that the extent of the 'law of Christ' is to love God and neighbor as He did.
                          Can you explain exactly HOW Jesus loved us, and HOW he loved the Father?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                            Originally posted by Kahtar View Post
                            Thank you. We actually agree on these two points.
                            I notice that you used John 5:19-20 in your answer. That being the case, I must assume that you also believe what those verses say, that all that Jesus said and did came directly from the Father.
                            So, logically, the law of Christ then would also be the law of God, since Christ IS God, and spoke only what He heard from the Father. Do you agree with that?

                            Also, you keep saying that the extent of the 'law of Christ' is to love God and neighbor as He did.
                            Can you explain exactly HOW Jesus loved us, and HOW he loved the Father?
                            I agree with your first point.

                            The following should address your second point, let me know if you agree or not.

                            Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

                            Jn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

                            Jn 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

                            1 Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
                            1 Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

                            1 Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
                            1 Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
                            1 Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

                            Firstfruits

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                              I agree with your first point.

                              The following should address your second point, let me know if you agree or not.

                              Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

                              Jn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

                              Jn 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

                              1 Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
                              1 Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

                              1 Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
                              1 Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
                              1 Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

                              Firstfruits
                              So, from these verses you listed, one can see that the way Christ loved us was by laying down His life for us, to be the propitiation for our sins. So, if we are to love as He loved us, then, we must lay our lives down for Him or for others. I have not yet given my life, physically, for anyone, have you? Clearly not. So, either we have both missed the boat, or there is something more. 1 John 3:17 suggests that meeting our brother's need may be included. What do you think?
                              Is there more to Christ's love than dying, and meeting our need?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

                                Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                                Why would they make your head spin, it states clearly that the law was 400 years later, which was at Mount Sinai? If it was from the begining, then Abraham would have had it, but from what is written he did not.

                                Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

                                Firstfruits
                                God vs. God makes my head spin because Jesus Himself said a house divided can not stand. I do not understand your desire to pit God against Himself.
                                Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                                Comment

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