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  • The Unity of the Faith

    With all the current denominations and sects we have of Christianity how do we deal with these scriptures?

    Rom 16:17-18

    17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
    18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.



    1 Cor 1:10-13

    10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
    11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
    12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
    13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

    1 Cor 3:1-5
    And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
    4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
    5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?


    Here's the real dilemma of all those who claim to truly love Jesus,how many are concerned with fulfilling one of Jesus's last requests?

    John 17:20-23

    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


    WOW! Maybe the world doesn't know that The Father has sent Jesus because we are divided into denominations and have falling into the trap the Apostle Paul foresaw:

    Acts 20:28-31

    28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    ( not only are they not concerned with the prayer of John 17 they actually DIVIDE that which Jesus bought with his own blood! WOE unto them)

    29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
    31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    Paul was warning the elders of Ephesus how and why division would occur.
    It made him WEEP but we are happy to post little polls that determine which little sect we belong to. We have even made "non-denominational" a denomination! That's no surprise though because the Corinthians even had a divisive sect that claimed they were of "Christ" Paul's response was..Is Christ divided?
    Last edited by The Preacher; Oct 10th 2008, 02:37 AM. Reason: used "We" instead of "With' for the first word.

  • #2
    I don’t think we will ever join as one “denomination” with everyone following the same sort of service.
    This is not to say that we will not one day abandon denomination when He returns.

    I know what you are saying and I have thought a bout it – although not as much as you.

    Perhaps we could have a unity day – a million saints march – to show the world that we agree on whom is our Lord and what he has done for us.
    Not a prayer day for the nation – or even world peace, but a prayer day for the lost and for unity in the body.

    That even with denominational differences, we are one in the Lord.
    One body and He is our head.

    Richard

    Comment


    • #3
      Well… a Million Saints March would just sound conceited to the world.
      It would just be another one of those marches anyway…

      How about Unity in Christ?

      Naaaah… That won’t work either.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don’t think we will ever join as one “denomination” with everyone following the same sort of service.
        This is not to say that we will not one day abandon denomination when He returns.


        What do you think he will say about our differences and disagreements when he returns that we can't seek in prayer to hear from him now? Could it be that the reason we see so many sects and denominations is that the leaders aren't really building God's kingdom but their own? I meet with Clayt Sonmore( one of the original founders of full gospel business man's) a few months back. He was William Branham's best friend before he died.( he had some interesting thing's to say about branham's doctrine but we won't go there in this item) He was also very close friends with Leonard Ravenhill. He told me that ravenhill separated from Rick Joyner( The final quest) and Mike Bickel( International house of prayer) because the whole kansas city group was getting into a "kingdom building " spirit that used man's methods and programs to build their own little fiefdoms in the name of Jesus. he said God would judge all that attempted to build his Kingdom useing man's methods. I wonder if this" kingdom building spirit" is isolated to Kansas city?

        Comment


        • #5
          The church I used to frequent with my Brother was one of those kingdoms.
          There were sermons about polling percentages and filling the pews.
          (they’re still in their building program – creating a whole campus – to “serve” the community)

          I got tired of the errors coming from the pulpit. Things anyone familiar with the Bible should know.
          Like: “only Jesus knows the day and the hour of His return.”
          "Paul wrote the Book of Acts."
          "Paul learned the gospel from the disciples before he began his ministry."

          I left because of the private kingdom thing and the errors.
          My Brother no longer goes either.

          So, the kingdom building spirit is alive and well in Arizona too.

          Actually, all 501(c)(3) Churches are government regulated organizations having to abide by the wishes of the government in order to maintain tax exempt status.
          So much for: prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
          I could give you a link, but you can Google it yourself. 501c3 churches

          It’s a sad state of affairs and I know Jesus is not happy about it.
          Denominational differences, 501c3, kingdom building by and for the flesh, and the gospel of prosperity are all a problem.

          All I can do is pray.
          I am glad that I am not forced to observe and practice according to man’s prescribed dogma.
          At this point I see no reversal – returning to the early church.

          A day is coming when the differences between true Christians will pale in the shadow of actual persecution.
          Perhaps then, we’ll focus on He who unites us – rather than our divided house.

          Richard
          Last edited by Richard H; Oct 11th 2008, 12:14 AM. Reason: Added missing quote marks

          Comment


          • #6
            The body od Christ..every member funtioning

            I got tired of the errors coming from the pulpit.


            I can feel you. There is something inside every maturing believer that longs to function in ministry to others. It is how the body of Christ was intended to function. Sadly what happens in most meeting is that the only member that functions is the pastor with, like you said, a very shallow and superficial message. Perhaps the choir or worship team functions to some degree and if you are very lucky the pastor might even let you share a five minute testimony!
            This is a far cry from :

            1 Cor 14:26
            How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, EVERY ONE of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

            We are told here what the purpose of the five ministry is:

            Eph 4:11-15

            11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
            12 FOR the perfecting of the saints, FOR the work of the ministry, FOR the edifying of the body of Christ:
            13 TILL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
            14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
            15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

            The FORs clearly describe that ministry is supposed to mature the saints and edify the body. The TILL ,which by the way means the end of one thing and the begining of another describes the destination they are required to take us to. Sadly,many find it in their best interest to keep you in immaturity so you will need them and all they want from you is your tithe check. THIS is the kingdom building spirit.
            I'm glad you are getting stir crazy listening to the same old sermons..it's a healthy sign that growth is taking place. But watch out..when you grow more mature than your pastor expect the persecution to start rolling in!

            It is events and situations like these that keep us in division. I heard a man from China who we called "China George" He was a pastor and the communists locked him away for thirty years as they did to all the pastors who wouldn't conform to the state. He said it was the best thing that could ever have happened to the church because then EVERY member began to function and minister. It was the power tripping pastors that were keeping them back.Once they were removed revival took place.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Richard H View Post
              I don’t think we will ever join as one “denomination” with everyone following the same sort of service.
              This is not to say that we will not one day abandon denomination when He returns.

              I know what you are saying and I have thought a bout it – although not as much as you.

              Perhaps we could have a unity day – a million saints march – to show the world that we agree on whom is our Lord and what he has done for us.
              Not a prayer day for the nation – or even world peace, but a prayer day for the lost and for unity in the body.

              That even with denominational differences, we are one in the Lord.
              One body and He is our head.

              Richard
              I understand that we should be one in the Lord, but we know that is not the case, we are not of one mind, we do not speak the same thing. Paul therefore asks this question;

              1 Cor 1:13 Is ChrIst divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

              Mark Heard sang a song entiltled "Schitzophrenia" Christ does not have that problem.

              Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
              Jn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

              We endevour to do what Christ has taught/commanded but is it worth it if we cannot do that which makes us one with God by being one with each other?

              Firstfruits

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post

                We endevour to do what Christ has taught/commanded but is it worth it if we cannot do that which makes us one with God by being one with each other?

                Firstfruits
                Sure. Focus on pleasing God and let the rest of fall where it may. Babylon is alive and well but it's end will come. todd

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by valleybldr View Post
                  Sure. Focus on pleasing God and let the rest of fall where it may. Babylon is alive and well but it's end will come. todd
                  Paul tells us that if there is division it means we are still carnal.

                  1 Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be No divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

                  1 Cor 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

                  How can we therefore focus on pleasing God when our division causes us to be enemies with God?

                  Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

                  What ever happened to the new man?

                  Firstfruits

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Moving this to Contro, where Richard H wisely suggested it should be!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
                      What do you think he will say about our differences and disagreements when he returns that we can't seek in prayer to hear from him now? Could it be that the reason we see so many sects and denominations is that the leaders aren't really building God's kingdom but their own? I meet with Clayt Sonmore( one of the original founders of full gospel business man's) a few months back. He was William Branham's best friend before he died.( he had some interesting thing's to say about branham's doctrine but we won't go there in this item) He was also very close friends with Leonard Ravenhill. He told me that ravenhill separated from Rick Joyner( The final quest) and Mike Bickel( International house of prayer) because the whole kansas city group was getting into a "kingdom building " spirit that used man's methods and programs to build their own little fiefdoms in the name of Jesus. he said God would judge all that attempted to build his Kingdom useing man's methods. I wonder if this" kingdom building spirit" is isolated to Kansas city?
                      [/font]
                      It certainly isn't! But this raises an important point - do you agree that it's often RIGHT for godly men like Leonard ravenhill to leave man-based groups or denominations? And that that is what happened at the Reformation and is the reason for MANY splits in churches (though certainly not all)? There CANNOT be unity in those situations where false doctrine is propagated and/or the ideas of men take precedence over the word of God - what is a godly man or woman to do in such circumstances but leave?!?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                        Paul tells us that if there is division it means we are still carnal.

                        1 Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be No divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

                        1 Cor 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

                        How can we therefore focus on pleasing God when our division causes us to be enemies with God?

                        Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

                        What ever happened to the new man?

                        Firstfruits
                        Not all division is carnal:-

                        For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognised among you. 1 Cor 11:19 NKJV

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                          Moving this to Contro, where Richard H wisely suggested it should be!
                          Can you please explain why that which we should all strive for according to the following is controversial?

                          Phil 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

                          Phil 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

                          Phil 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

                          1 Pet 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

                          Firstfruits

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                            What ever happened to the new man?

                            Firstfruits
                            They're out there. Be a fruit inspector and look for believers/communities that have proven track records of bearing positive results. todd

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                              Can you please explain why that which we should all strive for according to the following is controversial?

                              Phil 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

                              Phil 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

                              Phil 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

                              1 Pet 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

                              Firstfruits
                              The unity you are speaking of is biblical unity and should indeed be pursued by all Christians. However, when we start applying this to the existence of denominations, then ecumenism comes in as the solution - and that IS controversial, because it so often advocates a lowest common denominator approach and is believed by many to be the aim of Antichrist - the creation of One Church as part of One Religion (syncretism) in the end times, which will persecute the true church.

                              Comment

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