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When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

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  • When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

    My question for this particular method of interpretation is this:
    There are MANY MANY MANY places in the Bible where the "plain sense" seems to be ignored.... ESPECIALLY by those who prescribe to this viewpoint. Why is that?

    A couple examples would be:
    John, in Revelation, says he is writing TO the seven churches in Asia, and is warning them of thnigs that must SOON take place, for the time is AT HAND. The "plain sense" of scripture would be, exactly that. How does this get turned into 2000+ years in the future?

    Jesus said the following things TO his disciples: (From Matthew 24)
    "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
    "....you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled..."
    "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake...."
    ".....Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,...."
    "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it......"
    "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

    So, I'm puzzled.
    Because to me, the "plain sense" of the text indicates exactly what is being said, & does not indicate a far-future generation. There should be NO confusion as to whom Jesus was speaking, & what the context is / was.

    How & why is there a need to "Seek another sense," or interpretation, in these instances?

    Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    _______________________________________________
    There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

  • #2
    Easy Answer

    because sometimes "plain sense" disturbs our predefined comforting theologies.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Emanate View Post
      because sometimes "plain sense" disturbs our predefined comforting theologies.


      Elloquently stated, I must say!
      Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
      _______________________________________________
      There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by markdrums View Post
        My question for this particular method of interpretation is this:
        There are MANY MANY MANY places in the Bible where the "plain sense" seems to be ignored.... ESPECIALLY by those who prescribe to this viewpoint. Why is that?

        A couple examples would be:
        John, in Revelation, says he is writing TO the seven churches in Asia, and is warning them of thnigs that must SOON take place, for the time is AT HAND. The "plain sense" of scripture would be, exactly that. How does this get turned into 2000+ years in the future?

        Jesus said the following things TO his disciples: (From Matthew 24)
        "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
        "....you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled..."
        "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake...."
        ".....Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,...."
        "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it......"
        "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, THIS generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

        So, I'm puzzled.
        Because to me, the "plain sense" of the text indicates exactly what is being said, & does not indicate a far-future generation. There should be NO confusion as to whom Jesus was speaking, & what the context is / was.

        How & why is there a need to "Seek another sense," or interpretation, in these instances?

        What does "soon" mean to God? Or "at hand"? Then please go over the things that Jesus et al said were "at hand" and would happen "soon" and explain how whose things were fulfilled using the "plain sense" of Scripture. Jesus said the sign of His return would be the sun and moon going dark and that all the nations would mourn when they see him. When has that happened? I don't recall anything about any abnormal celestial events associated with 70 AD.

        So the "plain sense" of those passages is that our understanding of "soon" and "at hand" is flawed.
        ----------------------------------------------
        When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

        Comment


        • #5
          Instead of trying interpretation, why not ask God for revelation?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
            Instead of trying interpretation, why not ask God for revelation?
            Why can't the revelation come through proper interpretation?
            ----------------------------------------------
            When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

            Comment


            • #7
              Compared to eternity...

              In light of eternity, where Jesus came from 2,000 years would be a drop in a bucket. People in the OT used to live hundreds of years... so to them, being 100 would be like us being teenagers by comparison.

              It used to be before modern transportation, "soon" was to get from one city to the next within days, rather than hours.

              And as I heard someone say once, "Jesus may not come soon to get everybody, but He may come soon for you."

              I have no idea if any of this is plain sense but... it's a thought.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
                Why can't the revelation come through proper interpretation?
                Exactly. Most people are too lazy to put for the effort to properly study scripture. Biblical hermeneutics is a dirty word to some. You can't read Scripture prima facie, and claim you've properly understood it (much less applied it). If we did that with all Scripture, we'd be literally plucking out people's eyes, and thinking Jesus was going to sprout leaves (since He did claim to be The Vine, lol). The gospel may be a "simple" message, but the truth of Scripture is vast and deep and deserves our diligent study to be properly understood and applied.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The wars and rumours of wars time was a section of time that was to come to pass - but the end was not yet.
                  That whole section was to be a be not troubled time.

                  I see this as
                  World War I
                  World War II

                  then a time of no world wars

                  and then the time of the beginning of sorrows
                  as in nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom - for World War III

                  Iraq against - Egypt - Israel
                  all before the time of the man of sin


                  Revelation I see as being given - as a whole bunch of information -so as to reveal the parts of the end within it that will happen quickly.
                  such as -the third woe
                  earthquake
                  Jesus is coming quickly


                  On the mount Jesus referred to the words of Daniel. We are to tie what He said into the prophecy that Daniel wrote.
                  We must read the book of Daniel as to the abomonation of desolation time.


                  Jesus told His generation that they would not see a sign from heaven - and would only see the sign of Jonas, yet the endtime people will see signs in heaven and on the earth.
                  http://prophecyinsights.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm going to ask something in all honesty. Not to cause division, not to sound smart, and not to show a lack of faith.

                    What does the plainest interpretation of the Old Testament say about Jesus?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by *Hope* View Post
                      Exactly. Most people are too lazy to put for the effort to properly study scripture. Biblical hermeneutics is a dirty word to some. You can't read Scripture prima facie, and claim you've properly understood it (much less applied it). If we did that with all Scripture, we'd be literally plucking out people's eyes, and thinking Jesus was going to sprout leaves (since He did claim to be The Vine, lol). The gospel may be a "simple" message, but the truth of Scripture is vast and deep and deserves our diligent study to be properly understood and applied.
                      Who says obtaining revelation doesn't require studying? Or that it means taking things at face value?

                      I used to believe in "Scripture interprets Scripture." Until I ran up against its obvious limitations (and you can see readily what those are by the way people go around and around and around arguing about certain texts).

                      I now believe that Scripture confirms Scripture, because God's Word never contradicts itself, and His principles and truth do not change, and they are woven throughout His whole Word. When I study something, and I find a passage that I do not understand, and ask God, and He explains it to me, then I can usually find Scripture after Scripture after Scripture that confirms it, and backs it up, and deepens it, plain as day. It's digging up treasure after treasure out of the riches of His Word. That is life to me. And isn't that what His Word is? Spirit and life?

                      That's just my

                      And maybe that just doesn't work for everyone, but it certainly works just fine for me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by *Hope* View Post
                        Exactly. Most people are too lazy to put for the effort to properly study scripture.
                        'No verse of Scripture yields its meaning to lazy people.' Arthur W. Pink

                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                          What does the plainest interpretation of the Old Testament say about Jesus?
                          Can you be more specific? That question is extremely open-ended the way you worded it.
                          ----------------------------------------------
                          When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
                            Can you be more specific? That question is extremely open-ended the way you worded it.
                            I'd be interested in that myself ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
                              Who says obtaining revelation doesn't require studying? Or that it means taking things at face value?
                              My problem with "revelation" is when somebody comes along and claims "the Spirit showed me thus and so" and they offer some outlandish stuff that they seriously expect the rest of us to just accept at face value because it "comes straight from God". Never mind if it contradicts a plain-English (or Greek or whatever) reading of the Scriptures that they just didn't get around to bothering with. "Revelation" is too open-ended. Now, if somebody receives extra information that does indeed conform to the Scriptures, then I'll give it consideration. But when God has already spent thousands of years carefully giving us His unchanging Words for us to study 24/7 anytime we decide to get out of our recliner and crack the Bible open, I see no reason why He's going to give somebody a shortcut to avoid having to study and then expect the rest of us to just blindly accept it.
                              Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
                              I used to believe in "Scripture interprets Scripture." Until I ran up against its obvious limitations (and you can see readily what those are by the way people go around and around and around arguing about certain texts).
                              Other people being wrong about the Scriptures doesn't have to come between me and my Bible.
                              Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
                              I now believe that Scripture confirms Scripture, because God's Word never contradicts itself
                              I can agree with that.
                              Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
                              and His principles and truth do not change, and they are woven throughout His whole Word. When I study something, and I find a passage that I do not understand, and ask God, and He explains it to me, then I can usually find Scripture after Scripture after Scripture that confirms it, and backs it up, and deepens it, plain as day. It's digging up treasure after treasure out of the riches of His Word. That is life to me. And isn't that what His Word is? Spirit and life?
                              OK, if that's what you're calling "revelation", to me that's just good, solid studying. I'm certainly not trying to diminish your approach, the way you just described it sounds perfectly sound to me. We might just have a different understanding of what you meant by "Revelation".
                              Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
                              That's just my

                              And maybe that just doesn't work for everyone, but it certainly works just fine for me.
                              As long as Scripture is the plumb line for everything else, then we're just fine.

                              By the way, I have had very similar experiences, where one passage of the Bible after another keeps shedding more light on an issue at hand. It's an exhilarating experience. I experienced it last spring about the Rapture, and I also experienced it regarding Islam almost two years ago. There have been other issues as well, but those are the two biggest ones.
                              ----------------------------------------------
                              When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

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