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Does this keep Calvies (and Minnies) happy?

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  • Does this keep Calvies (and Minnies) happy?

    The atonement is universal. Yes?

    So, does this keep Calvies (and Minnies) happy?





    Cyberseeker
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  • #2
    I love this!!!!!!!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
      The atonement is universal. Yes?
      Cyberseeker
      When you say that atonement is universal, do you mean that every man will be saved? This is how I understand universal atonement.

      Many Blessings,
      RW

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RogerW View Post
        When you say that atonement is universal, do you mean that every man will be saved? This is how I understand universal atonement.

        Many Blessings,
        RW
        I have the same question as Roger.... I'm curious as to what you consider 'universal atonement'.....
        Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
        ------------------------------------------------
        Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
        ------------------------------------------------
        The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
        Jeremiah 31:3

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
          I have the same question as Roger.... I'm curious as to what you consider 'universal atonement'.....

          Ditto... And I also have a problem with the "7 steps...'' Making salvation like a diet or personal improvement plan...
          "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
          Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
          ... there are few who find it."


          -----------------------------------------------

          * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

          The New American Standard Bible®,
          Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
          1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
          Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

          Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
            Ditto... And I also have a problem with the "7 steps...'' Making salvation like a diet or personal improvement plan...
            Er, it's 6, isn't it?

            But they're all gloriously true - for EVERY believer! In that sense, yes - I agree - the atonement IS universal - for EVERY believer in EVERY time!!!!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RogerW View Post
              When you say that atonement is universal, do you mean that every man will be saved? This is how I understand universal atonement.

              Many Blessings,
              RW
              By universal I mean ...

              And He is the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins, and not for ours alone but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
              (1 John 2:2 amp)


              ... but will every man will be saved? Good question. Hence the steps.
              "Your name and renown
              is the desire of our hearts."
              (Isaiah 26:8)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Redeemed by Grace
                ... like a diet or personal improvement plan...
                Have another look. They are all Gods steps except #5

                But if you want to run up and down as well, you'll be an eighteen year-old in the resurrection.

                Cyber
                "Your name and renown
                is the desire of our hearts."
                (Isaiah 26:8)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
                  By universal I mean ...

                  And He is the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins, and not for ours alone but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
                  (1 John 2:2 amp)

                  ... but will every man will be saved? Good question. Hence the steps.
                  Greetings Cyberseeker,

                  I'm not sure you answered my question by posting 1Jo 2:2. This is an interesting verse. In saying Christ's death atones for the sins of the whole world, do you believe "whole world" means every single human? If "whole world" does mean every human, then of course every single human ever born would be saved. Is this what you mean, and what you believe 1Jo 2:2 tells us?

                  Many Blessings,
                  RW

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                    Er, it's 6, isn't it?

                    But they're all gloriously true - for EVERY believer! In that sense, yes - I agree - the atonement IS universal - for EVERY believer in EVERY time!!!!!!
                    Your are right... Brain saw 6, finger typed 7...
                    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
                    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
                    ... there are few who find it."


                    -----------------------------------------------

                    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

                    The New American Standard Bible®,
                    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
                    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
                    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

                    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cyberseeker View Post
                      Have another look. They are all Gods steps except #5

                      But if you want to run up and down as well, you'll be an eighteen year-old in the resurrection.

                      Cyber

                      Faith comes from God... so to the steps in point - all steps are from God... I guess my question is as with Roger, are you calling this universal atonement to all men ever created?


                      Scripture is clear that it is not every man though.
                      "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
                      Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
                      ... there are few who find it."


                      -----------------------------------------------

                      * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

                      The New American Standard Bible®,
                      Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
                      1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
                      Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

                      Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        but will every man will be saved? Good question. Hence the steps.
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------

                        I believe Jesus answered those words with these teachings......


                        Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

                        Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will
                        seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

                        For many are called, but few [are] chosen.


                        When God saves you : He starts it
                        and He finishes it...
                        Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                        ------------------------------------------------
                        Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                        ------------------------------------------------
                        The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                        Jeremiah 31:3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                          Greetings Cyberseeker,

                          I'm not sure you answered my question by posting 1Jo 2:2. This is an interesting verse. In saying Christ's death atones for the sins of the whole world, do you believe "whole world" means every single human? If "whole world" does mean every human, then of course every single human ever born would be saved. Is this what you mean, and what you believe 1Jo 2:2 tells us?

                          Many Blessings,
                          RW
                          I'm not Cyberseeker but I believe Jesus paid the debt for ALL the sins of ALL mankind with His death. Whether we accept that payment or not is our choice.

                          I Timothy 4
                          10 - For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.


                          II Peter 3
                          9 - The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
                          I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
                          - Mahatma Gandhi



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Vhayes
                            I believe Jesus paid the debt for ALL the sins of ALL mankind with His death. Whether we accept that payment or not is our choice.
                            Exactly VH!

                            Misunderstanding exists in Calvinist logic relating to 'limited atonement' and this is what the diagram explains.

                            Explaining away New (and old) Testament scripture teaching that Messiah would bring universal atonement to the World, Calvinists ask the question, "Does that mean all people will be saved?" I have heard the charge many times that Arminians are inconsistent – that there are only two possible positions. Either 1John 2:2 doesn’t mean what it says (the Calvinist position) or all people will eventually be saved. (Universalism)

                            But it is consistent to say atonement is universal yet only those who appropriate it actually receive.

                            My diagram shows how atonement works. Here it is using 'steps' to illustrate:
                            1. Christ is the atoning sacrifice
                            2. My guilt is imputed to him
                            3. God is propitiated <<< This is Universal
                            4. Justice is satisfied
                            5. We have faith in his blood
                            6. His righteousness is credited to me <<< This is Individual


                            Diagram again:
                            http://5loaves2fishes.net/node/163
                            Last edited by Cyberseeker; Oct 12th 2008, 06:27 AM. Reason: spelling
                            "Your name and renown
                            is the desire of our hearts."
                            (Isaiah 26:8)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I learned it this way: Christ's atonement was Sufficient for all but efficient for only those who believe (the elect).


                              Two Seminary students were discussing a passage of Scripture after hearing the first fellow's take on it the second asks: "Are you by chance a Calvinist?" The first one gets a shocked expression and replies:
                              "By Chance!!!!!"

                              Comment

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