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  • #46
    Spiritually speaking, the throne is in heaven. Christ ascended to heaven and sat on the throne. That passage from Acts 2 makes that clear. It seems that you do not want to accept what that passage says. It is no longer David's throne because Christ took His place on the throne and it is now His throne that He sits on at the right hand of the Father. It is also the Father's throne. The Father and the Son sit on the same throne. They do not sit on a literal physical throne. We should not think of God that way. They sit or rule on a spiritual throne in a spiritual place called heaven.
    It could be His vacation throne. You know, the kind everybody is getting these days. A throne away from throne type of thing.

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    • #47
      32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

      This clearly says "right hand of God" and clearly says He received the promise of the Holy Spirit, where, other than your understanding, does scripture equate the throne of David with the right hand of God? Anywhere in scripture? Maybe it is the same place that says the Church will or is fullfilling all those prophesies about the restoration of Israel? That must be it.

      "til I make your enemies your footstool" does not indicate forever, it indicates "until I make your enemies your footstool"

      Of course He is ruling, there is no question about that so apparently He is not on a vacation throne. I was under the impression based on scripture He is interceeding for the saints, our High Priest, Mediator, not on vacation.


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      • #48
        Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
        Great job.

        We could list a dozen or more scriptures that show Christ's lineage through David, and through Judah.

        We can list ZERO scriptures that show Christ's lineage through Judah's brother Levi. The only support for this method, is to force cousin, to mean blood-cousin, instead of married-cousin.

        One view harmonizes with the pale of all scripture.

        one view contradicts the pale of all scripture, in favor of a viewpoint that is speculative.

        I wonder if Ezekiel_37 is Mormon and/or from some LDS offshoot that accepts the writings of Joseph Smith?

        Mormonism is the only group I have ever read of who postulates that Jesus was a Levite.
        no I am not Mormon or LDS, and no I do not accept the writings of Joseph Smith, nor have I read them.

        and there are others who believe Christ was both a Levite and of Judah. This is the priest line and the king line. He is Our High Priest and the King of Kings. Mary stayed with her cousin 3 months. Christ and John were cousins. There is nothing in the Word to suggest that they were not blood cousins. John was a pure levite, making Christ at least 1/2 levite. No one desputes Mary's fathers lineage.

        Peace in Christ
        In His service
        c



        7th trump gathering, not before!

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        • #49
          Are we given the information, spelled out for us, where this family tie of marriage between Elizabeth and Mary is. With Hebrews in mind seems there must be an explanation somewhere I just dont know where it is. And that is frustrating me.

          Hebrew makes it clear that the tribe Christ is from was not anything to do with giving attendance to the altar.
          7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.


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          • #50
            other than your understanding, does scripture equate the throne of David with the right hand of God? Anywhere in scripture?
            Does scripture equate the throne of David with Christ? is Christ at the right hand of God?

            in the psalms David speaks of the Lord's faithfullness to keep his covenant with David and He says that His faithfullness ( the promise of the Davidic covenant) he will establish in the heavens.

            Psa 89:2 For I have said, "Mercy shall be built up forever; Your faithfulness You shall establish in the very heavens."
            Psa 89:3 "I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My servant David:
            Psa 89:4 'Your seed I will establish forever, And build up your throne to all generations.' " Selah

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Benaiah View Post
              Does scripture equate the throne of David with Christ? is Christ at the right hand of God?

              in the psalms David speaks of the Lord's faithfullness to keep his covenant with David and He says that His faithfullness ( the promise of the Davidic covenant) he will establish in the heavens.

              Psa 89:2 For I have said, "Mercy shall be built up forever; Your faithfulness You shall establish in the very heavens."
              Psa 89:3 "I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My servant David:
              Psa 89:4 'Your seed I will establish forever, And build up your throne to all generations.' " Selah
              And what was that covenant that God made with David? TO have His Son rule on this earth, on David's throne, in Jerusalem. Read Psalm 2 for more information, and also 2 Samuel 7. Is Christ in Jerusalem? If David's throne is in heaven, then why did Jesus say this when the Disciples said... well, let the scripture speak for itself.

              Acts 1:6
              When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? (v 7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. (v 8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

              Christ's answer for the restoration of Israel, "It is not for you to know". That simply says what it says, that He is not at that time restoring the Kingdom of David to Israel yet. It is up to the Father as to when, just as it is up to the Father to know when Christ is coming back to earth, and it is not for us to know the day or the hour of His Glorious return. Rather, He told them to focus on the empowerment, the filling of the Holy Spirit, and you, the disciples, will do what? "Ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

              OBVIOUSLY, the Lord did not intend on restoring David's throne when He went to the Father's right Hand. He went to rule the Kingdom of Heaven, which HE still is ruling today. Israel was destroyed and scattered for about 1900 years. Even while Israel was scattered Jesus was ruling. Not David's throne, which was abolished for a long while, but Heaven and Earth, as He had done in times past. Show me a verse, just one, that says that David's throne is in heaven. I have not sen one, although Benaiah wants psalms 89, which states that God has established His rightwousness in heaven, to say that David's throne is in heaven, it does not.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by third hero View Post
                Show me a verse, just one, that says that David's throne is in heaven.
                Sure, there are alot of verses that show this. (Here are 15)

                2 Samuel 7:5, 13 "Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever."

                2 Samuel 7:15 "But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."

                I Kings 2:45 "And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever."

                I Kings 9:5 "Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father"

                I Chronicles 17:12 "He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore. "

                I Chronicles 22:10 "He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever."

                Psalms 11:4 "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven"

                Psalms 45:6 "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever"

                Psalms 89:3 "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah."

                Psalms 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven."

                Psalms 132:11 "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore."

                Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever."

                Jeremiah 17:25 "Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever."










                David's physical throne never was established in earthly Jerusalem for ever.


                As the Psalms show above, Heaven is the only place than the true eternal throne of David could exist forever.


                • Jesse's son David was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal son of David, Jesus Christ.
                • The Earthly throne of David was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal throne of David, Jesus Christ.
                • The Earthly kingdom of David was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal kingdom of David, Jesus Christ.
                • The Earthly city Jerusalem was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal Heavenly city Jerusalem, ruled by Jesus Christ.


                Do those verses help you?
                Jesus is YHWH the eternal Great I AM.
                • Jesus said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world. if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:23
                • " I YHWH the LORD, the first, and with the last; I AM He. Thus saith YHWH the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer YHWH the LORD of hosts; I AM the first, and I AM the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 41:4,44:6
                • "And [the son of Man] laid his right hand upon me, saying Fear not; I AM the first and the last: I AM He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I AM alive for evermore. These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive" Rev 1:17, 2:8
                • "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Rev 22:12

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                • #53
                  Psa 2:1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?
                  Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,

                  Peter says this was fulfilled in Christ.

                  Act 4:25 "who by the mouth of Your servant David have said: 'Why did the nations rage, And the people plot vain things?
                  Act 4:26 The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the LORD and against His Christ.'
                  Act 4:27 "For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together

                  Show me a verse, just one, that says that David's throne is in heaven. I have not sen one,
                  No, you have seen it you just dont understand it.

                  although Benaiah wants psalms 89, which states that God has established His rightwousness in heaven, to say that David's throne is in heaven, it does not.
                  Interesting that you feel free to change the wording of scripture from "faithfulness" to "righteousness". psalm 89:2 speaks of God establishing his faithfulness in the heavens and verses 3 and 4 tells us what the subject of this faithfulness is, the covenant with David to establish his throne forever.

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                  • #54
                    A king in a little known african village had a thing about thrones, Every year this king demanded that his subjects build him a fabulous throne, far better than the previous. However, the king was also a sentimental man and just could not part with the thrones he had acquired over the years. Year after year this king would store his throne in the upper room of his grass hut. The room began to fill with thrones and the weight was enormous. Then one day it happened. From the weight of all the thrones the grass hut came crashing down destroying all that the king loved and cherished.

                    After this the king became aware that it was far better to rule as his father did and his father before did. It was not by physical throne that made this man great in his kingdom but by the dynasty of compassion and righteousness.

                    The moral of this story is simple: do not store thrones in grass huts.
                    (taken from the story "Don't throw stones at glass houses")

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                    • #55
                      13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
                      14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
                      15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
                      16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. - Acts 15:13-17

                      In this passage, James explains that the tabernacle of David would be built at the time God would visit the Gentiles and to take out of them a people for His name. That happened at the first coming of Christ. The tabernacle of David is synonymous with the temple of God, which is the Church. Peter, speaking to Gentiles, said this:

                      9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
                      10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. - 1 Peter 2:9-10

                      The Gentile believers who were once not a people are now the people of God. Through Christ, God visited the Gentiles to take out a people for His name. And He grafted them in with the Jewish believers. In the same way that the tabernacle of David refers to the Church, the throne of David refers to the throne of God in heaven from which Christ reigns today and forever.

                      Eric

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ezekiel_37 View Post
                        no I am not Mormon or LDS, and no I do not accept the writings of Joseph Smith, nor have I read them.

                        and there are others who believe Christ was both a Levite and of Judah. This is the priest line and the king line. He is Our High Priest and the King of Kings. Mary stayed with her cousin 3 months. Christ and John were cousins. There is nothing in the Word to suggest that they were not blood cousins. John was a pure levite, making Christ at least 1/2 levite. No one desputes Mary's fathers lineage.

                        Peace in Christ
                        The following passage from Hebrews should put to rest the opinion that Christ descended from the line of Aaron (Levite).

                        Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

                        Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and NOT be called after the order of Aaron?
                        Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
                        Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
                        Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
                        Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
                        Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
                        Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
                        Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
                        Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
                        Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
                        Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
                        Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
                        Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
                        Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

                        RW

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                          Sure, there are alot of verses that show this. (Here are 15)

                          2 Samuel 7:5, 13 "Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever."

                          2 Samuel 7:15 "But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."

                          I Kings 2:45 "And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever."

                          I Kings 9:5 "Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father"

                          I Chronicles 17:12 "He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore. "

                          I Chronicles 22:10 "He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever."

                          Psalms 11:4 "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven"

                          Psalms 45:6 "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever"

                          Psalms 89:3 "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah."

                          Psalms 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven."

                          Psalms 132:11 "The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore."

                          Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever."

                          Jeremiah 17:25 "Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever."










                          David's physical throne never was established in earthly Jerusalem for ever.


                          As the Psalms show above, Heaven is the only place than the true eternal throne of David could exist forever.

                          • Jesse's son David was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal son of David, Jesus Christ.
                          • The Earthly throne of David was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal throne of David, Jesus Christ.
                          • The Earthly kingdom of David was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal kingdom of David, Jesus Christ.
                          • The Earthly city Jerusalem was the short-term non-eternal type that finds its fulfillment in the eternal Heavenly city Jerusalem, ruled by Jesus Christ.

                          Do those verses help you?
                          Where is David's throne David? Where is it according to scripture? Here are some verses for you.

                          Psalm 2:6
                          Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

                          Isaiah 65:18
                          But be ye glad and rejoice for ever [in that] which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

                          Verse 19
                          And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

                          Verse 25
                          The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust [shall be] the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

                          Zechariah 14:9
                          And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

                          Verse 16-17
                          And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

                          2 Samuel 20:3

                          And David came to his house at Jerusalem; and the king took the ten women [his] concubines, whom he had left to keep the house, and put them in ward, and fed them, but went not in unto them. So they were shut up unto the day of their death, living in widowhood.

                          And I have many many more examples of David's throne and David's kingdom being in Jerusalem, God's Holy mountain. The point is, was, and has always been, that David never had a throne in Heaven, and moreover, he didn't even enter it until after Christ died on the Cross. Therefore, Jesus's throne, which was in Heaven before He came to the earth, is the very same throne that He returned to at His ascention, and not David's. Why else would the Disciples ask this question in Acts 1?

                          Acts 1:6
                          When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

                          Who's kingdom are they talking about? Could it possibly be David's Kingdom? Indeed it is exactly what they were talking about, since every Jew at that time was expecting the Messiah to rule the entire world, as Zechariah, David in the psalms, Nathan to David, and every other prophet that mentioned the Davidic Kingdom proclaimed. However, they did not understand that before David's Kingdom can be revived by the Son of God, for in Psalms 2 and 2 Samuel 7 proclaim that only the Son of God is able to revive David's Kingdom, that the Messiah had to die, and pay the penalty for all mankind's sins. Indeed, David knew about this, and Peter highlighted that in Acts 2.

                          The point is that David's kingdom was never in Heaven. that is God's throne. David never ruled or had a throne in heaven. Like I have said before, He wasn't even admitted into Heaven until after Christ died and did away with Abraham's Bosom, which was the place in the sheol where the blameless dead were stored while awaiting the redemption that Christ brought about. Christ was at the right hand of the Father befoe Creation. He did not have a human body beforehand, but nevertheless, He was there. And look to John 1 for evidence of that. Jesus returned to where he came from, and David was not there before he left, and therefore, David's throne, the place where David ruled, is not in heaven, but rather Jerusalem, which is why Peter and the other disciples asked Him if the time of His ascention was the time of Israel's restoration, to which he replied, it is not for you to know when this will happen. To me, that is rock solid evidence that Jesus did not restore Israel at that time.

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