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  • Bible Doctrine

    Is there a single stream of thinking that can be learned from scripture?

    One that formulates whole ideas; that we can learn and appy to our life.

    I lean to that there are whole teachings we can learn and test with scripture;

    We are told to abide in a "doctrine"

    Romans 16:17
    Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
    2 John 1:9
    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    It doesnt say abide in this view of this verse or that view of that verse.


    I found of a course of time; that every discussion on the bible went into this line or that line;

    They ignored the knowledge or doctrine.

    They was a fruitless discussion, no focus on understanding.
    No focus on truth; just on who could be right.


    To go upon this verse or that verse; ignoring the over all doctrine is compared in scripture as the act of a drunken teacher.


    Isaiah 28
    7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

    8For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
    {What of a focus on the knowledge or as I call it the doctrine}
    9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
    {The mind filled with liquor{human view point} thinks like this.}
    10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

    And Again this is stated.
    13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
    With a warning that this type of thinking leads to RUIN!


    I think there is a call upon us to think beyond this line or that line; and take a focus on the total doctrine or teaching thatis occuring.

    This is well with in the call and realm of proper bible study.

  • #2
    CENTERION QUOTED


    Romans 16:17
    Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    2 John 1:9
    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    Now you are starting a thread just to imply that I do not have God. You have no right or Biblical authoirity to do so.

    TADDY
    Last edited by taddy; Apr 16th 2007, 08:33 PM. Reason: ADDED TEXT

    Comment


    • #3
      taddy

      Now you are starting a thread just to imply that I do not have God. You have no right or Biblical authoirity to do so.
      Frankly; the focus here is trying to be in the doctrine.

      I have not used your name; nor any one elses to start this thread.

      I have laid out a case for my position; of doctrine being a factor for biblical understanding.

      I am trying to cover the concept of whole teaching and concepts rather than line upon line teaching.

      Which to me;
      I would see as a profitable discussion, thus why I started this thread.

      Comment


      • #4
        Dear friends,

        I love Jesus with all my heart and will serve him forever. I do not choose to walk away from him. I have views on scripture and live by Bible doctrine. God allows for difference of views. That is why Romans 12:18 says: "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

        With that in mind, I sincerly apologize for posts that had to be deleted.

        Tad

        Comment


        • #5
          COL,


          my oh my, you're opening a huge can of worms, and this thread will be a hotbed of trouble.
          Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
          Q: What is the correct docrtine then ?

          A: The doctrine of Yshua the Messiah !

          2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
          However, in this day and age, many claim to have the true way.
          So you'll not get anything accomplished by these statements.

          BTW:
          Rom 2:21 you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal?
          Ergo: The conclusion is: that only through dilligent study you will find the true doctrine of Messiah, by laying aside all manmade doctrine.

          2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts;
          This happened even in the days of the apostels.

          1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine, and doesn't consent to sound words, the words of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness,
          1Ti 6:4 he is conceited, knowing nothing, but obsessed with arguments, disputes, and word battles, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,
          1Ti 6:5 constant friction of people of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. Withdraw yourself from such.
          This here refers to the Pharisees who had bound up burdens upon people's necks (Fence laws or by laws if you will to keep people from transgressing the laws which is sin), which they themselves were not willing to bear.
          They were so caught up in trying to make sure that no one fell to sin, that they considered those that violated even one of their fence laws a transgressor :
          1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
          Luk 11:46 And he said, "Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers.


          Their Pride made them drunken as with wine, as we see here:

          Isa 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

          Is
          aiah 28: 7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
          The thing about precept upon precept was about Yeshua feeding the Pharisees and Saducees the truth little by little, as we see here:

          I
          sa 28:13 And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
          Isa 28:14 [b]Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scoffers, who rule this people in Jerusalem! [B/]
          Anyway..... you're sure to get a lot of responses.
          Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
          2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
          If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
          http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



          Comment


          • #6
            Jesusinmyheart

            my oh my, you're opening a huge can of worms, and this thread will be a hotbed of trouble.
            {grin}


            However, in this day and age, many claim to have the true way.
            So you'll not get anything accomplished by these statements.

            Ergo: The conclusion is: that only through dilligent study you will find the true doctrine of Messiah, by laying aside all manmade doctrine.

            2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts;
            Correct;

            One thing I have learned is the doctrine of God; doesnt conflict.
            God isnt the author of confusion.

            So when one states a point of view;

            I cross referance it with other doctrines looking for a conflict.

            Their Pride made them drunken as with wine, as we see here:

            The thing about precept upon precept was about Yeshua feeding the Pharisees and Saducees the truth little by little, as we see here:
            Umm they was drunk with wine and proud to boot. {Nothing worse than a proud know it all drunk.}

            Verse 10 states more to the point i was trying to make.

            {Think of this from a view of a drunk; I have been around a few in my time, so this make sense to me.}


            Verse 8 and 9 goes into teaching doctrine.
            Isa 28
            8For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
            { Kinda hard to sit down and study when the tables are full of vomit; thsu study was not a first place theng.}
            9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
            {
            How can they teach knowledge or understanding?
            How can the teach the young?

            They are in the mindset of;}
            10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
            {This is the mental state of the drunk}

            God the spirit thru Isaiah is mocking them in a way.

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting as I am in complete agreement that the doctrines, the full counsels of scripture is more important than squibbling over one verse you can make say multiple things.

              Then I also see the verse from Isaiah supporting that instead of speaking against it.

              Doctrine is built, with a piece here and a piece there. This on top of that with God in trinity as the foundation. Not just a little here but from there as well. Revealing the true "doctrine" as all the pieces come together.

              Logical conclusions can be made from different pieces out of place but if they do not stand firm all the way down the line to the foundation they topple over when tried to make fit into the whole.

              We each build our own doctrine as we grow, no two people know all the same teachings or believe all the same things. No two people are at the same place in growth. There is only one truth and I have seen ones that I had wrong over time and with study that had to be discarded as a mistake. There is no "one doctrine", but many like different rooms in a mansion, the Great Architect having drawn them and slowly we get to see more and more of that building until in heaven we will see it in it's entirety.

              Very important subject I think.

              Joe

              Comment


              • #8
                But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. (Isa 28:13)

                And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. (Isa 8:14-15)

                If Jesus "stone of stumbling" Himself causes them to fall be broken.. etc. I don’t see that the aforementioned verse means the “thing” causing the fall to be a “bad thing”. More of a good thing serving the purpose of God’s plan.

                My take….

                Joe



                Comment


                • #9
                  Col,

                  i liked that explanation about tables full of litteral vomit. Though i'm not sure i can agree, cause i really don't know that the Pharisees and Sadducees drank themselevs into a stupor, but i suppose the Ephraimites did.
                  EWW (not so nice mental images coming up)

                  I do however agree that scripture proves itself by other scripture. It's all one hige complete puzzle, but one has to study to fit the pieces together, and that only happens with the help of the Spirit.

                  However, that still doesn't solve the problem of all the different views and doctrines abounding. Though it is my belief, that everything is coming together slowly, and many will find the the correct doctrine.
                  Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                  2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                  If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                  http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Walstib

                    Then I also see the verse from Isaiah supporting that instead of speaking against it.

                    Doctrine is built, with a piece here and a piece there. This on top of that with God in trinity as the foundation. Not just a little here but from there as well. Revealing the true "doctrine" as all the pieces come together.
                    What you are saying is a combine of doctrines for a concept; for knowledge.

                    Like example;

                    God is perfect.
                    Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
                    This is a doctrine we know; supported by other doctrines.

                    Therefore Jesus being God; must also be perfect.
                    Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
                    And Christ being perfect can perfect thru his work, those who are not perfect.
                    Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
                    Therefore we know that thru Christ; we can be found perfect to God who is perfect..


                    Isaiah 28 is addressing the LINES and jots, the fussing over a verse; it removes the knowledge from the learning and instead focuses on this line and that to form a path to follow..
                    isa 28
                    13 But the word of the LORD was unto them

                    precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
                    line upon line, line upon line;
                    here a little, and there a little;

                    that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
                    Line by line teaching does not create knowledge and understanding;
                    It creates a legalism style of check list; some path that you can follow.


                    Its result is ruin, so it is a type of thinking we should avoid.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jesusinmyheart

                      i liked that explanation about tables full of litteral vomit. Though i'm not sure i can agree, cause i really don't know that the Pharisees and Sadducees drank themselevs into a stupor, but i suppose the Ephraimites did.
                      EWW (not so nice mental images coming up)
                      After Romans as perhaps my favorate book; I am really starting to love the book of Isaiah.
                      The some of the imagery in it is priceless. {Esp isa 64:6 filthy rags in the hebrew view is actualy the menstral rags, which would be very unclean to the hebrew mindset.}


                      However, that still doesn't solve the problem of all the different views and doctrines abounding. Though it is my belief, that everything is coming together slowly, and many will find the the correct doctrine.
                      I dont see all those different things as a issue; when one focuses on the thinking of Christ and his doctrine as foremost.

                      If one is looking at their fellow man; then it could create a issue.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So:

                        How does one "abide" in doctrine?

                        What does one actually do with this doctrine which they are "abiding" in?

                        Are we just talking about sitting contentedly on our rear thinking little doctrinally correct thoughts here?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Centurion Of Light
                          I dont see all those different things as a issue; when one focuses on the thinking of Christ and his doctrine as foremost.
                          Well it certainly isn't an issue for me at all. I do my study, and i'm happy...
                          Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
                          2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
                          If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
                          http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            punk
                            How does one "abide" in doctrine?

                            What does one actually do with this doctrine which they are "abiding" in?

                            Are we just talking about sitting contentedly on our rear thinking little doctrinally correct thoughts here?
                            I would not discredit "contentedly on our rear thinking little doctrinally correct thoughts"

                            One must have the correct thoughts; before they can have the correct actions.

                            Man wants to skip over the training; and get to something they can do.
                            This will lead to flawed and ineffective action.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Centurionoflight View Post
                              punk
                              I would not discredit "contentedly on our rear thinking little doctrinally correct thoughts"

                              One must have the correct thoughts; before they can have the correct actions.

                              Man wants to skip over the training; and get to something they can do.
                              This will lead to flawed and ineffective action.
                              So what kind of correct actions follow from these correct thoughts?

                              Comment

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