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Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

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  • Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

    The subject was not about salvation but an analogy was presented as an example.

    The example was basically this... "I remember what I "felt" like when I accepted Jesus and was saved, so I know I am saved..."

    The topic is about how many who go off of feelings and not knowledge will come to a point that they do not have understanding. So for this topic about Salvation... this is what is going through my head at 1:30AM while I do some homework.

    I've met several Christians who I know are in Christ by the fruit God works through them and multiplies. Yet, they have periodically gone to the altar to rededicate themselves for Christ. Nothing changes in their life because they continue being who they are "in" Christ and while over the years, spiritual growth is evident... I have still witnessed them go to an altar call for those who want to accept Christ and they "rededicate" as they call it.

    So... was the fact that they are going off of the "feeling" when they first accepted Christ a feeling they desire again? Or is there a space that is empty in the "knowledge" that by that very first acceptance of Christ... they will be saved?

    I know they know about repenting and restoration and that is all that is needed if they were to rebel and stray off the path for a moment or even a period of time.

    So... why a need to go rededicate themselves to Christ?

    I'm tired
    Slug1--out

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

  • #2
    Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

    They acknowledge that they havent been perfect in running the race that is before us all. I can understand that all too well.
    Much like Paul saying what a wretched man he was for not doing what he was supposed to do ...all of the time.
    After every fall, one should get up and continue running the race ( rededicate). Its not a bad thing to rely on our mediator in repentance, find forgiveness and keep striving for the finish line.
    Seems that it is something I have to do on a daily basis, im ashamed to say.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

      Hooah, I understand the need to surrender mistakes and sin daily... but to reaccept Christ a couple times a year? Does a person who does this, do they "feel" that feeling when they first accepted with each rededication?

      I know that when I accepted Christ it was more about the acknowledgement that Christ was now in me, I was now IN Christ. I don't ever need to acknowledge that ever again. When I accepted Christ back in 1995 I even called it "rededication" because as a child I had accepted Jesus as my Savior but I left faith and God fir a long time. During that time I then began to follow denominations based solely on doctrine, religion, tradition and rules and Jesus was still not in my life. I did however remember as a child, accepting Christ even though I did not understand fully what accepting Him was all about.

      So, if a person does understand and has accepted Jesus as their Savior, why do it over and over, a few times a year when daily surrendering of sin and or full repentance of sin is all that is required because a person who is already in Christ is unchanged concerning being in Christ each time they decide to rededicate themselves.

      Now if the purpose was maybe to dedicate themselves to draw in closer or be a more godly person in their walk with Jesus... that would be understandable.
      Slug1--out

      ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

        Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
        I know that when I accepted Christ it was more about the acknowledgement that Christ was now in me, I was now IN Christ. I don't ever need to acknowledge that ever again.

        So, if a person does understand and has accepted Jesus as their Savior, why do it over and over, a few times a year when daily surrendering of sin and or full repentance of sin is all that is required because a person who is already in Christ is unchanged concerning being in Christ each time they decide to rededicate themselves.

        .
        I understand better where your coming from now...and i agree that that aspect is unneccessary.
        One should rather believe that Christ will never forsake him after the first time, and if he does sin and repent, God will never let go of your hand. God doesnt change, we do.
        And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

          Howdy Slug1 you know me, here comes my brutal honesty or so called here "my unmerciful" honesty.


          To prep what I want to share below I have to begin with this:

          If you disagree, I am open to correction, I promise you.

          I see what most of us call "accepting Christ"...
          I see that term as our bible presents: as agreeing with God's word that Christ is who He claims to be, to me that is accepting Christ biblicaly.
          Denominational definitions of "accepting Jesus" are for the followers/disciples of denominations.
          Our bible's definition of "accepting Jesus" comes from Jesus Himself, and second witnessed to my His apostles.

          Accepting or agreeing with God that Jesus the Christ is who He claimed to be is the function of "the call" just as John the baptist "called" from the wilderness: It is a call to repentance !
          A call to repentance when you strip away all of the denominational additions/traditions added to it which babbles away the message of repentance from the message of "accepting to follow Christ"

          When I was called it was not at an alter first but still I was called and I feel the need when the feeling comes over me (yes, the "feeling") a need to respond again, not counting or even conscious of the amount of times, I think the response for me anyways is dependent on my ear for the message heard that day causing me to respond to an unheard voice to repent of my fallen ways and re-dedicate myself because I do not always obediently follow His words after I have agreed and confessed that He is Lord of all.
          ...I and others who have never discussed what I am sharing with you now, they and I still respond to alter-calls.
          I cannot speak for them but I do it as an act of repentance or re-commitment/re-dedication.

          What I want to share is I do not believe the "call to repentance" saves, no matter where He calls from, the/His call to repent and follow Him does not save, friend.
          So, I do not think it comes anything near to crucifying our Savior again, if that is what you are getting at ?
          What can save us is His mercy to us after and how we respond to that "call" from that point on.

          John the baptist was the trail blazer just prior to and on behalf of Christ's time and work on earth, his message was repentance. Please keep that in mind for a moment while I try to show where I am going with it.

          1, The "call"

          2, Acts of "repentance"

          3, "Renewal and obedience" through and to His word, causing new confession and repentance of our newly made aware of sin (after the initial "call").

          4, "Our salvation or restoration" is up to Him alone.

          I learn more of Him (who He is) and have to accept that new revelation of Him sometimes daily. So, I need to "accept/agree with Him" of those new revelations each time, or I am gonna fall-away.
          ...I will take and will never stop taking the opportunity to do it at an alter-call publicly when I hear or see new revelations to myself from His words heard that day at that same alter !
          (confess our faults one to another... sound familiar ?)

          I said all that just to say that I see alter-calls as repentance and not a magical moment or instant salvation or a mysterious mind and character changing event that happens in that moment or twinkling of an eye. The call is to accept that Christ is who He claimed to be, and then from that point on to start reacting appropriately to that newly admitted or agreed upon fact.

          The actual motion of walking toward the alter is a public confession of that.
          To me it is also a quasi act of repentance, as is a public baptism.

          Then as you already know there is more after the "call" and after "repentance"
          We must learn from Him and then live obediently to what we learn from Him. (Or as He calls it: follow Him)


          Then on that Great Day, and not at anytime before that Great Day, He/Jesus the Christ proclaims if we are God's child or if we were the devil's child.


          Father bless those who look to you but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.
          Last edited by MoreMercy; Feb 17th 2012, 12:21 PM. Reason: additions

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          • #6
            Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

            Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
            So... why a need to go rededicate themselves to Christ?
            Could it be that, as their minds are being renewed, they interpret their growth as evidence of previous disloyalty to Christ? That would actually be the case, in part, but it is normal. Nobody is reborn as a spiritually mature saint. Could they be misinterpreting their previous level of immaturity as unfaithfulness, thus the need for rededication in their eyes?

            W
            Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

              Originally posted by Watchman View Post
              Could it be that, as their minds are being renewed, they interpret their growth as evidence of previous disloyalty to Christ? That would actually be the case, in part, but it is normal. Nobody is reborn as a spiritually mature saint. Could they be misinterpreting their previous level of immaturity as unfaithfulness, thus the need for rededication in their eyes?

              W
              Then why don't they do all that they initially and get baptized again each time also?
              Slug1--out

              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                Ah Psychology. I still have my old books and some papers and labs along with fond memories of driving those who thought to instruct me crazy. Even though I walked away from it I ended up being friends with the instructors I drove nuts but I made them work for it buddy.
                Especially when I pointed out, repeatedly, that the forefathers of modern psychology were nuttier than their patients............

                But that is not the question. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.


                As you know when we are born of the flesh we are (metaphorically) a blank slate. An empty chalkboard (Heart and mind) that is written upon by our life experiences. In our formative years home, family, family friends and the events that take place are the chalk that squeaks things into our "existence" and begin to fill up that chalkboard.

                These things are the foundations of not only our cognitive abilities but also how those cognitive abilities interrelate to our chaotic emotional tidal waves and everything (experience and education) that comes after our formative years is weighed and measured against the initial outline of our lives as it was written on our "Chalkboard" and the continuing formation of our "Will."

                When we are born again we are born of the spirit. The chalkboard of our heart and mind is being rewritten by the Holy Spirit and we are made anew. Even so war of Spirit and flesh and a war of "Wills" begins.

                A war between the will of God and our own will. When doing an alter call some submit their wills fully to God. Some submit some of their will and still attempt to retain a sense of self. Some have no idea why they feel a hole inside themselves. They feel that they haven't been filled to overflowing by the Spirit or that in their walk some has sloshed out over the sides of their cup and that they need an new infusion of the Water of Life.

                What a mess of convoluted words and an inadequate attempt of explanation of my thoughts eh?

                Far better to say the Holy Spirit guides and convicts us and teaches us. If some feel convicted to return to the alter it may just be the result of an inner struggle or an attempt of affirmation for them.

                Or maybe I just haven't had enough coffee to wake up yet and I'm just rambling.....it's been known to happen.
                Day by day
                Oh Dear Lord
                Three things I pray
                To see thee more clearly
                Love thee more dearly
                Follow thee more nearly
                Day by day

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                  Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                  Then why don't they do all that they initially and get baptized again each time also?
                  I would, if it would not offend ones of such opinions as the quote above.


                  Father bless those who look to you, but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                    Slug1, my 2 cents is that we are humans of weak faith and filled with doubt. Thus there are times at church where we feel a renewed sense of believe/desire/closeness to God and want to come forward to embrace it and partially in hopes of holding onto that feeling only to have it slowly drift away because we are who we are, fleshly sinners who by nature drift.

                    When I start to get overly worried about this in my own life I look to Peter and "Doubting" Thomas for strength. They both walked hand in hand with Christ, watched him cure disease, make the blind see, even RAISE THE DEAD and both of them were filled with doubt and even DENIED Christ. Then Jesus gives Thomas exactly what Thomas needs to believe and hence why I always pray to God for more faith. My personal common cry to God is: "23 And Jesus said to him, “ ‘If You can?’ All things are possible to him who believes.” 24 Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”

                    One theme that I love about the N.T. is Jesus's outward mercy when it comes to our inability to "easily" believe. It gives me hope!
                    When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                      Originally posted by BrianW View Post
                      Ah Psychology. I still have my old books and some papers and labs along with fond memories of driving those who thought to instruct me crazy. Even though I walked away from it I ended up being friends with the instructors I drove nuts but I made them work for it buddy.
                      Especially when I pointed out, repeatedly, that the forefathers of modern psychology were nuttier than their patients............
                      Wow... so many good points in many posts. Gotta run in a few so I'll clear up this. The college is Christian and the class is a Bible based Psychology so I don't have the friction of trying to apply godly standards to secular ways of counseling.

                      However, the few psych classes that I have done in secular college, I too was great friends with the teachers and some students I drove nuts

                      I'll be back later... so many other posts I want to address.
                      Slug1--out

                      ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                        Originally posted by keyzer soze View Post
                        Slug1, my 2 cents is that we are humans of weak faith and filled with doubt. Thus there are times at church where we feel a renewed sense of believe/desire/closeness to God and want to come forward to embrace it and partially in hopes of holding onto that feeling only to have it slowly drift away because we are who we are, fleshly sinners who by nature drift.

                        When I start to get overly worried about this in my own life I look to Peter and "Doubting" Thomas for strength. They both walked hand in hand with Christ, watched him cure disease, make the blind see, even RAISE THE DEAD and both of them were filled with doubt and even DENIED Christ. Then Jesus gives Thomas exactly what Thomas needs to believe and hence why I always pray to God for more faith. My personal common cry to God is: "23 And Jesus said to him, “ ‘If You can?’ All things are possible to him who believes.” 24 Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”

                        One theme that I love about the N.T. is Jesus's outward mercy when it comes to our inability to "easily" believe. It gives me hope!
                        Real quick because I have to leave real soon...

                        Once a person has faith due to "hearing" the message of Christ (Word of God) and they have submitted themselves and believe, thus they will be saved... if faith is lacking, then instead of doing that believing ALL OVER again, then why don't they do what the man did from the example you raised, except pray... "Help my faith"?

                        I've counseled many and when a person's faith is lacking... I ask them what ministry they do for God? The answer is usually, "None". I ask if they have any faith and the answer is always, "yes!" I then ask them how they exercise that faith and then the time is spent figuring out what exercising faith is all about. The cliche... "step out in faith" is fully understood but the HOW is not.

                        I tell them to pray to God to lead them to the ministry and allow Him to WORK through them and they will begin to exercise faith and lack of faith will not bother them as much or even, not at all anymore.
                        Slug1--out

                        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                          one thing i learned is dont claim you won the race till the race is over and the judge awards you.

                          God knows my fate, and he told me to run the race.

                          i find many like to find comfort for themselves in the thought of being saved, its also an easy sell for those who take pride in numbers.

                          i try to work out my salvation with fear and trembling.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                            Could be that they are simply expecting too much of themselves, and assume they are at fault. Maybe they unconsciously want to "reboot" spiritually, and start all over. I know when I see the example set by Jesus--or even by those who followed His example, such as Paul, I sometimes feel so miserably short of the level I think I should be at. I personally think we should rededicate ourselves daily just as we should die to our flesh nature daily. But, I don't get doing the whole baptism over, and all. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

                            When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Salvation - A question based on a statement in one of my Psychology books

                              Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                              Real quick because I have to leave real soon...

                              Once a person has faith due to "hearing" the message of Christ (Word of God) and they have submitted themselves and believe, thus they will be saved... if faith is lacking, then instead of doing that believing ALL OVER again, then why don't they do what the man did from the example you raised, except pray... "Help my faith"?

                              I've counseled many and when a person's faith is lacking... I ask them what ministry they do for God? The answer is usually, "None". I ask if they have any faith and the answer is always, "yes!" I then ask them how they exercise that faith and then the time is spent figuring out what exercising faith is all about. The cliche... "step out in faith" is fully understood but the HOW is not.

                              I tell them to pray to God to lead them to the ministry and allow Him to WORK through them and they will begin to exercise faith and lack of faith will not bother them as much or even, not at all anymore.
                              Oh, maybe I misunderstood you above. I thought you described people who were serving and have fruit in their lives yet feel the need to re-commit themselves and I was trying to describe why I thought that might be happening. I agree with you that if they are not seeing the promise of Eph 2:10 in their life then one should not believe that Eph 2:8 ever took place. However, I thought we were discussing people who had proof of God's work in their life....
                              When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

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