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  • tithing vs. debt / wife vs. husband????

    my wife and i have come to a wall in our opinion of priorities. i thought i would post here and hopefully gain some wisdom on the matter.

    i am of the school of thought that faith is obeying God no matter how i feel because he promises a good result...

    that being said here is our predicament.

    we have been tithing a full 10% of our income (before taxes ie: first fruits) for about three months now. we just had a baby 5 months ago and we desperately want my wife to stay home with our child. problem being is that debt payment owed to creditors ( mortgage, school loans etc) prevents us from being able to have my wife stop working. my wife is feeling as though she is not fulfilling her role as a mother since she is at work all day and is crushed over the situation. she states that if we were to stop tithing and pay off our debt and buy a cheaper house...she could stay home with our kids. im all for the getting a cheaper house and paying off debt, thats all great, im not attatched to any of our possessions. the part that i am wondering if i should take a stand on...being the spiritual leader of our household is, the discontinuation of our tithe. my wife says she bitter over the tithe because she says it prevents us from paying of debt quicker & i know God desires a cheerful giver, but what if only one of you is cheerful about it? i on the other hand cant wait to see my paycheck so i can find out how much my tithe will be. i feel as though we are robbing God (MAL 3:10) if we all together stop tithing. i feel like not tithing is relying on our own ways and not having faith that if we are faithful to Him in our finances, He will provide a way. i have searched all over for a solid biblical answer to our problem, but have only found extremes (tithing is OT and not for us, or tithing is required). i want to please my wife, but at the same time, God's priorities are one notch above that of my wifes.

    bottom line....do i take a stand and say "we tithe out of faith and God will help us get rid of our debt", or do i compromise with my wife.

    a humble thanks,
    Todd
    FORGIVEN!!!

  • #2
    Let me put it to you this way.

    What if you were employed and your boss said "I am in debt and cannot pay you this week"?

    Our response would be, "well why did he go get himself into debt. why does he spend so much? Can't he control his expenses?"

    Likewise....get your financial house in order and return to God what is rightfully His. There is a blessing attached to a heart given offering unto the Lord. I pray you will experience it
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by itsokimadocter View Post
      my wife and i have come to a wall in our opinion of priorities. i thought i would post here and hopefully gain some wisdom on the matter.

      i am of the school of thought that faith is obeying God no matter how i feel because he promises a good result...

      that being said here is our predicament.

      we have been tithing a full 10% of our income (before taxes ie: first fruits) for about three months now. we just had a baby 5 months ago and we desperately want my wife to stay home with our child. problem being is that debt payment owed to creditors ( mortgage, school loans etc) prevents us from being able to have my wife stop working. my wife is feeling as though she is not fulfilling her role as a mother since she is at work all day and is crushed over the situation. she states that if we were to stop tithing and pay off our debt and buy a cheaper house...she could stay home with our kids. im all for the getting a cheaper house and paying off debt, thats all great, im not attatched to any of our possessions. the part that i am wondering if i should take a stand on...being the spiritual leader of our household is, the discontinuation of our tithe. my wife says she bitter over the tithe because she says it prevents us from paying of debt quicker & i know God desires a cheerful giver, but what if only one of you is cheerful about it? i on the other hand cant wait to see my paycheck so i can find out how much my tithe will be. i feel as though we are robbing God (MAL 3:10) if we all together stop tithing. i feel like not tithing is relying on our own ways and not having faith that if we are faithful to Him in our finances, He will provide a way. i have searched all over for a solid biblical answer to our problem, but have only found extremes (tithing is OT and not for us, or tithing is required). i want to please my wife, but at the same time, God's priorities are one notch above that of my wifes.

      bottom line....do i take a stand and say "we tithe out of faith and God will help us get rid of our debt", or do i compromise with my wife.

      a humble thanks,
      Todd
      I could write a book about all this. I tithed for 12 years and only recently quit tithing. It would take a book to say why. But I started tithing to give and ended up tithing to get. And I got nothing. I would contest the tithe issue in favor very hotly at a time. But I am 4 years from retirement and owe now more than I ever owed in my life. I can pay the 5 figure debt by the time I am 65 if I throw everything at it. And that is what I intend to do. That leaves me no time to get ahead. I will repent to God and man if I am finally proven wrong. And I would love to be proven wrong. Meanwhile, "I owe I owe, it's off to work I go." God see all things and He sees my heart as I write this. "Prove me now herewith" He said. Do so Lord, and I will make it right later.

      Comment


      • #4
        Tithing is a very sticky subject. First, it has been taught improperly. When you go back into the book of Leviticus and actually see how and when tithing was to be given it would really blow you away compared to how we tithe today. Tithing in most churches are actually administered improperly. I know a lot of people say let God worry about that; but He did instruct us to be good stewards; therefore I think we need to give it some concern ourselves. We don't tithe in order to get a blessing from God, but because God has already blessed us.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by itsokimadocter View Post
          my wife and i have come to a wall in our opinion of priorities. i thought i would post here and hopefully gain some wisdom on the matter.

          i am of the school of thought that faith is obeying God no matter how i feel because he promises a good result...

          that being said here is our predicament.

          we have been tithing a full 10% of our income (before taxes ie: first fruits) for about three months now. we just had a baby 5 months ago and we desperately want my wife to stay home with our child. problem being is that debt payment owed to creditors ( mortgage, school loans etc) prevents us from being able to have my wife stop working. my wife is feeling as though she is not fulfilling her role as a mother since she is at work all day and is crushed over the situation. she states that if we were to stop tithing and pay off our debt and buy a cheaper house...she could stay home with our kids. im all for the getting a cheaper house and paying off debt, thats all great, im not attatched to any of our possessions. the part that i am wondering if i should take a stand on...being the spiritual leader of our household is, the discontinuation of our tithe. my wife says she bitter over the tithe because she says it prevents us from paying of debt quicker & i know God desires a cheerful giver, but what if only one of you is cheerful about it? i on the other hand cant wait to see my paycheck so i can find out how much my tithe will be. i feel as though we are robbing God (MAL 3:10) if we all together stop tithing. i feel like not tithing is relying on our own ways and not having faith that if we are faithful to Him in our finances, He will provide a way. i have searched all over for a solid biblical answer to our problem, but have only found extremes (tithing is OT and not for us, or tithing is required). i want to please my wife, but at the same time, God's priorities are one notch above that of my wifes.

          bottom line....do i take a stand and say "we tithe out of faith and God will help us get rid of our debt", or do i compromise with my wife.

          a humble thanks,
          Todd
          Could your wife stay home if you gave 1 or 2% of your income instead of 10? Nothing in the Scriptures say you have to give 10% of your income. The 10% mentioned in the OT was food that was given to the Levitical priests, there isn't a Levitical priesthood anymore and I highly doubt that your pastor is of Levite decent. You also have to take into account that a large percentage of your tax money goes to help the poor(welfare, illegal immigrants) so you could consider that a portion of your tithe.
          Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
          -Jeremiah 6:16

          Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

          Comment


          • #6
            Tithing in most churches are actually administered improperly
            So true.

            15 characters
            Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
            -Jeremiah 6:16

            Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by itsokimadocter View Post
              my wife and i have come to a wall in our opinion of priorities. i thought i would post here and hopefully gain some wisdom on the matter.

              i am of the school of thought that faith is obeying God no matter how i feel because he promises a good result...

              that being said here is our predicament.

              we have been tithing a full 10% of our income (before taxes ie: first fruits) for about three months now. we just had a baby 5 months ago and we desperately want my wife to stay home with our child. problem being is that debt payment owed to creditors ( mortgage, school loans etc) prevents us from being able to have my wife stop working. my wife is feeling as though she is not fulfilling her role as a mother since she is at work all day and is crushed over the situation. she states that if we were to stop tithing and pay off our debt and buy a cheaper house...she could stay home with our kids. im all for the getting a cheaper house and paying off debt, thats all great, im not attatched to any of our possessions. the part that i am wondering if i should take a stand on...being the spiritual leader of our household is, the discontinuation of our tithe. my wife says she bitter over the tithe because she says it prevents us from paying of debt quicker & i know God desires a cheerful giver, but what if only one of you is cheerful about it? i on the other hand cant wait to see my paycheck so i can find out how much my tithe will be. i feel as though we are robbing God (MAL 3:10) if we all together stop tithing. i feel like not tithing is relying on our own ways and not having faith that if we are faithful to Him in our finances, He will provide a way. i have searched all over for a solid biblical answer to our problem, but have only found extremes (tithing is OT and not for us, or tithing is required). i want to please my wife, but at the same time, God's priorities are one notch above that of my wifes.

              bottom line....do i take a stand and say "we tithe out of faith and God will help us get rid of our debt", or do i compromise with my wife.

              a humble thanks,
              Todd
              Hi Todd,

              Does your wife understand that she is having to work not because you tithe, but because of past financial decisions that you (both) have made?

              (By the way, I respect and admire your spirit. I personally think you are right on as the head of your home with putting God first and being a cheerful giver, although as a mother of 4, I understand your wife's desire to be at home.)
              My Blog

              Comment


              • #8
                The Word is still the Word; Your Bible is the Word; Be Faithful to the Lord!!

                Itsokimadocter, please stay with tithing!!! The Bible was inspired by God, and it is not our job to change it. What was intended to help HIS children back then, is still intended to help HIS children today. But, the devil is the father of all lies. Satan wants you to cave, so he can come in and cunningly get your wife to spend the money elsewhere, instead of for the Father's part, the tithe. All I can say, is that when you're "in it" for the right reasons, it works...Alleluia!!!!!!

                God Bless
                John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.


                My testimony: http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=137007

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would tithe. Praise God He has promised to meet all our needs and more. What a blessing to have momma home with the baby...especially in these days.
                  I'm Sara
                  "Jesus wept." John 11:35
                  Praying for my sister Mieke.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why don't you give God your 100% and leave it up to Him how He wants it distributed?

                    That is what stewardship means. Understand that all you have and all you are belongs to God, and take care of it according to His direction.

                    Sure, your debts put you in the predicament you're in, but should your child go without his/her mom to pay for that? There's ways we pay that have nothing to do with money ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Itsokimadocter,

                      Thank you so much for your honesty in trying to understand what God wants you to do with your finances. Here are my thoughts on the issue:

                      1) The "tithe" in the Mosiac Covenant was not 10%. Between offerings, tithes, firstfruits offerings, and firstborn redemption, I have heard that most families paid around 35% to the Levites, Priests, and ultimately to I AM. These tithes served as a kind of tax to maintain the priesthood and centralized theocratic government of Israel, while theologically maintaining and acknowlegding the reality that I AM is the giver of all things.

                      2) Seeing that we no longer live in a theocratic state where priests mediate between God and men, that these priests no longer provide our government, that we no longer follow a sacrificial system (we do, but there is just one sacrifice and it is finished), and that we have a new covenant where we are free from the law, it is no longer necessary for us to follow the letter of the OT tithe commands. There would be no way for us to follow them even if we wanted to. The temple is destroyed and we had better not offer up animals for remission of sin and thus blaspheme the cross of Christ. We should follow the theological truths of this system, and acknowledge that God is the source of all things in how we handle money and what (and where) we give. We need to continue to give freely because of the provision in the OT for a freewill offering that went beyond the normal set of tithes and offerings. The OT paints a vibrant picture of how I AM is to be worshipped through material possessions.

                      3) The main NT teaching on giving is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-15:
                      The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. As it is written,
                      "He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor;
                      his righteousness endures forever."
                      He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness. You will be enriched in every way to be generous in every way, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God. For the ministry of this service is not only supplying the needs of the saints but is also overflowing in many thanksgivings to God. By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission flowing from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others, while they long for you and pray for you, because of the surpassing grace of God upon you. Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!


                      It seems clear to me that in this passage Paul is making it clear that there is a new paradigm in giving. Christians are to give in a way that is "cheerful." I think that to live this out practically means to only give so much that you can give with joy. If that means giving a nickel, then give a nickel. Hopefully you will be able to give more and more and be more and more cheerful the more you give. I think that most churches are being shafted by teaching a giving rule of 10%. People can give 20%, 30%, or 50% and be more cheerful than they were giving 10%.

                      4) On being in debt:
                      Paul, in Romans 13:8, says "Owe no one anything, except to love each other." I think that it is Biblical to get out of debt as fast as possible, and not remain tied to the economies of this Earth.

                      I hope that this has been helpful. Perhaps the most helpful thing you could do is to read a book by Randy Alcorn, called Money, Possessions, and Eternity.

                      In Christ,
                      Levin
                      “The Bible is essentially an open, artistic, imaginative narrative of God’s staggering care for the world, a narrative that will feed and nurture into obedience that builds community precisely by respect for the liberty of the Christian man or woman.”

                      -Walter Brueggemann

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by itsokimadocter View Post
                        bottom line....do i take a stand and say "we tithe out of faith and God will help us get rid of our debt", or do i compromise with my wife.

                        a humble thanks,
                        Todd
                        Todd, I have been having just about the same problem in my marriage. Just recently, I came back to Christ after a long seperation that I am not proud of. I wanted to start tithing right away, but my wife said we didn't have enough money. I am from the same school of thought that says we have unconditional faith in God, no matter what. Just recently, after a lot of prayer for her and the situation, she has agreed to start tithing. It is not a full 10%, but we are stilll giving to the church and God's ministry. My advice to you is pray. Pray a lot. Pray more than you even feel comfortable to pray. Prayer changes things. Keep the faith and I will be praying for you and your wife.

                        - Jerry
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you all for the replies. i have not made a decision, but bottom line is that our giving will continue, a full 10%...maybe less. my wife and i are going to sit down and make a strict debt payment plan so we can get an idea of when she could stay home with our kids. we both WANT to give more, i pray God will make a way.

                          in Christs Love,
                          todd
                          FORGIVEN!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by itsokimadocter View Post
                            Thank you all for the replies. i have not made a decision, but bottom line is that our giving will continue, a full 10%...maybe less. my wife and i are going to sit down and make a strict debt payment plan so we can get an idea of when she could stay home with our kids. we both WANT to give more, i pray God will make a way.

                            in Christs Love,
                            todd
                            When you do this are you familiar with what can be called a "power payment' method?

                            Bascially (this is only an example)... say you have $500 going to 5 debts. The payments are 1. $50, 2. $75, 3. $75, 4. $100, and 5. $200. Based on those debts find the minimum payment for each of the 5. Let's say once you add all these minimum payments up it's... $250. You already have budgeted $500 to all these 5 debts.

                            So, pay the minimum on each except for one... usually the one with the lowest total amount and add that additional $250. Say for example it's #1 at $50 for each month and the total debt is $600 with a minimum payment of $25... now you are paying $275 a month till it's done in about 2-3 months.

                            Then you take that free $275 and add it to the next debt... say it's #2 at $75 each month and the total debt is $1000 with a minimum payment of $50. Now you have $325 going to that debt each month.

                            Repeat this till you have all $500 going to the largest dept.

                            This process will "usually" reduce the period of time to reach a self-inflicted debt status in almost 1/2 the time. The savings in interest alone can be thousands of dollars based on the amount of debt and interest involved.

                            Hope this helps you follow through with your budget and debt pay off.
                            Slug1--out

                            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In practical terms, you may want to try plugging your debt details into this debt calculator. The idea is that you throw the most money to the debt with the highest rate of interest, called 'snowballing':

                              http://www.whatsthecost.com/snowball.aspx

                              Although it's in £ and not $, the principle is the same. You'll pay less interest in the long run, but I understand the psychological boost of paying off a smaller debt and being totally rid of it.

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