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  • John the Baptist = Elijah

    John the Baptist = Elijah
    NASB
    John said he was not Elijah, although he identified himself as fulfilling the prophecy in Isaiah 40:3.
    This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
    And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
    They asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he *said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."
    Then they said to him, "Who are you, so that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?"
    He said, "I am A VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAY OF THE LORD,' as Isaiah the prophet said."
    John 1:19-23

    John was not even sure if Yeshua/Jesus was messiah.
    When he was in prison – probably knowing he would die, John sent two disciples to find out if Jesus was the Christ.
    Summoning two of his disciples, John sent them to the Lord, saying, "Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?"
    When the men came to Him, they said, "John the Baptist has sent us to You, to ask, 'Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?'"
    At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind.
    And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM.
    "Blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."
    Luke 7:19-23

    After John’s death, Jesus said alluded to John as being Elijah.
    "But I say to you that Elijah has indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him."
    Mark 9:13

    Here he even spelled it out.
    "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.
    Matthew 11:14

    Before John’s birth the angel said this of him:
    "It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
    Luke 1:17

    This was spoken of by Malachi:
    "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.
    "He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse."
    Malachi 4:5,6

    When Jesus was transfigured – or glorified. The spirits of Moses and Elijah appeared in glory also.

    I never caught this before; Moses and Elijah were speaking of the death / departure / journey of Jesus.
    Perhaps Elijah was saying “Make straight the way of the Lord!

    Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.
    And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming.
    And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah,
    who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.
    Luke 9:28-31

    To see the rest of the story, please visit: My two witnesses in End Times Chat.
    __________________________________(Don't forget the OP) J

  • #2
    Elijah and John the Baptist both carried a very strong mantle and message of repentance, which is what God uses to make the crooked paths straight.

    Both were anointed of God during times in history where wickedness abounded, and they weren't afraid to swim against the stream and challenge the religious and even worldly powers of their day.

    Elijah was up against Ahab and Jezebel and bunches of Baal worshippers/prophets, and John the Baptist was up against the Pharisees and Herod's rulership, which were all quite dangerous foes. Certainly no picnic for either of them.

    I love them both, and it's amazing to see how very weak both were in their humanity and doubts and fears, and yet how very strongly they were used of God to accomplish His purpose in their time. Amazing characters indeed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Richard,

      After reading through your post a question came to me that I found quite puzzling. So I thought I would ask it.

      (Mat 17:2 NIV) There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

      (Mat 17:3 NIV) Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.


      I can understand Elijah appearing before Jesus, as he never saw death and was taken up to be with the lord.

      But Moses died a physical death. At the transfiguration, it appears Moses has already been ressurected and is with Elijah, speaking to Jesus?

      I have always thought of ressurection in terms of an event that is going to happen in the future as mentioned in Timothy and Revelation.

      (2 Tim 2:17 NIV) Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, (18) who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

      (Rev 20:6 NIV) Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

      So, how is it that Moses was ressurected from the dead, before Christ died? Apart from the obvious answer that God raised him, and God can do anything God desires.

      How does this challenge our thinking on the ressurection as mentioned in the Bible?


      If anyone has any ideas on this question, I would be interested in reading them.



      Thanks


      Chad

      Comment


      • #4
        Pasover: the Elijah/John link

        It is interesting to note, the tie between Elijah and John made in the Passover Seder (empty chair...going to the door). In the Sukkot birth of our Messiah scenario you have John born at Passover. Jews, to this day, expect Elijah to come at Passover...and he did ;-).

        todd

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by chad View Post
          Hi Richard,

          After reading through your post a question came to me that I found quite puzzling. So I thought I would ask it....

          ...So, how is it that Moses was ressurected from the dead, before Christ died? Apart from the obvious answer that God raised him, and God can do anything God desires.

          How does this challenge our thinking on the ressurection as mentioned in the Bible?
          Hi Chad, J
          I had to think about resurrection too.
          But, the fact that Jesus was being glorified suggests a temporary open door between heaven and earth.

          Moses and Elijah were spirits and not yet resurrected, or they would have remained there afterward.

          Jesus Himself, did not vanish when He left after His rising from the dead, but instead rose to the heavens in bodily form.
          He did this so that it could be said of Him, he would return as an actual physical person and not some metaphor or even ghostly Spirit.

          And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
          And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
          They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
          Acts 1:9-11

          Jesus was the first to be resurrected.

          But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
          For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
          For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
          But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
          1Corinthians 15:20,23

          What is called the “First Resurrection” in Revelation 20 is actually the “first” for the rest of us.
          The second resurrection is after the 1000 years at the judgment throne of God. (Rev 20:11-15)

          While Jesus raised some people from the dead, they were not resurrected, because they were not raised incorruptible.
          It was only a temporary state and so they “died again” when their time was really up.
          Lazarus was raised from the dead, but he did not have a resurrected body, because those in the First Resurrection are even immune from the Second Death.

          Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
          Revelation 20:6

          So Elijah and Moses had not been resurrected.
          They were still in Spirit form, there to witness Jesus being made ready to take on the sin of Mankind.
          ‘The fulfillment of the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah).

          "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
          Matthew 5:17

          OK?
          Richard

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DaniHansen View Post
            Elijah and John the Baptist both carried a very strong mantle and message of repentance, which is what God uses to make the crooked paths straight.

            Both were anointed of God during times in history where wickedness abounded, and they weren't afraid to swim against the stream and challenge the religious and even worldly powers of their day.

            Elijah was up against Ahab and Jezebel and bunches of Baal worshippers/prophets, and John the Baptist was up against the Pharisees and Herod's rulership, which were all quite dangerous foes. Certainly no picnic for either of them.

            I love them both, and it's amazing to see how very weak both were in their humanity and doubts and fears, and yet how very strongly they were used of God to accomplish His purpose in their time. Amazing characters indeed.
            Hi Dani,
            Yes they were amazing "charactors".
            It struck me as significant that John reacted to the pharisees - come to question him - the same way Jesus did.

            But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
            Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
            Matthew 3:8

            'Never really noticed that before.
            Richard

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by valleybldr View Post
              It is interesting to note, the tie between Elijah and John made in the Passover Seder (empty chair...going to the door). In the Sukkot birth of our Messiah scenario you have John born at Passover. Jews, to this day, expect Elijah to come at Passover...and he did ;-).

              todd
              Hi Todd,
              Was it to fulfill this: [?]
              Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
              Malachi 4:5

              Do you know why they expected him for the meal?

              "John was born at Passover"!

              Richard
              Last edited by Richard H; Oct 16th 2008, 09:17 PM. Reason: Added: "to"

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Richard,

                Yes, thanks for helping. I never thought of it this way before.

                My line of thinking was that Elijah didn't need to be ressurected as he never died, so how does it explain Moses being ressurected?

                I never thought of it the other way, although Elijah didn't need to be ressurected as he never died, it doesn't mean he couldn't appear in Spirit with Moses.

                It is interesting becuase The cloud appears and then a voice speaks (Gods voice) confirming that Jesus was his son.


                (Mark 9:7 NIV) Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!"

                So I guess when the presence of God appears in the form of a cloud extraordinary and mysterious things can occur.

                In the Holman Bible dictionary it has an explanation of the transfiguration account. Some feel the transfiguration was :

                1. The Nature of the Event.

                2. A misplaced resurrection appearance;

                3. Others have claimed that the transfiguration was not an objective but a visionary experience.


                So Moses and Elijah appearing in spirit is a new way to look at it. I never thought of it this way before, so it is always good to get somebody elses view on how they understand the verses.

                John the baptist - Elijah

                I also did a study on the transfiguration, as I found it quite interesting, so if it's ok, I would also like to share my study on Elijah=John the Baptist.

                Regarding the coming of Elijah. I believe this was fulfilled through John the Baptist.

                John was the person who come as Elijah but not in physical form, but in the spirit and power of Elijah to restore all things and prepare the way for Jesus.

                The angel of the lord appears before Zacahriah

                (Luke 1:11 NIV) Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. (12) When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. (13) But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John.

                (Luke 1:17 NIV) And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

                At the Transfiguration

                (Mark 9:12 NIV) Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?

                (Mat 17:12 NIV) But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

                (17:13 NIV) Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.



                Chad

                Comment


                • #9
                  Revelation 11
                  3"And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
                  5And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.
                  6These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
                  Many think that the power and spirit of Elijah was specific only to Elijah. Not so, as has already been pointed out in this thread. There will be a time, yet again, where the power and spirit of Elijah will be manifest in a day yet to come. The Two Witnesses will come in both the Spirit of Elijah and Moses - the Law and the Prophets, the olive trees and the lampstands.
                  Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                  Not second or third, but first.
                  Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                  when He is the source of all hope,
                  when His love is received and freely given,
                  holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                  will all other things be added unto to you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                    Revelation 11


                    Many think that the power and spirit of Elijah was specific only to Elijah. Not so, as has already been pointed out in this thread. There will be a time, yet again, where the power and spirit of Elijah will be manifest in a day yet to come. The Two Witnesses will come in both the Spirit of Elijah and Moses - the Law and the Prophets, the olive trees and the lampstands.
                    Hi threebigrocks,

                    I definitely see the symbolic connection.
                    I don’t think you’re saying that Moses and John/Elijah will be reincarnated – as they are now both dead.
                    I don’t think you’re saying that Moses and John/Elijah will be channeled through some individuals.

                    “in the spirit of” as in the general sense of “the heart of the matter”?
                    I am not sure what you mean.

                    Richard

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The same powers, the same blessings, the same purpose. Different people, but used in the same way as Moses and Elijah will be.
                      Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                      Not second or third, but first.
                      Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                      when He is the source of all hope,
                      when His love is received and freely given,
                      holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                      will all other things be added unto to you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                        Revelation 11
                        There will be a time, yet again, where the power and spirit of Elijah will be manifest in a day yet to come. The Two Witnesses will come in both the Spirit of Elijah and Moses - the Law and the Prophets, the olive trees and the lampstands.
                        I would submit to you that that "day yet to come" is already here ...

                        There are many already that have this "Elijah" anointing of repentance who are preparing the way of the Lord, and are calling people back to the purity of the Gospel, and to Jesus Himself, in whom we live and move and have our being, and without whom we can do nothing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by threebigrocks View Post
                          The same powers, the same blessings, the same purpose. Different people, but used in the same way as Moses and Elijah will be.
                          I would definately agree with that, ThreeBigRocks.

                          The Law and the Prophets - with power, but new people preparing the way of the Lord.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh, I agree. But there will still be Two who will be sent. We are all called to do the work of God in what you said, but God's appointed ones to be a voice will be real. They will manifest what we have in scripture to the world to pave the way for Him again. And we will carry that over to those around us. Like God opening a window, we just need to be prepaired to stand in the message!
                            Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                            Not second or third, but first.
                            Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                            when He is the source of all hope,
                            when His love is received and freely given,
                            holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                            will all other things be added unto to you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here is a web site that has really meant a lot to me lately, and echoes a lot of my personal sentiments. Enjoy! He's pretty strong in his convictions, and so it's not for the faint hearted or ones who would prefer to keep a foot in the world, so to speak.

                              http://www.theschoolofchrist.org/

                              You can find a lot of articles under Read - Articles. Wonderful stuff.

                              Comment

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