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  • What would the following verse mean if

    he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; Mark 16:16 YLT 1st part

    believed: meant, as is implied in John 10:26,27 that is only sheep can be believers.
    John 10:26,27 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


    baptized: means, the baptism spoken of in Luke 12:50 and Matt. 20:23 that is if they be the same.
    Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
    Matt. 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

    Where is it stated in Mark 16:16 that the baptism is water baptism?













    W

  • #2
    Re: What would the following verse mean if

    Originally posted by percho View Post
    he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; Mark 16:16 YLT 1st part

    believed: meant, as is implied in John 10:26,27 that is only sheep can be believers.
    John 10:26,27 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


    baptized: means, the baptism spoken of in Luke 12:50 and Matt. 20:23 that is if they be the same.
    Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
    Matt. 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

    Where is it stated in Mark 16:16 that the baptism is water baptism?

    W
    I believe it is a baptism by the Holy Spirit, because of the mentioned signs that would follow.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What would the following verse mean if

      Yes, I have always believed it is the true Baptism in Spirit of which the water baptism is a picture.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What would the following verse mean if

        Many more Scriptures teach us who merely believes is saved. However I think the fruit of salvation results in the believer wanting to be baptised in water. I've witnessed this over and over again. And even in my own walk.
        Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What would the following verse mean if

          Originally posted by percho View Post
          he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; Mark 16:16 YLT 1st part

          believed: meant, as is implied in John 10:26,27 that is only sheep can be believers.
          John 10:26,27 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


          baptized: means, the baptism spoken of in Luke 12:50 and Matt. 20:23 that is if they be the same.
          Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
          Matt. 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

          Where is it stated in Mark 16:16 that the baptism is water baptism?


          W
          Mark 16:16 doesn't define baptism, but I don't think it needs to define it since I think the original readers of Mark understood that water baptism was associated with becoming a disciple of Christ.

          believed
          Accepted or affirmed the teachings of Jesus to be true.

          baptized immersed in a bath of water in a ceremonial confirmation or commitment to live according to the teachings of Jesus.

          It is one thing to affirm that Jesus' teachings are true. The demons affirm the truth of what Jesus says. It's another thing to live according to his teachings, which the demons will not do, but which disciples of Jesus will do. Those whom God is saving are those who both affirm what Jesus taught and apply it to real life, living as his disciple.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What would the following verse mean if

            Paul states..
            1 cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

            Therefore it is the gospel that saves, and the focus should be there..
            Sounds like Paul did very little baptism then start to regret what little he did.

            1 cor 1
            4 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
            15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
            16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

            Therefore one can conclude that baptism is more of a distraction now days than a requirement.
            It was one of those teaching practices to a people that did not have the completed scripture of the act of the baptism of the spirit.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What would the following verse mean if

              Originally posted by Colight View Post
              Paul states..
              1 cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

              Therefore it is the gospel that saves, and the focus should be there..
              Sounds like Paul did very little baptism then start to regret what little he did.

              1 cor 1
              4 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
              15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
              16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

              Therefore one can conclude that baptism is more of a distraction now days than a requirement.
              It was one of those teaching practices to a people that did not have the completed scripture of the act of the baptism of the spirit.
              Acts 18:8; "And Crispus, the cheif ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Paul wasn't the only baptizer in Corinth.
              If baptism isn't by submersion in water, then why do the verses of Romans 6 speak of "burial" with Him, and "being raised with Him to walk in newness of life"?
              If you're not crucified with Jesus, and buried with Jesus, then you have not been raised with Him, and have not been re-born.(Romans 6:4-6)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What would the following verse mean if

                Originally posted by PJW View Post
                Acts 18:8; "And Crispus, the cheif ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Paul wasn't the only baptizer in Corinth.
                If baptism isn't by submersion in water, then why do the verses of Romans 6 speak of "burial" with Him, and "being raised with Him to walk in newness of life"?
                If you're not crucified with Jesus, and buried with Jesus, then you have not been raised with Him, and have not been re-born.(Romans 6:4-6)
                Does not Romans 6:3,4 sort of leave us buried in his death yet we should walk as though we are living because he was raised from the dead? The same concept I believe we also see in 2 Cor 4:10-14 and Col. 3:3,4. the same.

                That is we are not truly baptized unto life until Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: and 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

                Then we will have gone through the baptism he was baptized with spoken of in Matt 20:23.

                I guess I am asking is not our true baptism actually being resurrected from the dead and or changed incorruptible. That the mortal must put on immortality and the corruptible must put on incorruption?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What would the following verse mean if

                  Originally posted by Colight View Post
                  Paul states..
                  1 cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

                  Therefore it is the gospel that saves, and the focus should be there..
                  Sounds like Paul did very little baptism then start to regret what little he did.

                  1 cor 1
                  4 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
                  15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
                  16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

                  Therefore one can conclude that baptism is more of a distraction now days than a requirement.
                  It was one of those teaching practices to a people that did not have the completed scripture of the act of the baptism of the spirit.
                  If Jesus was happy enough to be baptised with water then that's good enough for me.
                  Baptism as I see it is an affirmation not only for oneself but also to others that you have died with Christ and are on your new walk with God.
                  Just as a marriage ceremony affirms the covenant between a couple it is also recognised and rejoiced in by others.
                  An outward sign to all of your new beginning.
                  You are right that it's what we do after our baptism that will be the measure of our faith but I don't think that that should negate the need for baptism
                  I don't see it as a distraction, just the beginning of our wonderful new life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What would the following verse mean if

                    Originally posted by percho View Post
                    he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; Mark 16:16 YLT 1st part

                    believed: meant, as is implied in John 10:26,27 that is only sheep can be believers.
                    John 10:26,27 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


                    baptized: means, the baptism spoken of in Luke 12:50 and Matt. 20:23 that is if they be the same.
                    Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
                    Matt. 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

                    Where is it stated in Mark 16:16 that the baptism is water baptism?













                    W
                    Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

                    Speaks of their martyrdom, not of water baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.

                    As far as only His sheep can be believers...

                    Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

                    Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

                    Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

                    This is not the only day of salvation and God is not calling everyone at this time.
                    I've been throwed outta better places than this.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What would the following verse mean if

                      Originally posted by claybevan View Post
                      If Jesus was happy enough to be baptised with water then that's good enough for me.
                      Baptism as I see it is an affirmation not only for oneself but also to others that you have died with Christ and are on your new walk with God.
                      Just as a marriage ceremony affirms the covenant between a couple it is also recognised and rejoiced in by others.
                      An outward sign to all of your new beginning.
                      You are right that it's what we do after our baptism that will be the measure of our faith but I don't think that that should negate the need for baptism
                      I don't see it as a distraction, just the beginning of our wonderful new life.
                      I hear what you are saying, and good example with the marriage ceremony...

                      I feel it take the focus off Christ and puts it onto man..it can as it did in Pauls day create competition rather than a pure focus on doctrine.

                      Wouldnt you agree though that standing there with all eyes on you as you are about to be dunked is quite a attention getter..
                      You said it was a outward sign..
                      A sign to who? Other people?
                      Trying to impress other people..( God knows the heart, therefore needs no signs.)
                      Could kinda make ones chest puff up... make em feel like they earned something...
                      And what do you do next to get more attention...
                      how about tongues!!!
                      Or concoct a really groovy glowing testimony!
                      That will get them to look at me again..and really show em how spiritual I am!!

                      This is why I feel if Christ is not the focus...then it is dead works and a waste of time in a church.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What would the following verse mean if

                        Originally posted by PJW View Post
                        Acts 18:8; "And Crispus, the cheif ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized. Paul wasn't the only baptizer in Corinth.
                        If baptism isn't by submersion in water, then why do the verses of Romans 6 speak of "burial" with Him, and "being raised with Him to walk in newness of life"?
                        If you're not crucified with Jesus, and buried with Jesus, then you have not been raised with Him, and have not been re-born.(Romans 6:4-6)
                        We spiritually are part of his death thru belief..
                        We are baptized with the spirit at the point of salvation.

                        1 cor 12
                        13 for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink,


                        Or...Is your position that a human bath is required for salvation?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What would the following verse mean if

                          Originally posted by Colight View Post
                          I hear what you are saying, and good example with the marriage ceremony...

                          I feel it take the focus off Christ and puts it onto man..it can as it did in Pauls day create competition rather than a pure focus on doctrine.

                          Wouldnt you agree though that standing there with all eyes on you as you are about to be dunked is quite a attention getter..
                          You said it was a outward sign..
                          A sign to who? Other people?
                          Trying to impress other people..( God knows the heart, therefore needs no signs.)
                          Could kinda make ones chest puff up... make em feel like they earned something...
                          And what do you do next to get more attention...
                          how about tongues!!!
                          Or concoct a really groovy glowing testimony!
                          That will get them to look at me again..and really show em how spiritual I am!!

                          This is why I feel if Christ is not the focus...then it is dead works and a waste of time in a church.
                          Not sure I know of anyone who got baptised to seek attention and Christ is the focus, all the baptisms that I have seen have been people who have decided to give their lives to God, it is an outward sign of that commitment. It is not a sign to God as you say he knows their hearts, they are not boasting of themselves they boast only of the redemptive death of Jesus. A marriage requires 2 witnesses and families give their blessing to that union, so I think it is in baptism, we rejoice that they have joined the family of God and they themselves have made a public commitment, not so easy to go back on when you have witnesses.
                          Then as you say that walk with God begins in all earnest.


                          Still your sister in Christ.
                          Mari

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What would the following verse mean if

                            Originally posted by Colight View Post
                            We spiritually are part of his death thru belief..
                            We are baptized with the spirit at the point of salvation.

                            1 cor 12
                            13 for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink,


                            Or...Is your position that a human bath is required for salvation?
                            According to Romans 6:4 and Col 2:12, when I was baptized in water, I was buried with Christ. The "body of sin" (Ro 6:6) was crucified with Christ and needed burial in order for the body to be re-born, with Christ.
                            Nobody who hasn't been crucified, buried, and raised as a new creature with Christ has anything to do with Christ. Even the thief on the cross did this.
                            "There are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 Jo 5:8)
                            I have been baptized into Christ and into His death, in His blood, in His Spirit, and in His water.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What would the following verse mean if

                              Originally posted by percho View Post
                              Does not Romans 6:3,4 sort of leave us buried in his death yet we should walk as though we are living because he was raised from the dead? The same concept I believe we also see in 2 Cor 4:10-14 and Col. 3:3,4. the same.

                              That is we are not truly baptized unto life until Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: and 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

                              Then we will have gone through the baptism he was baptized with spoken of in Matt 20:23.

                              I guess I am asking is not our true baptism actually being resurrected from the dead and or changed incorruptible. That the mortal must put on immortality and the corruptible must put on incorruption?
                              If we have been buried with Him by baptism, (Ro 6:4), then we have also been raised with Him, (verse 5). This is not the resurrection from the dead that will happen when Jesus comes back at the end of the world.
                              "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
                              I (the old PJW) am indeed dead. Jesus runs "the ship" that is my body. That is the only way that "I" can walk without sinning. Thanks be to God!!!

                              Comment

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