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  • The critical importance of being an overcomer


    In Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 …

    Jesus is addressing 7 guardian angels (or human leaders) of 7 different churches.
    He gives a different promise to each church, and specifically “to he who overcomes”.

    He attaches this statement to each promise to the overcomers …
    “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
    So, His promises are to all members of all churches.

    “… all 7 letters are warnings to every church in every age.” (NKJV Study Bible)

    Jesus’ promises to those who do their part in being overcomers

    Ephesus -- The Loveless Church
    “To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life,
    which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’


    Smyrna -- The Persecuted Church
    (If you remain faithful) I will give you the crown of life.”
    “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”


    Pergamos -- The Compromising Church
    “To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
    And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written

    which no one knows except him who receives it.


    Thyatira -- The Corrupt Church
    “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end,
    to him I will give power over the nations … as I also have received from My Father

    … and I will give him the morning star.”


    Sardis -- The Dead Church
    “… He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
    and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life;

    but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”


    Philadelphia -- The Faithful Church
    I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world,
    to test those who dwell on the earth”

    “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,

    and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of

    the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God.

    And I will write on him
    My new name.”

    Laodicea -- The Lukewarm Church
    “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame
    and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
    Note: the underlined proves that Jesus is not talking about the overcoming in 1 John 5:1-5.


  • #2
    Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

    Originally posted by Evangelist View Post

    In Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 …

    Jesus is addressing 7 guardian angels (or human leaders) of 7 different churches.
    He gives a different promise to each church, and specifically “to he who overcomes”.

    He attaches this statement to each promise to the overcomers …
    “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
    So, His promises are to all members of all churches.

    “… all 7 letters are warnings to every church in every age.” (NKJV Study Bible)

    Jesus’ promises to those who do their part in being overcomers

    Ephesus -- The Loveless Church
    “To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life,
    which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’


    Smyrna -- The Persecuted Church
    (If you remain faithful) I will give you the crown of life.”
    “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”


    Pergamos -- The Compromising Church
    “To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
    And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written

    which no one knows except him who receives it.


    Thyatira -- The Corrupt Church
    “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end,
    to him I will give power over the nations … as I also have received from My Father

    … and I will give him the morning star.”


    Sardis -- The Dead Church
    “… He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
    and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life;

    but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”


    Philadelphia -- The Faithful Church
    I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world,
    to test those who dwell on the earth”

    “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,

    and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of

    the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God.

    And I will write on him
    My new name.”

    Laodicea -- The Lukewarm Church
    “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame
    and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
    Note: the underlined proves that Jesus is not talking about the overcoming in 1 John 5:1-5.

    Words to the wise.......
    Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
    George Orwell

    www.r2ucv.com



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

      Originally posted by Evangelist View Post

      In Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 …

      Jesus is addressing 7 guardian angels (or human leaders) of 7 different churches.
      IMO Human leaders! I have yet to find any scriptures that offer angels a chance to repent or that they have any need to “overcome” as the “angels” in Rev 2 and 3 are and do. I do however know of a verse that says that those angels who left their proper place are held in some sort of prison being held for the time of their judgment. Jude 1:6 “And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,” I can truthfully speak (based on scripture and experience) of the need I have (as a human) to repent and to overcome on a daily basis.

      Originally posted by Evangelist View Post

      He gives a different promise to each church, and specifically “to he who overcomes”.

      It is interesting that what Christ offers as a reward for overcoming is directly connected to who He reminds the angel that He is at the beginning of each letter and the problem, sin or challenge the angel must overcome.

      Originally posted by Evangelist View Post

      He attaches this statement to each promise to the overcomers …
      “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
      So, His promises are to all members of all churches.

      “… all 7 letters are warnings to every church in every age.” (NKJV Study Bible)
      The letters were specifically addressed to the angel and the need for them to overcome however the angels, their circumstances and the call for them overcome are used by the Lord as an example and are applicable for the rest of the church hence the “to the churches” bit. But not the church in general but to all the individual believers that make up the church. Sometimes it seems that we try so often to generically apply these scriptures to the whole church and ignore the personal “for me” application.

      Originally posted by Evangelist View Post
      Jesus’ promises to those who do their part in being overcomers
      The question I think we should be asking is if this is general overcoming or are there specific things that are in question here? I believe that all the angels needed to overcome the same problem or sin. The sin they needed to overcome is just demonstrated in different real life circumstances that each of the very real and literal overseers / pastors / church leaders / etc. (angels) were committing or were in danger of committing. This then forms the foundation of what the Lord expects of us as His church and represents the criteria by which He will judge and is judging the church. 1 Pet 4:17 “For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?”

      The flip side of this is that the call to overcome is given as a choice the angel had to make and in no way implies that they actually did overcome. So; in the case where they did not overcome what was their reward? Did they still get what those who overcame received?
      "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
      C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

      "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
      "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

      "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
      "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
      "Our Hope is unchanged"
      "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

        Originally posted by Evangelist View Post

        In Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 …

        Jesus is addressing 7 guardian angels (or human leaders) of 7 different churches.
        He gives a different promise to each church, and specifically “to he who overcomes”.

        He attaches this statement to each promise to the overcomers …
        “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
        So, His promises are to all members of all churches.

        “… all 7 letters are warnings to every church in every age.” (NKJV Study Bible)

        Jesus’ promises to those who do their part in being overcomers

        Ephesus -- The Loveless Church
        “To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life,
        which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’


        Smyrna -- The Persecuted Church
        (If you remain faithful) I will give you the crown of life.”
        “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”


        Pergamos -- The Compromising Church
        “To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
        And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written

        which no one knows except him who receives it.


        Thyatira -- The Corrupt Church
        “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end,
        to him I will give power over the nations … as I also have received from My Father

        … and I will give him the morning star.”


        Sardis -- The Dead Church
        “… He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
        and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life;

        but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”


        Philadelphia -- The Faithful Church
        I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world,
        to test those who dwell on the earth”

        “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,

        and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of

        the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God.

        And I will write on him
        My new name.”

        Laodicea -- The Lukewarm Church
        “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
        as I also overcame
        and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
        Note: the underlined proves that Jesus is not talking about the overcoming in 1 John 5:1-5.

        How does what you underlined prove "that Jesus is not talking about the overcoming in 1 John 5:1-5"? What is the difference? In 1 John 5:1-5 the context is overcoming the world. Jesus said He overcame the world.

        John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

        If Jesus isn't speaking of overcoming the world in Rev 3:21 then what do you think He was referring to there?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

          Originally posted by John146 View Post
          How does what you underlined prove "that Jesus is not talking about the overcoming in 1 John 5:1-5"?
          These 5 verses tell us WHO overcomes the world.
          It is whoever believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
          And this qualification surely does not apply to Jesus!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

            Originally posted by Evangelist View Post
            These 5 verses tell us WHO overcomes the world.
            It is whoever believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
            And this qualification surely does not apply to Jesus!
            I wasn't saying that it did. But in John 16:33 Jesus did say that He overcame the world so my point is that when Jesus spoke in Rev 3:21 of someone overcoming just as He overcame I believe He was speaking in terms of overcoming the world in the same sense as in 1 John 5:1-5 and John 16:33. We overcome the world by putting our faith in trust in Jesus, the Son of God. He overcame the world by faithfully obeying the Father and dying on the cross for our sins just as the Father sent Him to do. If you think that Rev 3:21 is speaking of overcoming in a different sense than overcoming the world then please tell me exactly how you interpret that verse.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

              So, should I not believe that the "overcome" term does not apply to my overcoming temptation? It does not speak of my overcoming sin in my life? I had always thought that the ones who "overcome" are the ones who are obedient to the intent and purpose of the teachings of Jesus and His apostles - that is how they overcome the world.
              Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
              George Orwell

              www.r2ucv.com



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

                Originally posted by Boo View Post
                So, should I not believe that the "overcome" term does not apply to my overcoming temptation? It does not speak of my overcoming sin in my life? I had always thought that the ones who "overcome" are the ones who are obedient to the intent and purpose of the teachings of Jesus and His apostles - that is how they overcome the world.
                I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Does one have to overcome temptation 100% of the time in order to be considered one who overcomes? Does one have to overcome sin completely (get to the point of never sinning) in order to be considered as one who overcomes? Does one have to be perfectly "obedient to the intent and purpose of the teachings of Jesus and His apostles" in order to overcome? If not then please explain what you mean.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

                  Originally posted by Evangelist View Post

                  In Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 …

                  Jesus is addressing 7 guardian angels (or human leaders) of 7 different churches.
                  He gives a different promise to each church, and specifically “to he who overcomes”.

                  He attaches this statement to each promise to the overcomers …
                  “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
                  So, His promises are to all members of all churches.

                  “… all 7 letters are warnings to every church in every age.” (NKJV Study Bible)

                  Jesus’ promises to those who do their part in being overcomers

                  Ephesus -- The Loveless Church
                  “To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life,
                  which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’


                  Smyrna -- The Persecuted Church
                  (If you remain faithful) I will give you the crown of life.”
                  “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”


                  Pergamos -- The Compromising Church
                  “To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
                  And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written

                  which no one knows except him who receives it.


                  Thyatira -- The Corrupt Church
                  “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end,
                  to him I will give power over the nations … as I also have received from My Father

                  … and I will give him the morning star.”


                  Sardis -- The Dead Church
                  “… He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
                  and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life;

                  but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.”


                  Philadelphia -- The Faithful Church
                  I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world,
                  to test those who dwell on the earth”

                  “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,

                  and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of

                  the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God.

                  And I will write on him
                  My new name.”

                  Laodicea -- The Lukewarm Church
                  “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
                  as I also overcame
                  and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
                  Note: the underlined proves that Jesus is not talking about the overcoming in 1 John 5:1-5.

                  Is there any correlation in your mind between these scriptures and the in the gospels where Jesus talks about those who endure will be saved, and those that do not abide in him will be cast down and burned?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

                    Originally posted by John146 View Post
                    I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Does one have to overcome temptation 100% of the time in order to be considered one who overcomes? Does one have to overcome sin completely (get to the point of never sinning) in order to be considered as one who overcomes? Does one have to be perfectly "obedient to the intent and purpose of the teachings of Jesus and His apostles" in order to overcome? If not then please explain what you mean.
                    Does sin control your life? Do you accept sinful behavior as acceptable? Do you willingly submit to sinful desires?

                    Have you overcome these things?

                    That is what I mean.
                    Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                    George Orwell

                    www.r2ucv.com



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

                      Originally posted by Boo View Post
                      Does sin control your life? Do you accept sinful behavior as acceptable? Do you willingly submit to sinful desires?

                      Have you overcome these things?

                      That is what I mean.
                      Is your answer to all of my questions "No" then? As far as what you said here, you apparently see overcoming as not allowing sin to control your life, not finding sinful behavior to be acceptable and not willingly submitting to sinful desires. Is that correct? How exactly do you believe one should go about doing those things? What does it mean to willfully submit to sinful desires? I'm not saying I disagree with what you've said, I'm just looking for a bit more clarification of what you're trying to say.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

                        Originally posted by John146 View Post
                        Is your answer to all of my questions "No" then? As far as what you said here, you apparently see overcoming as not allowing sin to control your life, not finding sinful behavior to be acceptable and not willingly submitting to sinful desires. Is that correct? How exactly do you believe one should go about doing those things? What does it mean to willfully submit to sinful desires? I'm not saying I disagree with what you've said, I'm just looking for a bit more clarification of what you're trying to say.
                        I can tell you only what has happened in my life, based on my understanding of how we are supposed to live. I hope it helps explain my view.

                        I have lived long enough to have built up many bad habits and reactions. Those bad things violate the principles that Jesus gave in His sermon on the mount. I understand by the comparison what a miserable unacceptable creature that I had become.

                        I had to overcome those unacceptable ways of thinking and reacting.

                        Through prayer and keeping my mind on Jesus and the things that He taught, I have fought them. Over the past couple years, many of those old ways are gone. Now, a more acceptable method of reaction happens. My old habits of keeping my mind busy with worldly things is gone and I spend far more time with my mind and attitude focused on staying in the path of righteousness.

                        Am I perfect? No. Have I reaches the status of fully mature? No. I have, however, overcome my old self. I have overcome the teachings of the world. I know when I am straying and I self-correct. I do not allow myself to sin, knowing in advace that my action would be sinful, and I stop it before it happens.

                        That is how I believe we overcome. It takes mindful attention to how we live and how we react to things. it is much easier now that I focus on Him and not on me. The world wants to compete for my attention, though, and it takes that focus to defeat the lure of the world.
                        Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                        George Orwell

                        www.r2ucv.com



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

                          Originally posted by salesman View Post
                          Is there any correlation in your mind between these scriptures and the in the gospels where Jesus talks about
                          those who endure will be saved, and those that do not abide in him will be cast down and burned?
                          Sure, there are loads of verses that warn believers about staying the course.
                          E.G. no one seems to realize that the whole book of Ephesians was written ONLY TO THE FAITHFUL.
                          IMO, the OSAS doctrine has been one of Satan's greatest triumphs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The critical importance of being an overcomer

                            Originally posted by Evangelist View Post
                            Sure, there are loads of verses that warn believers about staying the course.
                            E.G. no one seems to realize that the whole book of Ephesians was written ONLY TO THE FAITHFUL.
                            IMO, the OSAS doctrine has been one of Satan's greatest triumphs.
                            Sure is. As long as people think they have a fire-insurance policy that cannot be cancelled, the sky is the limit!
                            Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                            George Orwell

                            www.r2ucv.com



                            Comment

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