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  • Discussion Repentance Pre/Post Salvation

    In another thread there are some posts that reflect the thought that repentance is not required before salvation. For some reason that is not possible? And that it is considered a "work"? Probably about a year ago I came across a post that said repentance is not necessary after salvation. So which is it?

    Please provide scripture to back up your thoughts.

    Thanks and blessings,
    BHS

  • #2
    Again, I think that in order for this discussion to make any sense, you need to be very clear on what repentance means.

    Comment


    • #3
      Definition of Repentance from Easton's Bible Dictionary

      Repentance
      There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance.

      (1.) The verb metamelomai is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Mt 27:3).

      (2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with

      (3) the cognate noun metanoia, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.

      Evangelical repentance consists of
      (1) a true sense of one's own guilt and sinfulness;
      (2) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ;
      (3) an actual hatred of sin (Ps 119:128; Job 42:5,6; 2 Co 7:10) and turning from it to God; and
      (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments.

      The true penitent is conscious
      of guilt (Ps 51:4,9),
      of pollution (51:5,7,10), and
      of helplessness (51:11; 109:21,22).

      Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps 51:1; 130:4).

      (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
      Blessings,

      Road Warrior


      Proverbs 4:23
      23 Guard your heart above all else,
      for it determines the course of your life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RoadWarrior View Post

        The true penitent is conscious
        of guilt (Ps 51:4,9),
        of pollution (51:5,7,10), and
        of helplessness (51:11; 109:21,22).

        Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps 51:1; 130:4).
        I like what you have posted here. No one can be this conscious of sin, and its implications, without the help of the Holy Spirit, and no one can overcome sin, without the Help of the Holy Spirit. If we are to believe that Paul was saved when he wrote Romans, then we know that the struggle with sin does not happen all at once, nor does it happen before salvation.

        Rom 7:14-25
        (14) For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
        (15) For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.
        (16) If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.
        (17) But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
        (18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.
        (19) For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do.
        (20) But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me.
        (21) I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me.
        (22) For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;
        (23) but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members.
        (24) O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
        (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.



        Many of those who first come to Christ, have not yet even begun to understand what sin is, or how it affects their souls and lives. Paul gave very simple instructions to the new gentile converts:

        Act 15:28-29
        (28) For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
        (29) That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well.

        After this, as they grew and were convicted of particular sins, they (we) would repent, but this does not happen all at once, nor does it happen before we are saved. Repentance is changing the way you see things, and this is done by God


        Joh 5:24
        (24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RoadWarrior View Post
          Repentance
          There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance.

          (1.) The verb metamelomai is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Mt 27:3).

          (2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with

          (3) the cognate noun metanoia, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.

          Evangelical repentance consists of
          (1) a true sense of one's own guilt and sinfulness;
          (2) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ;
          (3) an actual hatred of sin (Ps 119:128; Job 42:5,6; 2 Co 7:10) and turning from it to God; and
          (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments.

          The true penitent is conscious
          of guilt (Ps 51:4,9),
          of pollution (51:5,7,10), and
          of helplessness (51:11; 109:21,22).

          Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps 51:1; 130:4).

          (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
          If I may I would just add to the above that repentance is not something that we 'do'. It is what God works within us causing us to respond to Christ. It is the gift of God (Acts 5.31).

          Of course in another sense repentance is continually with us, for we constantly have to 'change our mind' about the way we live and the things we do. Thus we should experienc daily repentance. This is, however, different from the initial repentance which produces a totally life-changing experience.

          Comment


          • #6
            Repentance is a major subject to God. Here is an interesting quote:

            1 Ki 8:46-51
            46 "When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin), and You become angry with them and deliver them to the enemy, and they take them captive to the land of the enemy, far or near;
            47 yet when they come to themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of those who took them captive, saying, 'We have sinned and done wrong, we have committed wickedness';
            48 and when they return to You with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their enemies who led them away captive, and pray to You toward their land which You gave to their fathers, the city which You have chosen and the temple which I have built for Your name:

            49 then hear in heaven Your dwelling place their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause, 50 and forgive Your people who have sinned against You, and all their transgressions which they have transgressed against You; and grant them compassion before those who took them captive, that they may have compassion on them
            NKJV
            Blessings,

            Road Warrior


            Proverbs 4:23
            23 Guard your heart above all else,
            for it determines the course of your life.

            Comment


            • #7
              I believe that repentance occurs before, during and after "salvation" - maybe we should define what we mean by "salvation"...

              Thanks for the definition, RW - very helpful!

              Comment


              • #8
                Psalms provides us with a prayer of repentance.

                Psalm 51
                A Prayer of Repentance

                To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

                1 Have mercy upon me, O God,According to Your lovingkindness;According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,Blot out my transgressions.
                2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,And cleanse me from my sin.
                3 For I acknowledge my transgressions,And my sin is always before me.
                4 Against You, You only, have I sinned,And done this evil in Your sight That You may be found just when You speak, And blameless when You judge.
                5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,And in sin my mother conceived me.
                6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
                7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
                8 Make me hear joy and gladness,That the bones You have broken may rejoice.
                9 Hide Your face from my sins,And blot out all my iniquities.
                10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
                11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
                12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
                13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,And sinners shall be converted to You.
                14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,The God of my salvation,And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
                15 O Lord, open my lips,And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
                16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;You do not delight in burnt offering.
                17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,A broken and a contrite heart These, O God, You will not despise.

                NKJV
                Blessings,

                Road Warrior


                Proverbs 4:23
                23 Guard your heart above all else,
                for it determines the course of your life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think we would all agree that salvation occurs when an individuals recognizes their have sinned against God and puts their trust (faith) in Christ to save them from their sin through his death on the cross.

                  I think if one trusts Christ to save them from sin, they will trust him enough to follow his commandments and teachings. If we follow his commandments and teachings, we will repent of our old ways and resolve to live as Christ did.

                  I do not think that repentance can be required before salvation, because we are slaves to sin before we are saved. We can't possibly repent without Christ's redeeming power in our lives.

                  I would not say that repentance is necessary to be saved, but rather that true salvation will always produce repentence. If someone has not repented, they have reason to question the authenticity of their faith. Repentance does not produce salvation, faith (trust) in Christ does. To suggest the repentance produces salvation is to advocate a works based salvation.


                  I hope that makes sense :-)

                  P.S. I am using RoadWarrior's definition of true repentance, which was very good by the way!
                  "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mahatma Gandhi

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you have your back turned to someone, then you turn around in order to see their face.

                    If you are walking south, then you turn around in order to walk north.

                    If you are walking away from God, then you turn around in order to walk towards Him.

                    Repentance is turning around.

                    Why make it so complicated that we need a 10-page manual on how to do it? Just turn around and seek God.
                    Blessings,

                    Road Warrior


                    Proverbs 4:23
                    23 Guard your heart above all else,
                    for it determines the course of your life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RoadWarrior View Post
                      If you have your back turned to someone, then you turn around in order to see their face.

                      If you are walking south, then you turn around in order to walk north.

                      If you are walking away from God, then you turn around in order to walk towards Him.

                      Repentance is turning around.

                      Why make it so complicated that we need a 10-page manual on how to do it? Just turn around and seek God.
                      Amen! Well put, sis!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chimon View Post
                        ...P.S. I am using RoadWarrior's definition of true repentance, which was very good by the way!
                        Thanks, Chimon, but I can't really take credit for it except that I found it in Easton's Dictionary, copied and pasted it here.

                        But I'm very glad that you liked it!
                        Blessings,

                        Road Warrior


                        Proverbs 4:23
                        23 Guard your heart above all else,
                        for it determines the course of your life.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Upon salvation, our spirits are regenerated and made alive unto God.

                          That leaves the issue of the soul.

                          Repentance remains the first and foremost tool which God will use to accomplish the salvation of our souls, as He un-teaches and re-teaches us, and changes our thought processes to come in line with His own and realign our will to be in accordance with His own, and to change our fallen emotional state into something that reflects His nature.

                          The very last thing that is going to be saved is our body, as it is sown in corruption and raised incorruptable.

                          On a side note, I have been repenting non-stop for the past 12 years since I fully surrendered and allowed the Holy Spirit to crucify my Self and begin the true work of the cross within me. And I continue to be amazed at how powerful repentance really is. To me, it's the true antidote to everything the fall has caused for us as human beings, and I remain grateful to Jesus every day for everything He has done to make it all possible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                            I believe that repentance occurs before, during and after "salvation"
                            That, I agree with.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is consistent with the example of Israel, that we should continually turn from sin in repentance, and seek the Lord.

                              Eze 14:6-7
                              'Thus says the Lord God: "Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations.
                              NKJV

                              Eze 18:30-32
                              30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord God. "Therefore turn and live!"
                              NKJV

                              Joel 2:12-14
                              12 "Now, therefore," says the Lord,
                              "Turn to Me with all your heart,
                              With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning."
                              13 So rend your heart, and not your garments;
                              Return to the Lord your God,
                              For He is gracious and merciful,
                              Slow to anger, and of great kindness;
                              And He relents from doing harm.
                              14 Who knows if He will turn and relent,
                              And leave a blessing behind Him
                              NKJV

                              Am 5:4-6
                              4 For thus says the Lord to the house of Israel:
                              "Seek Me and live;
                              5 But do not seek Bethel,
                              Nor enter Gilgal,
                              Nor pass over to Beersheba;
                              For Gilgal shall surely go into captivity,
                              And Bethel shall come to nothing.
                              6 Seek the Lord and live,
                              Lest He break out like fire in the house of Joseph,
                              And devour it,
                              With no one to quench it in Bethel
                              NKJV

                              Zep 2:1-3
                              2 Gather yourselves together, yes, gather together,
                              O undesirable nation,
                              2 Before the decree is issued,
                              Or the day passes like chaff,
                              Before the Lord's fierce anger comes upon you,
                              Before the day of the Lord's anger comes upon you!
                              3 Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth,
                              Who have upheld His justice.
                              Seek righteousness, seek humility.
                              It may be that you will be hidden
                              In the day of the Lord's anger.
                              NKJV

                              Zec 1:3-4
                              Thus says the Lord of hosts: "Return to Me," says the Lord of hosts, "and I will return to you," says the Lord of hosts.
                              NKJV

                              I especially love this one from Zechariah.
                              Blessings,

                              Road Warrior


                              Proverbs 4:23
                              23 Guard your heart above all else,
                              for it determines the course of your life.

                              Comment

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