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  • John 2:22

    (1 John 2:22)

    Powerful...

    To get an understanding of who Jesus is, I am reading the book of John's and I just found this verse powerful. I never thought of a non-believer as the antichrist.

    And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

    I can just imagine the chaos it would cause to tell someone who states they don't believe in Christ, that they're an antichrist

  • #2
    Originally posted by RZ06 View Post
    (1 John 2:22)

    Powerful...

    To get an understanding of who Jesus is, I am reading the book of John's and I just found this verse powerful. I never thought of a non-believer as the antichrist.

    And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

    I can just imagine the chaos it would cause to tell someone who states they don't believe in Christ, that they're an antichrist

    I find it hard to believe that they would care.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Emanate View Post
      I find it hard to believe that they would care.
      What about a Jew? Or any other religion that doesn't believe Christ is their savior, but they do believe in God? I think they would be greatly insulted by being called an antichrist. I know that means they then probably don't believe in the New Testament, but for someone who believes in God, I still think regardless of them not honoring the NT, they'd still be offended.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by RZ06 View Post
        What about a Jew? Or any other religion that doesn't believe Christ is their savior, but they do believe in God? I think they would be greatly insulted by being called an antichrist.

        No, they would most likely laugh and shrug it off.

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        • #5
          a gentle answer turns away wrath

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RZ06 View Post
            What about a Jew? Or any other religion that doesn't believe Christ is their savior, but they do believe in God? I think they would be greatly insulted by being called an antichrist. I know that means they then probably don't believe in the New Testament, but for someone who believes in God, I still think regardless of them not honoring the NT, they'd still be offended.
            Yes they probably would be insulted and offended. After all the Gospel is an offense and stumblingblock. Both Jews and Muslims have and sometimes still do show disdain to the 'trinity God'.
            But the solid fact is that our God has three Persons whereas they have a different God who deny the Son.
            ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

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            • #7
              Originally posted by crossnote View Post
              Yes they probably would be insulted and offended. After all the Gospel is an offense and stumblingblock. Both Jews and Muslims have and sometimes still do show disdain to the 'trinity God'.
              But the solid fact is that our God has three Persons whereas they have a different God who deny the Son.

              You believe that Jews have a different God?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RZ06 View Post
                What about a Jew? Or any other religion that doesn't believe Christ is their savior, but they do believe in God?
                Originally posted by Emanate View Post
                You believe that Jews have a different God?
                How would Jesus have answered these questions using John 8:33-47

                Particularly the closing Verses 42 and 47?

                Also II John 1:9?

                I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then they said to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think that is a great post David.

                  It is very interesting to note that the verse 1 John 2:22 stipulates the Father and the Son. I don't think John really cared really whether it would offend someone or not. I find when it comes to religious matters, someone probably will always be "offended" when they hear something that goes against what they believe.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                    How would Jesus have answered these questions using John 8:33-47

                    Particularly the closing Verses 42 and 47?

                    Also II John 1:9?

                    I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then they said to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

                    So this was not a rebuke to show them that there doctrine was in error, but it was comparing them to other gentile/heathen nations?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Emanate View Post
                      So this was not a rebuke to show them that there doctrine was in error, but it was comparing them to other gentile/heathen nations?
                      No, it was talking about them not 'having God' even though they claimed to and about their claims to follow God being false and untrue; since they reject Christ who the Father sent.

                      It had nothing to do with doctrine persay; but rather, they specific rejection of Christ...and whomever does so, is not of God, neither do they have God....regardless of their claim or religion.

                      When John said, 'doctrine of Christ' he could have just as easily said, 'belief in Christ', or 'following the teachings of Christ'...don't let the word 'doctrine' cause you to miss the entire intent of those two passages.

                      Summary: Anyone who rejects Christ, "hath not God" and "is not of God".

                      Another good verse-set from I John tells us about anyone who denies Christ:

                      "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

                      Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

                      Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father

                      He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

                      "

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RZ06 View Post
                        (1 John 2:22)

                        Powerful...

                        To get an understanding of who Jesus is, I am reading the book of John's and I just found this verse powerful. I never thought of a non-believer as the antichrist.

                        And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

                        I can just imagine the chaos it would cause to tell someone who states they don't believe in Christ, that they're an antichrist
                        This verse is NOT talking about people who don't believe in Christ. John is talking about people who believe in God, and believe that the Messiah is going to come. Nonetheless, these same people don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. They don't deny God. They don't deny that a Messiah will come. What they deny is that Jesus is him.

                        These were people who studied their Bible in anticipation of the coming Messiah. They poured through the scriptures looking for clues to his identity. What will the Messiah do? How will he act? What can we exect from him when he arrives?

                        Jesus did not fit their picture. They looked at him and said, "Nah, he's not the one." He got himself killed. He was an embarrassment to God and his people. He wasn't the Messiah.

                        John points out that if we deny that Jesus is the Messiah, to deny the son is to also deny the father. Jesus' ministry was attended by so many miracles, so many acts of kindness, so many acts of righteousness, to deny that Jesus was the Messiah is to deny the obvious.

                        Your unbelieving friends can't be antiChrist since they haven't got a clue what that even means. The one who has no excuse is the one who should know better.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                          This verse is NOT talking about people who don't believe in Christ. John is talking about people who believe in God, and believe that the Messiah is going to come. Nonetheless, these same people don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. They don't deny God. They don't deny that a Messiah will come. What they deny is that Jesus is him.

                          These were people who studied their Bible in anticipation of the coming Messiah. They poured through the scriptures looking for clues to his identity. What will the Messiah do? How will he act? What can we exect from him when he arrives?

                          Jesus did not fit their picture. They looked at him and said, "Nah, he's not the one." He got himself killed. He was an embarrassment to God and his people. He wasn't the Messiah.

                          John points out that if we deny that Jesus is the Messiah, to deny the son is to also deny the father. Jesus' ministry was attended by so many miracles, so many acts of kindness, so many acts of righteousness, to deny that Jesus was the Messiah is to deny the obvious.

                          Your unbelieving friends can't be antiChrist since they haven't got a clue what that even means. The one who has no excuse is the one who should know better.
                          Enlightening...Thank you.

                          So, what I gathered from reading that is only a Jew would be considered the antichrist since he knows Christ but denies Christ as the Messiah?

                          Also, where did you get that interpretation from? Is it explained in the books of John and I just haven't read it yet or elsewhere in the Bible and it refers back to what John wrote?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RZ06 View Post
                            (1 John 2:22)

                            Powerful...

                            To get an understanding of who Jesus is, I am reading the book of John's and I just found this verse powerful. I never thought of a non-believer as the antichrist.

                            And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist.

                            I can just imagine the chaos it would cause to tell someone who states they don't believe in Christ, that they're an antichrist

                            In context, John is talking about dealing with teachers and how to know if they are from God or false teachers. I don't think it's appropriate to take this verse and use it to say that all nonchristians are antichrists, because under the lens of the whole canon, that's not Biblical.
                            "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mahatma Gandhi

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Emanate View Post
                              You believe that Jews have a different God?
                              Jews who reject their Messiah (Jesus) are rejecting the God of Scripture.

                              Now I will say they have God's Word in the first Testament whereas Muslims have twisted it out of shape.

                              The Christian God is a trinity whereas unbelieving Jews reject that revelation of God and thus reject God himself.

                              Lastly, God has not yet fully rejected His covenant people the Jews but will deal with many (through tribulation) in bringing them to Him.
                              ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

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