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Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

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  • Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

    What specific biblical law did Paul break? Was Paul within his rights as a practicing Jew to persecute Christians?

  • #2
    Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

    Originally posted by rejoice44 View Post
    What specific biblical law did Paul break? Was Paul within his rights as a practicing Jew to persecute Christians?
    Paul didn't persecute Christians. It was his pre-saved Saul that did, IMO. As Saul, though shall not kill would be one that quickly comes to mind.
    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
    ... there are few who find it."


    -----------------------------------------------

    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

    The New American Standard Bible®,
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis

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    • #3
      Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

      Originally posted by rejoice44 View Post
      What specific biblical law did Paul break? Was Paul within his rights as a practicing Jew to persecute Christians?
      We must remember that except for a few exceptions, the first Christians were converted Jews in and around Jerusalem. The Law of Moses required that a Jew worship only God. But the Christians/Converted Jews were declaring Jesus to be both God and Messiah (who was predicted by the prophets to be Immanuel - that is, "God with us"). I believe that within the context of the Law of Moses, Paul's persecution of them was legal. What might be debatable was that not all those that he persecuted were put to death as the Law requires. Some were cast into prison - a retribution not foreseen by the Law of Moses.

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      • #4
        Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

        Originally posted by Walls View Post
        We must remember that except for a few exceptions, the first Christians were converted Jews in and around Jerusalem. The Law of Moses required that a Jew worship only God. But the Christians/Converted Jews were declaring Jesus to be both God and Messiah (who was predicted by the prophets to be Immanuel - that is, "God with us"). I believe that within the context of the Law of Moses, Paul's persecution of them was legal. What might be debatable was that not all those that he persecuted were put to death as the Law requires. Some were cast into prison - a retribution not foreseen by the Law of Moses.
        Yes. I think Walls nailed it on the head.


        God bless.
        God Bless,
        Tom


        Romans 6:2b-4 -- How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,even so we also should walk in newness of life.

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        • #5
          Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

          Originally posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
          Paul didn't persecute Christians. It was his pre-saved Saul that did, IMO. As Saul, though shall not kill would be one that quickly comes to mind.
          To Paul the worship of Jesus was worshiping other Gods, was it not?


          Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;



          Deuteronomy 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.



          When you consider that the law said to take disobedient children and stone them, how could one fault Paul for persecuting those that worshiped a false God?

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          • #6
            Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

            Originally posted by Walls View Post
            We must remember that except for a few exceptions, the first Christians were converted Jews in and around Jerusalem. The Law of Moses required that a Jew worship only God. But the Christians/Converted Jews were declaring Jesus to be both God and Messiah (who was predicted by the prophets to be Immanuel - that is, "God with us"). I believe that within the context of the Law of Moses, Paul's persecution of them was legal. What might be debatable was that not all those that he persecuted were put to death as the Law requires. Some were cast into prison - a retribution not foreseen by the Law of Moses.
            Didn't the law require that they be examined first and witnesses brought forth? Paul was not an authority unto himself. Paul went through the Sanhedrin. In the case of Stephen the witnesses were there, but the others, that Paul went into their houses to gather, they could not be stoned without the testimony of witnesses.

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            • #7
              Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

              Originally posted by Walls View Post
              What might be debatable was that not all those that he persecuted were put to death as the Law requires. Some were cast into prison - a retribution not foreseen by the Law of Moses.
              This is likely due to the Roman occupation. I understand that only the Romans were allowed to execute people.
              Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
              Ecc 7:10

              John777 exists to me only in quoted form.


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              • #8
                Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                Saul/Paul was wrong 100%. Those who didn't believe Jesus, whether their unbelief was deliberate(willful pride, etc.) or out of ignorance, they were sinning. Saul/Paul was not in any way shape or form justified in his actions. I believe he repented without one utterance of the words "but" or "but I thought."

                What would be the difference between Paul's justification towards his judgment of Christians as opposed to the Jews of today? I believe the answer is...nothing.

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                • #9
                  Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                  Originally posted by ClayInHisHands View Post
                  Saul/Paul was wrong 100%. Those who didn't believe Jesus, whether their unbelief was deliberate(willful pride, etc.) or out of ignorance, they were sinning. Saul/Paul was not in any way shape or form justified in his actions. I believe he repented without one utterance of the words "but" or "but I thought."
                  But this doesn't answer what Levitical law Saul/Paul broke.

                  What would be the difference between Paul's justification towards his judgment of Christians as opposed to the Jews of today? I believe the answer is...nothing.
                  The Jews have two thousand years of Christian testimony. They have everything dated to the birth of the Messiah. They have nearly two thousand years without a priest or temple. They have not been able to make atonement for their sins in all that time. What evidence did Paul have?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                    Originally posted by rejoice44 View Post
                    But this doesn't answer what Levitical law Saul/Paul broke.
                    I'm not really sure at this moment how to answer exactly.


                    The Jews have two thousand years of Christian testimony. They have everything dated to the birth of the Messiah. They have nearly two thousand years without a priest or temple. They have not been able to make atonement for their sins in all that time. What evidence did Paul have?
                    Are you suggesting that those Jews who didn't except Christ in Pauls time, when they died still denying Christ, that they will indeed enter in God's rest and live eternally? Not implying you are, but I know a lot of people say, we don't know, but I beg to differ. If someone willing denies Christ and then dies...they are not saved. Doesn't mean we are trying to be God, but if we can't say this at all, then how can warn anyone?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                      Originally posted by ClayInHisHands View Post
                      I'm not really sure at this moment how to answer exactly.




                      Are you suggesting that those Jews who didn't except Christ in Pauls time, when they died still denying Christ, that they will indeed enter in God's rest and live eternally? Not implying you are, but I know a lot of people say, we don't know, but I beg to differ. If someone willing denies Christ and then dies...they are not saved. Doesn't mean we are trying to be God, but if we can't say this at all, then how can warn anyone?
                      The short answer to your question is no. I don't believe they will enter God's rest.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                        Originally posted by ClayInHisHands View Post
                        I'm not really sure at this moment how to answer exactly.
                        Within the context of the Original Posting, Paul was acting Lawfully. The comment about Roman occupation, and the Jews getting permission to kill offenders of their Law, was a good one. It goes to show how far Israel had fallen under foreign rule (one of the curses of Deuteronomy Chapter 28). They had to get men's permission to execute God's Law.

                        Are you suggesting that those Jews who didn't except Christ in Pauls time, when they died still denying Christ, that they will indeed enter in God's rest and live eternally? Not implying you are, but I know a lot of people say, we don't know, but I beg to differ. If someone willing denies Christ and then dies...they are not saved. Doesn't mean we are trying to be God, but if we can't say this at all, then how can warn anyone?
                        You are correct in all you say, except that the original posting restricted answers to matters of Law. The issue of the Jews' future after rejecting their Messiah is thoroughly thrashed out in some other threads (not to some poster's satisfaction I know).

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                        • #13
                          Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                          Originally posted by rejoice44 View Post
                          The short answer to your question is no. I don't believe they will enter God's rest.
                          Thanks for clarifying.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                            Originally posted by Walls View Post
                            Within the context of the Original Posting, Paul was acting Lawfully.
                            But according to God, Paul was sinning completely, correct?

                            The comment about Roman occupation, and the Jews getting permission to kill offenders of their Law, was a good one. It goes to show how far Israel had fallen under foreign rule (one of the curses of Deuteronomy Chapter 28). They had to get men's permission to execute God's Law. You are correct in all you say, except that the original posting restricted answers to matters of Law. The issue of the Jews' future after rejecting their Messiah is thoroughly thrashed out in some other threads (not to some poster's satisfaction I know).
                            They too were sinning, correct? In this case, the crucifying of Jesus.
                            Last edited by ClayInHisHands; Jan 18th 2013, 10:05 PM. Reason: Corrected Quote

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                            • #15
                              Re: Did Paul break the law in persecuting Christians?

                              Paul himself admits he was a blashphmer, persecutor and a violent man. He persecuted the Christians out of ignorance and unbelief. He considered his actions sinful and called himself - the worst of sinners (1 Tim 1:12-17). Ironically, Paul himself was persecuted by the Jews, who also persecuted Christ Jesus, so in a way he could understand their thinking and ignorance, for he himself acted this way.



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