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Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

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  • Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

    Are those in Christ still under the law that says, “You sin, you die” (Romans 6:23)?

    Paul says (from Romans 7 & 8):
    For the wages of sin is death. Do you know that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? You were made to die to the law through Christ. We have been released from the law. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

    It is said we are forgiven of our sins when we repent and put our faith in Christ Jesus. We are baptized into the body of Christ. We are taken from being under the law (which condemns us to death because we have sinned) and put under Christ. Once under Christ, baptized into the body of Christ and “in Christ,” can our future sin condemn us to death (this is not in referring to being in a constant state of rebellion that leads us to continually practice sin)?
    36
    Yes.
    22.22%
    8
    No.
    58.33%
    21
    Other. I'll explain.
    19.44%
    7

  • #2
    Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

    For exactly the reasons you state! Christ isn't bound by time, and our future sins are forgiven too. Otherwise (as has been brought up in some other threads,) if I followed Christ my whole life but sinned in my dying breath, I'd be screwed. Thank you, Lord!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

      Originally posted by psyche643 View Post
      ...if I followed Christ my whole life but sinned in my dying breath, I'd be screwed.
      This statement of yours focuses on what I'm getting at. This all came up when someone mentioned to me that Matthew 6:15 (if you do not forgive others then your Father will not forgive your trespasses) means that if we die with any unconfessed, unrepentant sin such as unforgiveness, we die with an unforgiven sin, which means the that the law that there are wages of sin to be paid applies to us and we must pay with death (eternal death). It seems to me, though, that Paul says that not only are we forgiven for past sins when we repent and put our faith in Christ, we also die to the law (Rom. 7 & 8) and it no longer, from that point forward, has jurisdiction over us. Thus, future unconfessed & unrepentant sin can't condemn us to death according to the law that says, "the wages of sin is death."

      Now, there is the parable of the unforgiving debtor in Matthew 18 that this could also relate to which shows that God will not forgive those who heartlessly unforgive others. But it seems there is a vast difference between holding a private grudge due to pride and using your "justified" unforgiveness as a license to be cruel. I have seen very loving individuals who've committed themselves to following Christ Jesus fall into the sin of pride & unforgiveness and hold onto it much too long. What if they were hit by a car & killed while harboring this grudge--they'd go to hell because they died with a sin they hadn't yet asked forgiveness for?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

        Originally posted by LookingUp View Post
        Are those in Christ still under the law that says, “You sin, you die” (Romans 6:23)?

        Paul says (from Romans 7 & 8):
        For the wages of sin is death. Do you know that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? You were made to die to the law through Christ. We have been released from the law. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

        It is said we are forgiven of our sins when we repent and put our faith in Christ Jesus. We are baptized into the body of Christ. We are taken from being under the law (which condemns us to death because we have sinned) and put under Christ. Once under Christ, baptized into the body of Christ and “in Christ,” can our future sin condemn us to death (this is not in referring to being in a constant state of rebellion that leads us to continually practice sin)?
        There are a number of problems that are solved by our Lord's death. Your future sins are also dealt with by His death. But John 1:17 say that mercy is coupled to truth. This can be seen in the matter of forgiveness in the Church in Matthew 18. The offended must approach the offender and the offender must admit the offense. If he/she does not admit the offense there is no forgiveness, but excommunication.

        So we must basically judge ourselves on an hourly basis (for this is the time span of Christ's unexpected coming - Matt.24:42, 25:13) and admit our faults to the Lord. This type of self judgement on an hourly basis leads to two possible endings.
        1. Either you get so fed up with yourself you actually start dealing with the problems and you end up living a holier life
        2. Or you give up and continue in sin, and it will go badly for you at the judgment seat of Christ (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)

        The wages of sin is death. So all men are headed for physical death (1st Ki.2:1-2). But God warns us that there is a second death that must be feared worse than the first. It is the death of the soul (Matt.10:28). A Christian cannot go to the Lake of Fire, the everlasting death of the soul, but the effects of the Lake of Fire can be felt by a Christian. To the Church (Christians) at Smyrna Jesus Christ warns that unless one is an overcomer, one could be "hurt" of the Second Death. "Hurt" is different from "consumed". What it means is, after the Lord Jesus returns, He will judge and deal with those Christians who have continued in sin with "hurt" from the second death. From piecing together all the warnings of the New Testament directed towards the Lord's people and/or servants, I estimate that the unrepentant Christian will be cast out of the Kingdom of the Heavens and into outer darkness for the duration of the Millennial Kingdom (eg. Gal.5:21; Eph.5:5).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

          I responded "other." The reason is found in 1 Corinthians 3. It is up to God to tell us what Paul meant to tell the people at Corinth. It quite possibly refers to what happens to us if we leave this earth with some bad works on our record (unforgiven sin). It is up to God to clarify the teaching there as I feel no need to start a debate about it.

          Walls' view is also like mine. I keep my mind and heart with God and ensure that I am watching to see that I give God reason to approve of my walk constantly. I want to please Him, so i guard my heart from the world. I will not give up and give in.
          Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
          George Orwell

          www.r2ucv.com



          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

            "Under the Law" is an idiom dealing with guilt. "Under grace" is an idiom dealing with freedom, forgiveness. We are no longer "under the law" (we are no longer guilty because the bridegroom has paid the penalty for the bride) and now we are "under grace" (forgiven, free to obey and worship without fear of condemnation from God or man). Being free does not abrogate walking in God's will, we are still to die to the notion that we live according to our understanding of righteousness, and we are to live according to His. No matter how you slice it, we are called to live a holy and righteous life as per God's standards and definitions. Not "unto salvation," but once you become His, you are to live set apart from the sinful world around us. So "not sinning" is expected of God people, and when and if we do, we have an advocate in messiah.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

              Originally posted by LandShark View Post
              "Under the Law" is an idiom dealing with guilt. "Under grace" is an idiom dealing with freedom, forgiveness. We are no longer "under the law" (we are no longer guilty because the bridegroom has paid the penalty for the bride) and now we are "under grace" (forgiven, free to obey and worship without fear of condemnation from God or man). Being free does not abrogate walking in God's will, we are still to die to the notion that we live according to our understanding of righteousness, and we are to live according to His. No matter how you slice it, we are called to live a holy and righteous life as per God's standards and definitions. Not "unto salvation," but once you become His, you are to live set apart from the sinful world around us. So "not sinning" is expected of God people, and when and if we do, we have an advocate in messiah.
              I could not have put it better. Beginning at Romans 5:8 through chapter 6, I believe you will find the death of Jesus Christ, his shed blood, and his subsequent resurrection from the dead is what released one from being under the law to being under grace.

              Before that point in time, those three days and three nights, there wasn't any means for man to be released from the wages of sin.


              Paul by inspiration of the Holy Spirit calls this span of time in Galatians 3:23-25, before the faith came and after the faith did come, that removed one from being under the law, the schoolmaster, to being, under grace.

              Now compare this truth with my post #15 of thread, "What is Faith," copied to below, and see if both do not say the same truth.

              From that thread.

              What was hoped for yet not seen by man.

              In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2

              But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Tim. 1:10

              What brought forth the thing hoped for. What brought forth something never seen before by man.

              Could the man of sin even have this hope? Would it be required for the one to receive this promise of hope to be sinless yet give his life?

              What is faith?

              For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Cor. 15:3

              For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, ye are yet in your sins, your faith vain. 1 Cor. 15:16,17

              Christ dying for our sins is vain if the Father has not raised him from the dead by resurrection.

              Keep in mind it is Christ and Christ alone to this date who has been resurrected from the dead in this manner.

              Jesus had to die for our sins and had to be raised from the dead by the Father and given the promise of the Holy Spirit before the Holy Spirit, the Comforter could come to us.

              Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:32,33

              This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal. 3:2 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith. Gal. 3:14

              What they heard about by which they received the Spirit was, Christ died for our sins and God the Father raised him from the dead, giving him the hoped for promise made by God before the beginning of time.

              Faith is Christ in you the hope of glory, the very same hope you are a joint heir of with Christ; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7 or as stated in Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. (last verse added for this post)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                I've got to say, I am encouraged that no one has yet answered outright "Yes" to the poll question. This tells me that people are at least carefully considering this important issue, even if we don't all agree. (By the way, if someone does answer "Yes," my impression will apply to you too, as long as you explain how you came to that conclusion!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                  If you are in Christ, you're no longer under law, but under grace. It's by His grace that we're saved.

                  When he was on the cross, he died for past, present, and future sins of the whole world. So, even when one becomes apart of the body of Christ, we were warned by Paul in Gal 5:16-17, that we should walk in the Spirit and we would not fulfilled the lust of the flesh. We still have the same sinful nature that we were born with inside us, but it's at war with the Spirit of God that is now inside us, because they are contrary to another. That's why it's important that we continuously feed the Spirit and not the flesh, but reading/studying our bibles daily, praying without ceasing, watching what we read, watch, hear.

                  God knew we would still sin, even as after we became his, so that's why we have 1 John 1:9, which states, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

                  This doesn't give believers a licence to go buck wild and sin for the fun of sinning, but it doesn't give us a death sentence each time we mess up and we will mess up. WE will not lose our salvation, but if you sin, you will get out of fellowship with God and the Holy Spirit will just convict you until you confess and repent.

                  Heb 8:12 says this : For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

                  So, when we who are in Christ, confess that sin, he forgives us and remember that sin no more. Our sins were nailed to the cross a long time ago, so after our confession, we shouldn't bear it no more. That's a gracious and forgiving Father that we serve.

                  If anyone has like a reoccuring sin that is like a regular thing, like cussing for an example; talk to the Lord about it and say "Hey I want to stop cussing, I know its bad and against your word, please help." He'll hear you out for sure, just be upfront about it.

                  He knows that we're going to screw up, he just want us to be honest with him when we do. It's a learning process for all of us still.
                  My favorite quotes from my favorite people

                  "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me - Batman/Batman Begins"

                  "You got to learn to love yourself" - Grandma

                  "I am, who I am; deal with it." - Me

                  "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me" - Jesus Christ

                  "Whatever" - Mama

                  "Ugh!!!!" - Baby Sister

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                    If God has grace for Christians who sin, surely His grace extends to Christians who make an effort not to sin.
                    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                      Paul says:
                      "I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died" (Rom. 7:9).
                      "Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?" (Gal. 4:21).
                      "...all who sin under the law will be judge by the law (Rom. 2:12).
                      "...the wages of sin is death..." (Rom. 6:23).
                      "...the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives" (Rom. 7:1).
                      "...you were made to die to the Law..." (Rom. 7:4).
                      "But now we have been released from the Law..." (Rom. 7:6).
                      But now apart from the Law…” (Rom. 3:21).

                      Notice Paul says he was alive apart from the law, and according to Rom. 3:21, we are again "apart from the law."

                      "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!" (Rom. 6:15).

                      How can a law (“you sin, you die”) that has no jurisdiction over us condemn us?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                        Originally posted by psyche643 View Post
                        ... our future sins are forgiven too. Otherwise (as has been brought up in some other threads,) if I followed Christ my whole life but sinned in my dying breath, I'd be screwed. Thank you, Lord!
                        I've heard that, but I've never seen any scripture that even mentions 'future' sins. All I see is that Christians are forgiven for sins in the past.

                        Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

                        Becoming Christian means repentance from sin. All I see about future sin is "Go and sin no more", and "We are crucified with Christ .. the life that I live, I live by faith in the son of God".
                        Last edited by Raybob; Mar 23rd 2013, 06:03 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                          I really find these responses interesting. Most interesting is how all have neglected to admit what they believe we are to do IF we commit a sin after becoming His. I guess, from the responses so far, that everyone seems to believe that we are automatically forgiven and all is well.

                          So, which is it, my brothers and sisters? Is repentance and a request for forgiveness still required? Is it automatic so we don't have to be concerned with it? What if we do sin again and don't bother repenting of it?

                          I will assume, and it is probably safe since the bible says so, that we have all managed to sin again after accepting Jesus as Lord. What did we do about it? Did we repent and ask forgiveness? If we did not, what do we believe the bible tells us to do?
                          Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                          George Orwell

                          www.r2ucv.com



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                            Until I see people that don't die in the flesh, then I am inclined to believe that those that sin, will die.

                            All kidding aside, death is the result of sin. If by "die" you mean spiritual death, I am not inclined to believe that sin will lead to spiritual death the moment is is committed. Else, Jonah would have been "dead" while preaching one of the greatest revivals known to man.

                            I still think that physical death is on us because of sin and in that sense, the wages of sin is death.

                            Finally, another thought to consider... being cast into the lake of fire is the 2nd death. That too is the wage of sin.
                            Matt 9:13
                            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                            NASU

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                            • #15
                              Re: Are those in Christ still under the law that says, "You sin, you die"?

                              Originally posted by Boo View Post
                              I really find these responses interesting. Most interesting is how all have neglected to admit what they believe we are to do IF we commit a sin after becoming His. I guess, from the responses so far, that everyone seems to believe that we are automatically forgiven and all is well.

                              So, which is it, my brothers and sisters? Is repentance and a request for forgiveness still required? Is it automatic so we don't have to be concerned with it? What if we do sin again and don't bother repenting of it?

                              I will assume, and it is probably safe since the bible says so, that we have all managed to sin again after accepting Jesus as Lord. What did we do about it? Did we repent and ask forgiveness? If we did not, what do we believe the bible tells us to do?
                              I have many times sinned post-salvation. I've asked forgiveness and then sinned again. I don't know the correct answer to this, but you raise some good questions and I'll share my ideas.

                              I think the purpose of asking forgiveness and confessing sin is to restore our relationship to God - not that the relationship was severed, but that our sin separates us from Him, and we confess our sin to remove that barrier. The barrier was put there by us, not him, so we willingly tear it down and come back to Him who has been pursuing us.


                              When I sin against my husband, first I'm in denial. I notice the signs that he's upset but I deny that it's my fault. I am too cheerful when I talk to him because I'm trying to cover up the fact that there's something between us. Our conversation is jilted and shallow. Until I acknowledge what I've done, and apologize, that wall is going to be between us. My sin has gotten in the way of our relationship, but it hasn't ended our marriage.

                              So when I sin post-salvation, I believe I'm still saved, but I need to (again) come back to God.

                              All I know is, when God looks at me, he sees Jesus' blood. I believe that Jesus' blood doesn't go away and come back every time I think a sinful thought. Because even though I'm not always gossiping or lusting, I am always having little subconscious selfish thoughts.

                              I don't have Scriptural backup. I haven't looked, honestly - I just thought it was obvious that a God who loved us enough to send Jesus to die, wouldn't say "Jesus' blood couldn't save you, because you had one selfish thought before you died in that car crash."

                              But I'll think more about it. Thanks for the good questions.

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