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The case for Jesus

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  • The case for Jesus

    • He was born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14)
    • in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
    • From the lineage of Kinf David (Isaiah 9:7)
    • A messenger would prepare the way for him (Isaiah 40:3-5)
    • He would be rejected by his own people (Isaiah 53:3)
    • Pierced in his hands, feet and side (Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10)
    • Betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9)
    • Crucified with criminals (Isaiah 53:12)
    • Buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9)
    • He would rise from the dead (Psalm 16:10, 49:15)
    • He would ascend into heaven (Psalm 24:7-10)
    • he would be seated at God's right hand (Psalm 68:18, 110:1)


    The earliest OT prophesy: "....I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike your heel." (Genesis 3:14-15)

    More than 300 messianic prophesies were fulfilled by Jesus, some of them concentrated in Psalm 22. My general question to the audience of believers and nonbelievers is this: What is the probability of one man fulfilling over 300 OT prophesies, 1 and 1,000,000,000,000,000,000?
    I know what I know
    I know what I don't know
    I don't know what I don't know.

  • #2
    Re: The case for Jesus

    I've heard it as one in ten to the power of thirty four.
    Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.

    Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The case for Jesus

      Originally posted by Nick View Post
      • He was born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14)
      • in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)
      • From the lineage of Kinf David (Isaiah 9:7)
      • A messenger would prepare the way for him (Isaiah 40:3-5)
      • He would be rejected by his own people (Isaiah 53:3)
      • Pierced in his hands, feet and side (Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10)
      • Betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9)
      • Crucified with criminals (Isaiah 53:12)
      • Buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9)
      • He would rise from the dead (Psalm 16:10, 49:15)
      • He would ascend into heaven (Psalm 24:7-10)
      • he would be seated at God's right hand (Psalm 68:18, 110:1)


      The earliest OT prophesy: "....I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike your heel." (Genesis 3:14-15)

      More than 300 messianic prophesies were fulfilled by Jesus, some of them concentrated in Psalm 22. My general question to the audience of believers and nonbelievers is this: What is the probability of one man fulfilling over 300 OT prophesies, 1 and 1,000,000,000,000,000,000?
      There's a brother called Chuck Missler who is something of a mathematician. He once did the probabilities. I don't remember the exact figures but science calls something outside of probability at say 1 to the power of 17, and our Lord fulfilling over 330 prophecies literally was say 1 to the power of 54.

      The grand calculation must be those prophecies still to be fulfilled at His second coming - almost double those that have been fulfilled.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The case for Jesus

        I found these 12 verses to be great OT reference proofs for Jesus. I'm sure there are other good ones, but I like these. I can easily establish some baseline credibility in the OT based on when the manuscripts were first discovered and then rediscovered. Isaiah was a book of contention until the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1947. With the historical authentication of Isaiah I can then use those verses to clearly to point to Jesus, especially since it is now an established historical fact that Isaiah was written well before the birth of Jesus.
        I know what I know
        I know what I don't know
        I don't know what I don't know.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The case for Jesus

          I don't know the odds, but certainly higher than Tom can count without taking off his shoes...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The case for Jesus

            What's better than the odds is the revelation from the Father that Jesus is LORD.
            Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The case for Jesus

              Originally posted by keck553 View Post
              What's better than the odds is the revelation from the Father that Jesus is LORD.
              Some people think in terms of probability. The greater the probability the greater the likelihood. A CFO of a company will usually base his forecast on probabilities and confidence levels. The book of Revelation is a bunch of mumbo jumbo to a nonbeliever, even to most believers. You can clearly make the argument that one would have a MUCH greater probability of winning the lotto than one man (Jesus) fulfilling over 300 OT prophesies. That's a message that will resonate together with the historical fact of when the OT was written. Most people have heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls but don't fully understand or appreciate what they mean to establishing Jesus as the Messiah.
              I know what I know
              I know what I don't know
              I don't know what I don't know.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The case for Jesus

                Originally posted by Nick View Post
                Some people think in terms of probability. The greater the probability the greater the likelihood. A CFO of a company will usually base his forecast on probabilities and confidence levels. The book of Revelation is a bunch of mumbo jumbo to a nonbeliever, even to most believers. You can clearly make the argument that one would have a MUCH greater probability of winning the lotto than one man (Jesus) fulfilling over 300 OT prophesies. That's a message that will resonate together with the historical fact of when the OT was written. Most people have heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls but don't fully understand or appreciate what they mean to establishing Jesus as the Messiah.
                Jesus said the blind will not see. I don't doubt His Word.
                Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The case for Jesus

                  Originally posted by keck553 View Post
                  Jesus said the blind will not see. I don't doubt His Word.
                  I agree. Tell that to john146. This is just another angle to use, primarily with educated people, who God has aside set aside at birth to see the truth.
                  I know what I know
                  I know what I don't know
                  I don't know what I don't know.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The case for Jesus

                    Originally posted by Nick View Post
                    I agree. Tell that to john146. This is just another angle to use, primarily with educated people, who God has aside set aside at birth to see the truth.
                    I saw that one coming. But in reality the revelation comes to those who choose to surrender to Jesus.
                    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The case for Jesus

                      There's another way to looking at the Old Testament than just a checklist of predictions. A huge number of the alleged 300+ predictions, I don't believe were ever intended to be read the way most Christians do. The few that the NT do apply to Jesus, I think are being misunderstood as to how they're applying them to him. Obviously this doesn't prevent me from believing in Jesus as the Messiah, but here's the point:

                      A person has to first (a) believe there are actually 300+ predictions about the Messiah, and (b) that the NT didn't just make stuff up about some guy named Jesus.

                      The method of 'proof' being used is no different than, for example, Muslims quoting the New Testament to 'prove' that Muhammed was a long-awaited prophet of God. When you quote a list of 300+ prophecies Jesus 'fulfilled', you're really only going to get two reactions: agreement from people who already agree he is the Messiah, or disagreement from people who already disagree he is the Messiah. You can't prove someone into following Jesus. It's a matter of the whole self trusting in him, not just intellectual assent to probabilities about prophecies that might not even be prophecies.
                      To This Day

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                      • #12
                        Re: The case for Jesus

                        Originally posted by keck553 View Post
                        I saw that one coming. But in reality the revelation comes to those who choose to surrender to Jesus.
                        I don't want to get sidetracked. Surrendering to Jesus is a decision one makes when God puts the desire in that person's heart to do so. The desire comes from God and He has to open their eyes so they can see. To your point, that is why Jesus said blind will not see, and it is also why he spoke in parables. Those that can hear, will hear, and those that can see, will see (paraphrasing).
                        I know what I know
                        I know what I don't know
                        I don't know what I don't know.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The case for Jesus

                          Originally posted by markedward View Post
                          There's another way to looking at the Old Testament than just a checklist of predictions. A huge number of the alleged 300+ predictions, I don't believe were ever intended to be read the way most Christians do. The few that the NT do apply to Jesus, I think are being misunderstood as to how they're applying them to him. Obviously this doesn't prevent me from believing in Jesus as the Messiah, but here's the point:

                          A person has to first (a) believe there are actually 300+ predictions about the Messiah, and (b) that the NT didn't just make stuff up about some guy named Jesus.

                          The method of 'proof' being used is no different than, for example, Muslims quoting the New Testament to 'prove' that Muhammed was a long-awaited prophet of God. When you quote a list of 300+ prophecies Jesus 'fulfilled', you're really only going to get two reactions: agreement from people who already agree he is the Messiah, or disagreement from people who already disagree he is the Messiah. You can't prove someone into following Jesus. It's a matter of the whole self trusting in him, not just intellectual assent to probabilities about prophecies that might not even be prophecies.
                          Ok, let's simplify and take the 12 OT proofs I used. Do they all specifically refer to Jesus? Some argue that "Pierced in his hands, feet and side" was not a reference to Jesus. What do you think?
                          I know what I know
                          I know what I don't know
                          I don't know what I don't know.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The case for Jesus

                            Originally posted by Nick View Post
                            I agree. Tell that to john146. This is just another angle to use, primarily with educated people, who God has aside set aside at birth to see the truth.
                            Do you have to mention me in every thread you post in? If you have a problem with me and my views then let's talk about it privately rather than you insulting me in threads that I may not even be reading (I don't read them all, by any means). Deal? By the way, I have no problem with what keck553 said at all, so I'm not sure why you told him to tell it to me.

                            I actually think this topic you brought it up here is a great one and I love discussing it but you obviously have serious disdain for me so I guess I'll have to discuss it with everyone else. I'm open to discussing it with you as well, but not if you don't want me to.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The case for Jesus

                              Originally posted by John146 View Post
                              Do you have to mention me in every thread you post in? If you have a problem with me and my views then let's talk about it privately rather than you insulting me in threads that I may not even be reading (I don't read them all, by any means). Deal? By the way, I have no problem with what keck553 said at all, so I'm not sure why you told him to tell it to me.

                              I actually think this topic you brought it up here is a great one and I love discussing it but you obviously have serious disdain for me so I guess I'll have to discuss it with everyone else. I'm open to discussing it with you as well, but not if you don't want me to.
                              You're right. I was wrong. You comments on the other thread rubbed me the wrong way because I allowed them to. I have serious disdain for sanctimonious people who find it necessary to talk down to others to make a point. Jesus did too.
                              I know what I know
                              I know what I don't know
                              I don't know what I don't know.

                              Comment

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