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  • Discussion David's Throne

    Is not David's throne an earthly throne?
    The Bible tells us that the Lord will reign from David's throne.

    Isaiah 9:6-8
    6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the increase of his government and peace
    there will be no end.
    He will reign on David's throne
    and over his kingdom,
    establishing and upholding it
    with justice and righteousness
    from that time on and forever.
    The zeal of the LORD Almighty
    will accomplish this.


    Davids throne is not an everlasting throne. Christs throne though is eternal. don't we have a physical throne being ruled on by the Lord and a spiritual throne. Once the earth is destroyed David's throne exists no more. But the Son of David will reign forever.
    John 8:31-32



    31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


    Dizzy

  • #2
    Well, the chair he sat on won't exist, sure, it already doesn't exist today, but the office he held of King, which is what the "Throne" means, will never cease to exist, as Christ's Kingship will last forever.

    I'm not sure what the issue is.
    ----------------------------------------------
    When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
      Well, the chair he sat on won't exist, sure, it already doesn't exist today, but the office he held of King, which is what the "Throne" means, will never cease to exist, as Christ's Kingship will last forever.

      I'm not sure what the issue is.
      I think that the "Throne" means the King of the Jews. So our Lord is on that "Throne" spiritually speaking as long as He's authorized to be the King of the Jews, disregarding the physical "Throne".

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hawkins View Post
        I think that the "Throne" means the King of the Jews. So our Lord is on that "Throne" spiritually speaking as long as He's authorized to be the King of the Jews, disregarding the physical "Throne".
        What do you mean "spiritually speaking"?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
          Isaiah 9:6-8
          6 For to us a child is born,
          to us a son is given,
          and the government will be on his shoulders.
          And he will be called
          Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
          Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
          7 Of the increase of his government and peace
          there will be no end.
          He will reign on David's throne
          and over his kingdom
          ,
          establishing and upholding it
          with justice and righteousness
          from that time on and forever
          .
          The zeal of the LORD Almighty
          will accomplish this.


          Davids throne is not an everlasting throne.
          The context of the verse from Isaiah is speaking eternally and everlastingly.

          Of course Jesus, (the fulfillment), not David (the pre-type) is the subject.

          Luke re-quoted and paraphrased Isaiah when announcing the birth of Christ incarnate:

          Luke 1:31 "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

          "Throne of David" is an analogy to "ultimate reign"....

          Just like "cats and dogs" is an analogy to "ultimate rain"...

          (didn't mean to make a pun, but it works well here)

          "Throne of David" is also used in that same everlasting analogy in the O.T. at times; confirming Luke and Isaiah's useage of it.

          I Kings 2:45 And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.

          We can easily see that the throne of David under Solomon wasn't estabilised forever....the intent of this passage was pointing to Christ, the everlasting King who reigns on the throne of David for ever.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
            Is not David's throne an earthly throne?
            The Bible tells us that the Lord will reign from David's throne.

            Isaiah 9:6-8
            6 For to us a child is born,
            to us a son is given,
            and the government will be on his shoulders.
            And he will be called
            Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
            Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
            7 Of the increase of his government and peace
            there will be no end.
            He will reign on David's throne
            and over his kingdom,
            establishing and upholding it
            with justice and righteousness
            from that time on and forever.
            The zeal of the LORD Almighty
            will accomplish this.


            Davids throne is not an everlasting throne. Christs throne though is eternal. don't we have a physical throne being ruled on by the Lord and a spiritual throne. Once the earth is destroyed David's throne exists no more. But the Son of David will reign forever.
            That passage is not referring to an earthly throne, but a heavenly one. That is a prophecy regarding Christ taking His place in power as King in heaven. This took place upon His resurrection and subsequent ascension to the right hand of the Father in heaven.

            29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
            31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
            32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
            33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
            34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
            35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
            36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

            Jesus is the King of God's people just as David was in his day. That is what it means when it speaks of Jesus reigning on David's throne. Notice verse 30 above. It quotes from this prophecy:

            Psalm 132
            11The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.
            12If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.

            If this was referring to an earthly throne, then how could it be that all the children (descendants) who keep the covenant would sit upon the throne? That would have to be an awfully big throne if it was a literal earthly one.

            In reference to that prophecy from Psalm 132:11, Peter says "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ". So, Peter is saying the resurrection of Christwas directly related to the fulfillment of that prophecy. Certainly, Christ is now at the right hand of the Father exalted as King and reigning from the throne. Scripture clearly teaches this.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
              Is not David's throne an earthly throne?
              The Bible tells us that the Lord will reign from David's throne.

              Isaiah 9:6-8
              6 For to us a child is born,
              to us a son is given,
              and the government will be on his shoulders.
              And he will be called
              Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
              Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
              7 Of the increase of his government and peace
              there will be no end.
              He will reign on David's throne
              and over his kingdom,
              establishing and upholding it
              with justice and righteousness
              from that time on and forever.
              The zeal of the LORD Almighty
              will accomplish this.
              What is interesting is that It will be a government. It will have no end and it will be a governed by peace.
              He will reign on David's throne, and He will reign over his kingdom.
              Does this speak of Him reigning over David's kingdom? Who did David's kingdom consist of?
              Naturally, when Jesus reigns the Throne, the government and the Kingdom will be His, if seen in the other respect, David's kingdom was Israel. That was his kingdom.
              I have a Blog. Please visit!

              My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

              Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by John146 View Post

                If this was referring to an earthly throne, then how could it be that all the children (descendants) who keep the covenant would sit upon the throne? That would have to be an awfully big throne if it was a literal earthly one.
                A very weak example could be we have a President, (not a king) who lives and operates from the White House, (not a throne) but many operate from the White House with and under him. Maybe?
                I have a Blog. Please visit!

                My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by My heart's Desire View Post
                  A very weak example could be we have a President, (not a king) who lives and operates from the White House, (not a throne) but many operate from the White House with and under him. Maybe?
                  Where does Jesus operate from? He is on the throne at the right hand of the Father...where?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by My heart's Desire View Post
                    What is interesting is that It will be a government. It will have no end and it will be a governed by peace.
                    He will reign on David's throne, and He will reign over his kingdom.
                    Does this speak of Him reigning over David's kingdom? Who did David's kingdom consist of?
                    Naturally, when Jesus reigns the Throne, the government and the Kingdom will be His, if seen in the other respect, David's kingdom was Israel. That was his kingdom.
                    You don't believe that Jesus is King of His kingdom right now and that we are in His kingdom? If not, please explain the following passages:

                    Col 1
                    12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
                    13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

                    John 18
                    36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
                    37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
                    Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king
                    . For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

                    Luke 17
                    20Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
                    21nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And these:

                      Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos"

                      Daniel 4:3 "How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom"

                      2 Peter 1:11 "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Christ does not rule over the earthly kingdom, Satan has rule over this kingdom. When Christ returns He will bind Satan and rule from it. Then all kingdoms are the Lords and He shall reign forever. Satan has been judged but he has not been punished yet, he still rules this world, he is still the prince of the air

                        Ephesians 2:2
                        Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

                        Matthew 4:7-9
                        7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

                        Satan has rule of the kingdoms of the earth at the present time.

                        John 16:5-11
                        5 “But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

                        Because of Christ's death and resurrection, Christ brings judgment on Satan and the world who rebels against Christ. The time has been appointed and their punishment for their rebellion has been set.

                        Christ must reign until everything is put under His rule. Since this earthly kingdom isn't under His rule, doesn't that mean He has to come back and reign from it. In other words He has to reign from Jerusalem from David's throne over Israel and the whole world, who will be in subject to Him.

                        As it has been said David's throne is an earthly throne, Christ's throne is a spiritual throne that last eternally.

                        Christ can not deliver up the earthly kingdom to God until He has taken possession of it from Satan. Satan took possession of the earthly kingdom when Adam sinned, Christ will take possession when He finally defeats Satan at the end of the millennial reign and he will cast Satan and all that followed him into the lake of fire.

                        1 Corinthians 15:23-28
                        23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

                        27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
                        When the millennial reign comes to a close Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the false prophet and the beast are. Christ has the kingdom under His authority and He hands it over to the father. At this point we see the Great White Throne judgment where death is the last enemy to be destroyed cast into the lake of fire.
                        John 8:31-32



                        31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                        Dizzy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                          And these:

                          Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos"

                          Daniel 4:3 "How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom"

                          2 Peter 1:11 "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth."
                          So you believe these three passages above are talking about Satan's Kingdom?

                          Hhhhhmmmmm...I really can't see that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                            What do you mean "spiritually speaking"?
                            Basically and physically, the Jews don't seem to realize that Jesus is their Lord and King. That's why I said actually and spiritually He is their Lord and King.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                              So you believe these three passages above are talking about Satan's Kingdom?

                              Hhhhhmmmmm...I really can't see that.

                              Hi David,
                              No. They speak of the heavenly kingdom of which we are apart of.

                              John 8:23
                              And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

                              John 18:36
                              Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

                              Luke 20:29-35

                              29There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. 30And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. 31And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. 32Last of all the woman died also. 33Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife. 34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

                              Jesus speaks of two worlds here the physical and the spiritual, we belong to the spiritual world not this world.
                              The verses you have quoted in the previos post are speaking of the spiritual world which we belong to, even though we live in the physical world at the moment we are told we will suffer whilst in this earthly world until we die, are raptured or the Lord returns which ever way it is, we are here in this physical world as spiritual beings trapped in a physical body until we are changed.
                              John 8:31-32



                              31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                              Dizzy

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