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Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

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  • Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

    Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” (Romans 12:19, ESV)

    David wrote in Ps. 109

    Be not silent, O God of my praise!
    For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me,
    speaking against me with lying tongues.
    They encircle me with words of hate,
    and attack me without cause.
    In return for my love they accuse me,
    but I give myself to prayer.
    So they reward me evil for good,
    and hatred for my love.
    Appoint a wicked man against him;
    let an accuser stand at his right hand.
    When he is tried, let him come forth guilty;
    let his prayer be counted as sin!
    May his days be few;
    may another take his office!
    May his children be fatherless
    and his wife a widow!
    May his children wander about and beg,
    seeking food far from the ruins they inhabit!
    May the creditor seize all that he has;
    may strangers plunder the fruits of his toil!
    Let there be none to extend kindness to him,
    nor any to pity his fatherless children!
    May his posterity be cut off;
    may his name be blotted out in the second generation!
    May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord,
    and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out!
    Let them be before the Lord continually,
    that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth!
    For he did not remember to show kindness,
    but pursued the poor and needy
    and the brokenhearted, to put them to death.
    He loved to curse; let curses come upon him!
    He did not delight in blessing; may it be far from him!
    He clothed himself with cursing as his coat;
    may it soak into his body like water,
    like oil into his bones!
    May it be like a garment that he wraps around him,
    like a belt that he puts on every day!
    May this be the reward of my accusers from the Lord,
    of those who speak evil against my life!
    But you, O God my Lord,
    deal on my behalf for your name's sake;
    because your steadfast love is good, deliver me!
    For I am poor and needy,
    and my heart is stricken within me.
    I am gone like a shadow at evening;
    I am shaken off like a locust.
    My knees are weak through fasting;
    my body has become gaunt, with no fat.
    I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
    when they see me, they wag their heads.
    Help me, O Lord my God!
    Save me according to your steadfast love!
    Let them know that this is your hand;
    you, O Lord, have done it!
    Let them curse, but you will bless!
    They arise and are put to shame, but your servant will be glad!
    May my accusers be clothed with dishonor;
    may they be wrapped in their own shame as in a cloak!
    With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord;
    I will praise him in the midst of the throng.
    For he stands at the right hand of the needy one,
    to save him from those who condemn his soul to death.
    I know what I know
    I know what I don't know
    I don't know what I don't know.

  • #2
    Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

    "Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?"
    Are you asking or telling? Either way, cp. Matt. 5:44; Luke 6:28.
    You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.
    -Nietzsche


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    • #3
      Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

      Don't ask for vengeance. You can't handle it.

      Let God have vengeance.

      Justbaskmhim to,let you watch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

        I don't feel we should pray for us to get vengence but I think it might be allright to pray for the Lord to His vengence.
        Live the Halleluyah life

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        • #5
          Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

          Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

          Prayer is the catch all bucket it seems. Things that we can do nothing about, we are able to unburden ourselves of it and trust God in the matter.

          Imagine God receiving David's requests of imprecation upon his and His enemies. David's heart in these matters seemingly pleased God. What aspect of it did God find pleasing?

          Wrath and vengeance are filled to the brim with emotional components in my opinion. Surely our view, and in the Bible given to us, the human aspect of this is emphasized as we can't approach understanding God in these matters. We understand these matters as God has given us to understand them. For me, I don't imagine an apathetic God keeping a cosmic scoreboard on the heavenly abacus. But is it right to feel satisfaction that in the end, they (me and God's enemies ) will get recompensed accordingly? I would say that is Biblical, but kind of taboo at the same time.

          When God sent Nathan the Prophet to the King of Israel, He knew David's heart, and also his sin that was polluting it. It is instructive to see how David, as King, received the parable that Nathan declared. David responded regarding the injustice suffered by the poor man at the hands of the rich man with: "2 Samuel 12:5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die: 6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity." We know the rest of the story, but perhaps David touched on the "be angry, and sin not" aspect of this topic (Ephesians 4:26-27).

          Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

          Nick, I would like to ask you a question based on my biased impression of the reformed view. Do you sense that imprecation is embraced or even needful to the reformed view? For whatever reason, I tend to feel it is emphasized. Perhaps when one believes in unconditional election, the taboo nature of this is less restrictive and the human emotional aspect encouraged. Those of perdition have no hope and all that remains is for their wicked deeds to be cut short or recompensed. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, only something I believe to sense, perhaps as a corollary to "the doctrines of grace".
          Watchinginawe

          I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

            Originally posted by M_Wm_Ferguson_MTh View Post
            Are you asking or telling? Either way, cp. Matt. 5:44; Luke 6:28.
            I was thinking of those passages too.
            John 10 (KJV)
            27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
            28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
            29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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            • #7
              Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

              I wouldn't. It's like asking for something bad to happen to someone. Leave it to God. If you want something good to happen to them, pray. Or if you have trouble with someone, ask God to help you.

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              • #8
                Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

                Here's a petition, right out of the Bible:

                "and they cried with a great voice, saying, How long, O Master, the holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
                Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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                • #9
                  Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

                  Originally posted by RabbiKnife View Post
                  Don't ask for vengeance. You can't handle it.

                  Let God have vengeance.

                  Justbaskmhim to,let you watch.

                  I would add...Remembering, whatsoever a man sows that he shall also reap!

                  David praying for it does not make it God's will...

                  Take the general principle, "A gentle answer turneth away wrath". Does it always? No! Obviously not. This is not a promise, it is a principle founded on wisdom that directs us to the right path, but everything people did as recorded in the Bible are not what God wants us to also do. Sometimes they are an example for us to not do. For example it is true Peter lied when he denied, but his lie was not the truth nor the WAY we should go...it is just a statement to show us something about ourselves we can and should if possible avoid doing.

                  Brother Paul

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                  • #10
                    Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

                    Originally posted by TravelingFurHunter View Post
                    I wouldn't. It's like asking for something bad to happen to someone. Leave it to God. If you want something good to happen to them, pray. Or if you have trouble with someone, ask God to help you.
                    I agree with you... turning somebody over to satan/destruction is actually a cry for mercy, for God to use whatever He must to bring that person to their knees. But to pray for the demise of anyone when God Himself desires that none should be lost, is our duty. He extended a hand of mercy to me when I didn't deserve it, so I believe we are to do the same for others especially knowing that we will be judged as we judge others! I would rather leave the vengeance to God and spend my time reaching out to the lost or those who seek to take a deeper step!

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                    • #11
                      Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

                      Perhaps the first question should be:

                      Are vengeance and justice the same thing?

                      Perhaps the first question should be:

                      Are vengeance and justice the same thing?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

                        "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." - Romans 12:19.
                        and
                        "All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us." - Amos 9:10.

                        Be careful what you pray for!
                        John 10 (KJV)
                        27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
                        28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
                        29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

                          A lesson can be learned from this account:

                          Luke 9:54-55, "And when His disciples, Yaaqob and Yahchanan, saw this, they said; Teacher, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Yliyah did? But He turned, and rebuked them, and said: You do not know to what spirit you belong."

                          A lesson can be learned from this account:

                          Luke 9:54-55, "And when His disciples, Yaaqob and Yahchanan, saw this, they said; Teacher, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Yliyah did? But He turned, and rebuked them, and said: You do not know to what spirit you belong."

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                          • #14
                            Just to stir the pot a bit ... Is it good to ask God for vengeance?

                            (Rev 6:9 [NET])
                            Now when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been violently killed because of the word of God and because of the testimony they had given.

                            (Rev 6:10 [NET])
                            They cried out with a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Master, holy and true, before you judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”

                            (Rev 6:11 [NET])
                            Each of them was given a long white robe and they were told to rest for a little longer, until the full number was reached of both their fellow servants and their brothers who were going to be killed just as they had been.

                            Thanks,
                            Ed

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is it biblical to pray for vengeance?

                              Originally posted by Hizikyah View Post
                              A lesson can be learned from this account:

                              Luke 9:54-55, "And when His disciples, Yaaqob and Yahchanan, saw this, they said; Teacher, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Yliyah did? But He turned, and rebuked them, and said: You do not know to what spirit you belong."

                              A lesson can be learned from this account:

                              Luke 9:54-55, "And when His disciples, Yaaqob and Yahchanan, saw this, they said; Teacher, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Yliyah did? But He turned, and rebuked them, and said: You do not know to what spirit you belong."
                              What translation of the Bible do you use? I have trouble knowing who on earth you are talking about with names like "Yaaqob and Yahchanan". Your posts are very confusing to me. Is English not your first language?
                              My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

                              "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

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