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  • #46
    Re: What makes a doctrine false?

    Originally posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    And once more, I ask you, who makes that determination?
    God does. Our job is to really know what God has given us. It depends on the degree that we are willing to read, willing to listen, willing to study and understand.

    In the years that I have been a student of the bible and observing the fruit of the spirit in others, I have learned a few things.

    I have learned:

    1. Many who claim to study the bible do not.
    2. Many who claim to believe anything the bible says do not.
    3. Many who claim to love their neighbors do not.
    4. Many who claim to have an open spiritual mind do not.
    5. Many who have claimed to overcome pride have not.

    However, when observing these people, they seem to act just like everyone else while in church.

    If my beliefs in what the bible actually says conflicts with what you have determined to be the truth, God knows who is correct. My responsibility is to God. If I refuse to study and think and believe, it is all on me. If I determine a thing to be true and teach it, I had better be correct. If I do not know something for sure, I don't teach it as a truth. I may discuss it as a possible truth, but if I see contradictions anywhere else in scripture, I admit that I have not yet reached "the truth."

    I would suppose that all of us here have reached some of the same truths. That is why we are Christians. Can we allow each other to still be seeking the final truth?
    Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
    George Orwell

    www.r2ucv.com



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    • #47
      Re: What makes a doctrine false?

      Personally, if I'm going to "know someone" it will be by their fruit. If they say the study/believe the Bible, do they go to church? Do they give? Do they help the poor and needy? Do they have a strong prayer life? Do they love their wife like Christ loves the church? Are they a good parent? Do they have the fruit of the Spirit? Are they faithful? Etc.

      Maybe some people make this judgment based on one's eschatological beliefs... But if you aren't doing the above, then it makes no difference if your pre and post beliefs are accurate.
      Originally posted by Nick View Post
      They can appear do all the things mentioned above and still be a phony out for the approval of men and not God.
      I was thinking something similar Nick.
      A person can build their life on appearances so that no one (even themselves?) will know just how far away from God their heart is.
      People give too much credit to appearances-- rather than what comes from the heart.
      Now if the inside is clean, the outside will be made clean. Sometimes this outer appearance takes time to translate from the inside.
      The outside being clean does not automatically denote the inside being clean.

      Galatians 5:22-23.
      But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

      Here's a test: Observe a person with these character traits, and THEN ask them what their theology is and what doctrine they observe.
      Peace to you!

      It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God葉hat is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

      1 Corinthians 1:30

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: What makes a doctrine false?

        Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
        I was thinking something similar Nick.
        A person can build their life on appearances so that no one (even themselves?) will know just how far away from God their heart is.
        People give too much credit to appearances-- rather than what comes from the heart.
        Now if the inside is clean, the outside will be made clean. Sometimes this outer appearance takes time to translate from the inside.
        The outside being clean does not automatically denote the inside being clean.

        Galatians 5:22-23.
        But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

        Here's a test: Observe a person with these character traits, and THEN ask them what their theology is and what doctrine they observe.

        Very good! What is our doctrine doing for us?

        Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.



        sigpic
        מרן אתא

        Walk in the Light!
        התהלכו באור

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        • #49
          Re: What makes a doctrine false?

          Originally posted by episkopos View Post
          Very good! What is our doctrine doing for us?
          Yes...IS my relationship with God growing deeper,...or waxing cold.
          Peace to you!

          It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God葉hat is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

          1 Corinthians 1:30

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: What makes a doctrine false?

            Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
            Yes...IS my relationship with God growing deeper,...or waxing cold.
            A bad doctrine is like going down the wrong road. After awhile you start to feel you are getting further from the truth..not closer. That's the time to repent (turn around) and get back on track!

            Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.



            sigpic
            מרן אתא

            Walk in the Light!
            התהלכו באור

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: What makes a doctrine false?

              Originally posted by episkopos View Post
              Very good! What is our doctrine doing for us?
              Is this like the chicken or the egg?

              The doctrines I land on help me to draw closer to God. As I draw closer to God, my life changes. As my life changes, I am able to live more as He wants me to live - not because I am acting like a child of God but because I am a child of God. God changes me.

              Our doctrines are simply the truths we cling to. If I have a doctrine that does not serve to draw me closer to being like Jesus , that doctrine needs repair.
              Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
              George Orwell

              www.r2ucv.com



              Comment


              • #52
                Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                Originally posted by Boo View Post
                Is this like the chicken or the egg?

                The doctrines I land on help me to draw closer to God. As I draw closer to God, my life changes. As my life changes, I am able to live more as He wants me to live - not because I am acting like a child of God but because I am a child of God. God changes me.


                Our doctrines are simply the truths we cling to. If I have a doctrine that does not serve to draw me closer to being like Jesus , that doctrine needs repair.
                It might be both the chicken and the egg.

                Neither exist without the other.
                Peace to you!

                It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God葉hat is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

                1 Corinthians 1:30

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                  Like one other posted stated, we are all at different levels of understanding. Our spiritual walk with the Lord is based on our understanding (Wisdom) of scriptures. Every body starts out looking through a glass darkly. Some see more clearly that others. Love always wants to share what it has, so others can enjoy it to. Obviously if you don't understand something in the Bible, and someone else does, there will a time of weighing weather or not it is true to you. But this can only be discerned by the anointing that dwells in each of us. It is a time of "work". It takes work to believe the Bible, because revelation from the Spirit of God will always sound foolish to the natural man. Overcoming this is sometimes is difficult, and sometimes on this forum seems dangerous. Like the Apostle Paul he tells to walk according to the level we are at, if we are wrong on some points God will reveal this to you.

                  Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
                  Php 3:15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
                  Php 3:16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                    Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                    Like one other posted stated, we are all at different levels of understanding. Our spiritual walk with the Lord is based on our understanding (Wisdom) of scriptures. Every body starts out looking through a glass darkly. Some see more clearly that others. Love always wants to share what it has, so others can enjoy it to. Obviously if you don't understand something in the Bible, and someone else does, there will a time of weighing weather or not it is true to you. But this can only be discerned by the anointing that dwells in each of us. It is a time of "work". It takes work to believe the Bible, because revelation from the Spirit of God will always sound foolish to the natural man. Overcoming this is sometimes is difficult, and sometimes on this forum seems dangerous. Like the Apostle Paul he tells to walk according to the level we are at, if we are wrong on some points God will reveal this to you.

                    Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
                    Php 3:15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
                    Php 3:16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
                    Im not sure I agree with you Curtis on this point:

                    If a person is born again, they DO have spiritual insight to Gods Word.
                    Even the youngest in the faith has some of the most profound things to say coming from a pure, un-muddy by different teachings heart-
                    God's way of ever reminding for the tried and true longstanding believers! I love babies in Christ.

                    If there is something that sounds foolish to me, being born again, Why could it not be spiritual discernment at work seeing it's foolishness, rather than having to "work" or push understanding into place by means of the flesh?
                    Peace to you!

                    It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God葉hat is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

                    1 Corinthians 1:30

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                      Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
                      Im not sure I agree with you Curtis on this point:

                      If a person is born again, they DO have spiritual insight to Gods Word.
                      Even the youngest in the faith has some of the most profound things to say coming from a pure, un-muddy by different teachings heart-
                      God's way of ever reminding for the tried and true longstanding believers! I love babies in Christ.

                      If there is something that sounds foolish to me, being born again, Why could it not be spiritual discernment at work seeing it's foolishness, rather than having to "work" or push understanding into place by means of the flesh?
                      It all depends on what you are using as the standard in judging something weather is right or wrong. If it is your mind you are using to determine truth or error then you will get it wrong.
                      The human mind is the easiest thing to deceive. Christ (anointing) can not be deceived it knows all things. We are to trust in the Lord with all our hearts, and lean not upon our own understanding.
                      This is part of overcoming the flesh. The flesh never gives up, it wants to control everything.

                      2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh.
                      2Co 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.
                      2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                        Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
                        I was thinking something similar Nick.
                        A person can build their life on appearances so that no one (even themselves?) will know just how far away from God their heart is.
                        People give too much credit to appearances-- rather than what comes from the heart.

                        Now if the inside is clean, the outside will be made clean. Sometimes this outer appearance takes time to translate from the inside.
                        The outside being clean does not automatically denote the inside being clean.

                        Galatians 5:22-23.
                        But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

                        Here's a test: Observe a person with these character traits, and THEN ask them what their theology is and what doctrine they observe.
                        That's the point I've been getting at. We can all fake Gal 5:22-23. I know I have before when I was seeking the approval of others and I still catch myself doing it today if I'm honest with myself. If I'm steadfastly opposed to someone else's doctrine that disagrees with mine am I exhibiting Gal 5:22-23 or am I hiding behind 2 Tim 3:16, which is really a reference to the OT than it is the NT? Am I trying to help the person "see the light" or am I set out to wrong him? There is a fine line between the two, the latter coming from pride and the former coming from love and humility.
                        I know what I know
                        I know what I don't know
                        I don't know what I don't know.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                          Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                          It all depends on what you are using as the standard in judging something weather is right or wrong. If it is your mind you are using to determine truth or error then you will get it wrong.
                          The human mind is the easiest thing to deceive. Christ (anointing) can not be deceived it knows all things. We are to trust in the Lord with all our hearts, and lean not upon our own understanding.
                          This is part of overcoming the flesh. The flesh never gives up, it wants to control everything.

                          2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh.
                          2Co 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.
                          2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
                          By the manifestation of the discernment of spirits 1 Corinthians 12:9 A gift of the Spirit from God, developed over time.
                          Peace to you!

                          It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God葉hat is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

                          1 Corinthians 1:30

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                            Originally posted by Nick View Post
                            If you don't agree with 100% of a doctrine or a certain theology does that make it all false teaching? For example, there are certain tenets of the reformed theology I believe and other aspects that I'm not so sure. I don't see why that would make the entire doctrine false but some believe that.
                            What makes a doctrine false is when it goes against the word of God. Anytime scriptures are twisted for man's own perceptions, that's the creating a false doctrine. Like saying that one can lose their salvation, that's a false doctrine, because how can God put in his spirit into believers, if they can lose their salvation? A lot of people make up stuff and twist scripture, so that it sounds great to them, so it takes away from what the scripture said, the very warning that the end of Revelation was clear about.
                            My favorite quotes from my favorite people

                            "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me - Batman/Batman Begins"

                            "You got to learn to love yourself" - Grandma

                            "I am, who I am; deal with it." - Me

                            "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me" - Jesus Christ

                            "Whatever" - Mama

                            "Ugh!!!!" - Baby Sister

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                            • #59
                              Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                              Originally posted by Nick View Post
                              That's the point I've been getting at. We can all fake Gal 5:22-23.
                              I agree and disagree with you on this Nick. While life is good to go, this fruit can be faked (this I DO agree with) but even then, discerning Christians will see or sense the fake actions and discern the false fruit. The Holy Spirit WILL let them know. Another reason why I don't agree, while these example of fruit of the Holy Spirit can be faked while life is good to go, they are not easily faked when the fakER is put into a storm and/or trial. The REAL character emerges when a person is placed in the pressure cooker and causes the faults and impurities to be pressed out and they rise to the surface. However, when a person is TRUE in the bearing of such fruit... this same fruit CONTINUES to be manifest even in the WORSE of storms/trials.

                              Ever meet a Christian who lost their job, car... house over the last 6 months and radiate the JOY of Christ upon others, speaks of faith as one who hasn't lost anything, worships without ceasing, and freely discusses with others about the trial they are in and how God is so close to them during the worse times?

                              Fake is discernible and those walking in the spirit will discern a faker. The faker may never know because because God allowed the discernment for a purpose and it is usually to intercede for the faker. You see, scripture tells us that God, HATES a liar and a person who fakes things, is lying. Lying is listed in scriptures as an action that prevents people from entering heaven, based on the teaching(s) of the Bible. So, those who are lying and faking it... when a person in church discerns this lying and faking from someone, they are most likely going to go into prayer for that person because those who walk in the Spirit KNOW reasons for God allowing such discernment and in my personal experience, it is to intercede for such a person so that person will listen to the Holy Spirit for themselves and be CONVICTED of their sin of lying (faking).

                              You speak of faking (lying) about the fruits of the Spirit... while lying immediately killed Ananias and Sapphire, lying will kill any who do it and at the end of the race when they are judged as liars and as the Bible states... they don't get into heaven... who were they really faking out the whole time?

                              Thus is the deception of the enemy upon such a person and making them believe their faking is not discerned by other Christians who move in the Spirit.
                              --
                              Slug1--out

                              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

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                              • #60
                                Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                                Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                                I agree and disagree with you on this Nick. While life is good to go, this fruit can be faked (this I DO agree with) but even then, discerning Christians will see or sense the fake actions and discern the false fruit. The Holy Spirit WILL let them know. Another reason why I don't agree, while these example of fruit of the Holy Spirit can be faked while life is good to go, they are not easily faked when the fakER is put into a storm and/or trial. The REAL character emerges when a person is placed in the pressure cooker and causes the faults and impurities to be pressed out and they rise to the surface. However, when a person is TRUE in the bearing of such fruit... this same fruit CONTINUES to be manifest even in the WORSE of storms/trials.

                                Ever meet a Christian who lost their job, car... house over the last 6 months and radiate the JOY of Christ upon others, speaks of faith as one who hasn't lost anything, worships without ceasing, and freely discusses with others about the trial they are in and how God is so close to them during the worse times?

                                Fake is discernible and those walking in the spirit will discern a faker. The faker may never know because because God allowed the discernment for a purpose and it is usually to intercede for the faker. You see, scripture tells us that God, HATES a liar and a person who fakes things, is lying. Lying is listed in scriptures as an action that prevents people from entering heaven, based on the teaching(s) of the Bible. So, those who are lying and faking it... when a person in church discerns this lying and faking from someone, they are most likely going to go into prayer for that person because those who walk in the Spirit KNOW reasons for God allowing such discernment and in my personal experience, it is to intercede for such a person so that person will listen to the Holy Spirit for themselves and be CONVICTED of their sin of lying (faking).

                                You speak of faking (lying) about the fruits of the Spirit... while lying immediately killed Ananias and Sapphire, lying will kill any who do it and at the end of the race when they are judged as liars and as the Bible states... they don't get into heaven... who were they really faking out the whole time?

                                Thus is the deception of the enemy upon such a person and making them believe their faking is not discerned by other Christians who move in the Spirit.
                                Lying may have immediately killed Ananias and Sapphire for the all the same reasons people lie today. However, lying doesn't result in such consequences. People not are dropping dead for lying to the Spirit. In our society, some people are so dependent on the approval of others that they will take a 30 week counseling class for 3hrs per week just for the prestige of being known on campus as a church counselor. They bear no fruit other than a name badge that says they do.

                                Unless you're intimately involved in the believer's life this type of "faking" can go unnoticed for a very long time not matter how discerning one thinks they are. And then when the trials comes the faking just continues, because again, it's more about the approval of men than it is glorifying God. I have been guilty of this, and I know for a fact I'm not alone. Then again, maybe faking it until you make it has some merit. Perhaps it's important to go through the motions of Christian living until it becomes routine and more natural. Like anything, practice strengthens the spiritual muscle just like exercise.
                                I know what I know
                                I know what I don't know
                                I don't know what I don't know.

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