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  • #76
    Re: What makes a doctrine false?

    Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    Perhaps if there are doctrines of this manner, they would be clearly defined.
    That's just it. Our flesh likes these doctrines. So most people don't look closer to see what is actually being edified (built up) by these doctrines. Chances are..if it sounds too easy...then it is!

    Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.



    sigpic
    מרן אתא

    Walk in the Light!
    התהלכו באור

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    • #77
      Re: What makes a doctrine false?

      Originally posted by episkopos View Post
      That's just it. Our flesh likes these doctrines. So most people don't look closer to see what is actually being edified (built up) by these doctrines. Chances are..if it sounds too easy...then it is!
      If you say you cannot say just say so.



      I LOVED the feeling that I might be caught unaware and whisked away from responsibility to witness, I have been attracted to the concept that no one is going to come to Christ unless they are destined to... And that I need not concern myself with if. Many doctrines of men placate the believer, and leave us content to be slothful.... My flesh loves these doctrines, but the truth is that we are all called to witness... And that our race is not run until we are present with The Lord.

      Blessings,
      When I read this I understood what you were saying Amos, and for whatever reason, a second thought came to mind.

      Hope you don't mind me taking a little part of your thought.

      To be whisked away to minister to others, when that is a distraction to letting God work within oneself.
      Is it not an easier fix and more enjoyable to "help" others clean up their yard, all the while avoiding ones own to ruin.
      Peace to you!

      It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

      1 Corinthians 1:30

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: What makes a doctrine false?

        Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
        To be whisked away to minister to others, when that is a distraction to letting God work within oneself.
        Is it not an easier fix and more enjoyable to "help" others clean up their yard, all the while avoiding ones own to ruin.
        If I dont' have the reports crossed, I once read that David Wilkerson was set down my God for about 2 years from his ministry due to what you are raising. He was putting the church and all the ministry first. God set him down to reestablish a personal relationship between them and once God was number ONE again, David resumed ministry work until his passing.
        --
        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

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        • #79
          Re: What makes a doctrine false?

          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
          If I dont' have the reports crossed, I once read that David Wilkerson was set down my God for about 2 years from his ministry due to what you are raising. He was putting the church and all the ministry first. God set him down to reestablish a personal relationship between them and once God was number ONE again, David resumed ministry work until his passing.
          I don't think it is unusual at all.

          That's why I think testimony as you share is important Slug1.
          Once a person is in leadership of a ministry, it doesn't mean that they no longer have any upkeep needs or time needed for themselves to rest and regenerate from giving of themselves. No one can serve if their cup runs empty.
          Peace to you!

          It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

          1 Corinthians 1:30

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: What makes a doctrine false?

            Originally posted by episkopos View Post
            That's just it. Our flesh likes these doctrines. So most people don't look closer to see what is actually being edified (built up) by these doctrines. Chances are..if it sounds too easy...then it is!
            I take it you're not a proponent of the Romans Road approach?
            I know what I know
            I know what I don't know
            I don't know what I don't know.

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            • #81
              Re: What makes a doctrine false?

              Originally posted by Nick View Post
              If you don't agree with 100% of a doctrine or a certain theology does that make it all false teaching? For example, there are certain tenets of the reformed theology I believe and other aspects that I'm not so sure. I don't see why that would make the entire doctrine false but some believe that.
              The important thing to remember is that there is theology/doctrines that historically the church proper have declared are essentials to the faith, and have recognized as being orthodox.

              They would include
              The Bible as inspired word/revelation of God
              Trinity
              Salvation by grace alone/faith alone
              Second Coming
              Jesus as ONLY way to have salvation
              water baptism

              And others...

              Within those orthodox doctrines, there is differences of opinions, like second coming has A Mil/pre/post etc
              Baptism has believers only, infant
              There are calvinists/arminians etc

              ALL of that is allowed, but CANNOT have positions such as NO second coming, Bible just partially true and accurate, jesus not God, MUST be batized etc, as those positions are outside what is seen as orthodox and correct doctrine!

              And about reformed theology...


              I also see s distinction on what they hold to, as believe with them on doctrines of grace, on theircalvinistic approach to salvation, but disagree with their Covenant theology other views, being Dispy myself in those other areas...

              Hope this helps!

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              • #82
                Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                Originally posted by Nick View Post
                I take it you're not a proponent of the Romans Road approach?
                I've heard of the Damascus road experience...even rocky road ice cream....but Roman Road?

                Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.



                sigpic
                מרן אתא

                Walk in the Light!
                התהלכו באור

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                  Originally posted by episkopos View Post
                  I've heard of the Damascus road experience...even rocky road ice cream....but Roman Road?

                  Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
                  Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
                  Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
                  Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."
                  Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
                  Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
                  Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
                  Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"
                  Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?"
                  Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
                  Rom 10:18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."
                  Rom 10:19 But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, "I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry."
                  Rom 10:20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me."
                  Rom 10:21 But of Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people."

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                  • #84
                    Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                    Doesn't it look more like this?

                    Romans 3:23 - "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
                    Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.
                    Romans 5:8 - "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
                    Romans 10:9-10 - "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."
                    Romans 10:13 - for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
                    I know what I know
                    I know what I don't know
                    I don't know what I don't know.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                      Originally posted by CaptKirk1 View Post
                      The important thing to remember is that there is theology/doctrines that historically the church proper have declared are essentials to the faith, and have recognized as being orthodox.

                      They would include
                      The Bible as inspired word/revelation of God
                      Trinity
                      Salvation by grace alone/faith alone
                      Second Coming
                      Jesus as ONLY way to have salvation
                      water baptism

                      And others...

                      Within those orthodox doctrines, there is differences of opinions, like second coming has A Mil/pre/post etc
                      Baptism has believers only, infant
                      There are calvinists/arminians etc

                      ALL of that is allowed, but CANNOT have positions such as NO second coming, Bible just partially true and accurate, jesus not God, MUST be batized etc, as those positions are outside what is seen as orthodox and correct doctrine!

                      And about reformed theology...


                      I also see s distinction on what they hold to, as believe with them on doctrines of grace, on theircalvinistic approach to salvation, but disagree with their Covenant theology other views, being Dispy myself in those other areas...

                      Hope this helps!
                      When you say "the church proper," whom are you speaking of?

                      When you say "orthodox," which one are you speaking of?
                      Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                      George Orwell

                      www.r2ucv.com



                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                        Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
                        Perhaps if there are doctrines of this manner, they would be clearly defined.
                        They are clearly defined.

                        Then, man gets into the picture and changes them for publication. Another man takes them and puts them in a book and preaches them.

                        Then we debate them endlessly using the texts that the man who changed them used.

                        If anyone brings us the clear definitions that are in existence, that is when the fight starts.

                        Then again, some things that are apparently unclear were probably never meant by God to be written as doctrine. Perhaps some of the ideas that we wrestle with were never meant to be cornerstones for our faith. Perhaps Calvinism was never meant by God to be a doctrine? Perhaps Arminianism was not either?

                        I'm sure that he idea of OSAS have never helped anyone become a better follower of Jesus. Those against OSAS have never caused anyone to fall away either. The argument has no purpose if we'd just follow scriptures.

                        Has anyone ever considered that churches teach doctrine so that people don't have to read the scriptures? Perhaps they exist in order to be "Cliff Notes" for the congregation. Maybe they were established in order to tell the world what "kind of people" are allowed to come to this church?

                        Paul had no New Testament, nor did Peter, John, James, etc, etc. When they spoke God's truth, it was called their "doctrine." Now, doctrine is different. We have the New Testament, but we use doctrine to replace it with man's interpretation.

                        I have a good friend - a man who helped me find Jesus - who has a "bible study" with his kids. He is not using a bible, though. He is using a book of doctrines. I suggested that he go back to using the bible.
                        Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                        George Orwell

                        www.r2ucv.com



                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                          A false doctrine is a doctrine which is contrary to that taught in the Word of God.

                          The Lord Jesus Christ said that a believer can know when a doctrine is false or when it is sound doctrine. (John 7:17)

                          John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

                          If one is open to the truth and willing to obey God, the Lord will give that person wisdom so that he will know sound doctrine from false doctrine.
                          And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:17)

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                          • #88
                            Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                            Originally posted by sheina maidle View Post
                            A false doctrine is a doctrine which is contrary to that taught in the Word of God.

                            The Lord Jesus Christ said that a believer can know when a doctrine is false or when it is sound doctrine. (John 7:17)


                            John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.


                            If one is open to the truth and willing to obey God, the Lord will give that person wisdom so that he will know sound doctrine from false doctrine.
                            IF ONE IS OPEN TO THE TRUTH AND WILLING TO OBEY GOD.........

                            Many are not open to the truth.
                            Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                            George Orwell

                            www.r2ucv.com



                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                              Originally posted by sheina maidle View Post
                              A false doctrine is a doctrine which is contrary to that taught in the Word of God. If one is open to the truth and willing to obey God, the Lord will give that person wisdom so that he will know sound doctrine from false doctrine.
                              And who determines that? That has been the crux of the thread. Man interprets what is and what is not the inspired Word of God. And we have many interpretations because man can't agree. The overarching message here is division that is caused over one's interpretation is certainly not God's will for us, but that is exactly what we all do with our desire to be right. Who is to say the wisdom given to you is any different than the wisdom given to me? That's where pride and arrogance bolster egotism and the Word of God is relegated to something we debate to prove our point or get others to see our view as the only right one.
                              I know what I know
                              I know what I don't know
                              I don't know what I don't know.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: What makes a doctrine false?

                                Originally posted by Nick View Post
                                And who determines that? That has been the crux of the thread. Man interprets what is and what is not the inspired Word of God. And we have many interpretations because man can't agree. The overarching message here is division that is caused over one's interpretation is certainly not God's will for us, but that is exactly what we all do with our desire to be right. Who is to say the wisdom given to you is any different than the wisdom given to me? That's where pride and arrogance bolster egotism and the Word of God is relegated to something we debate to prove our point or get others to see our view as the only right one.
                                The Holy Spirit determines what is sound doctrine. Aren't born again Christians indwelt with the Holy Spirit? What about Paul's admonition in 2 Timothy 2:15:

                                2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                                Do we all just sit in church pews on Sunday morning and never question the teaching of the preacher? Just because he is a preacher, does not make him "correct" in what he preaches. We need to be as those "Bereans" in Acts 17:11 and "search the Scriptures". God does give His children spiritual discernment....and that discernment comes as we "study and search the Scriptures".

                                Pride and egotism come when we don't submit to the leading of the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:9-14 describes God's method of revealing truth to man. The Bible is a spiritual book and cannot be understood by man's own intellect and knowledge.

                                1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
                                1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
                                1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
                                1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
                                1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
                                1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
                                And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:17)

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