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  • Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

    Would the Body of Christ view this boy today and determine he is unbalanced in the mind and that this is a reason why he is attempting what appears to be... suicide?


    Mark 9:14 And when He came to the disciples, He saw a great multitude around them, and scribes disputing with them. 15 Immediately, when they saw Him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. 16 And He asked the scribes, “What are you discussing with them?” 17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.”
    19 He answered him and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me.” 20 Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.
    21 So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?”
    And he said, “From childhood. 22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”
    23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe,[a] all things are possible to him who believes.”
    24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
    25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it: “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.
    28 And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?”
    29 So He said to them, “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.”[b]
    Slug1--out

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

  • #2
    Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

    Are you saying the guy was attempting to commit suicide?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

      I would have pegged it as severe epilepsy.

      Nevertheless, I get what you are meaning. In the US I'm not sure if we would get it or even that it happens (in that manner). But in places like India and South Africa on the other hand I might actually think it was possession if I saw this happening. I've seen and managed grand mal seizures (not all seizures are epilepsy), but nothing that looks like this. I don't know Slug. I wouldn't have thought he was mentally ill and attempting suicide repeatedly because of the uncontrollable physical manifestations.

      Sadly even Christians are influenced by todays movies and books that capitalize on the horror genre of possession and other occult themes. And the denomination that is always featured as being the only capable source of ridding people of possession is the Catholic church. I think, without realizing it or meaning to, a good many folks expect the movie manifestations and wouldn't recognize a real possession. It would be given a medical diagnosis and treated as such. On the other hand some folks would peg a real medical condition as possession....like epilepsy/seizure disorder or severe mental illness.

      Not saying it doesn't happen here in the US....I guess I'm saying that in general the intellectual and technological snobbery that prevails here would cloud most people's ability to recognize real possession.

      Peace, Berean11

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

        Originally posted by imreedemed View Post
        Are you saying the guy was attempting to commit suicide?
        How would you diagnose a person who is tossing themselves into fire or water in an effort to destroy themselves?

        We know in the scriptures it was the demon causing all that the boy was doing. But not many in the Body of Christ believe demons still do this stuff... so when a person is tossing themselves into harms way to destroy themselves... YES, it can be looked at as a person trying to kill themselves.
        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

          Originally posted by Berean11 View Post
          I would have pegged it as severe epilepsy.

          Nevertheless, I get what you are meaning. In the US I'm not sure if we would get it or even that it happens (in that manner). But in places like India and South Africa on the other hand I might actually think it was possession if I saw this happening. I've seen and managed grand mal seizures (not all seizures are epilepsy), but nothing that looks like this. I don't know Slug. I wouldn't have thought he was mentally ill and attempting suicide repeatedly because of the uncontrollable physical manifestations.

          Sadly even Christians are influenced by todays movies and books that capitalize on the horror genre of possession and other occult themes. And the denomination that is always featured as being the only capable source of ridding people of possession is the Catholic church. I think, without realizing it or meaning to, a good many folks expect the movie manifestations and wouldn't recognize a real possession. It would be given a medical diagnosis and treated as such. On the other hand some folks would peg a real medical condition as possession....like epilepsy/seizure disorder or severe mental illness.

          Not saying it doesn't happen here in the US....I guess I'm saying that in general the intellectual and technological snobbery that prevails here would cloud most people's ability to recognize real possession.

          Peace, Berean11
          Hooah !
          Slug1--out

          ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

            Or as one local pastor said to me a few years ago when I spoke to him about deliverance.
            "If the Apostles back in those days, knew what we know today about the mind sciences, they would have acted completely different, and they would have written the New testament very differently!"

            Human pride is such a filthy stench, and even worse when it comes from the mouth of a pastor. Sadly that man represents many of those who lead the body today.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

              Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
              Would the Body of Christ view this boy today and determine he is unbalanced in the mind and that this is a reason why he is attempting what appears to be... suicide?


              Mark 9:14 And when He came to the disciples, He saw a great multitude around them, and scribes disputing with them. 15 Immediately, when they saw Him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. 16 And He asked the scribes, “What are you discussing with them?” 17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.”
              19 He answered him and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me.” 20 Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.
              21 So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?”
              And he said, “From childhood. 22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”
              23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe,[a] all things are possible to him who believes.”
              24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
              25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it: “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.
              28 And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?”
              29 So He said to them, “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.”[b]
              No, I would not think he was unbalanced in his mind, or trying to commit suicide. My first thought would be epilepsy, and an epileptic seizure today.

              denise, ysic

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                Originally posted by Francis Drake View Post
                Or as one local pastor said to me a few years ago when I spoke to him about deliverance.
                "If the Apostles back in those days, knew what we know today about the mind sciences, they would have acted completely different, and they would have written the New testament very differently!"
                I don't get this logic? Why? Because the Holy Spirit was 100% involved in what they wrote at the time. If the above could possibly be true, and yes I realize this is only a hypothetical that this pastor was presenting, it would mean the apostles back then, what they wrote, it would have been inspired of men and not of God. Since there is no conceivable way in all the universe for the Holy Spirit to get something wrong, then it wouldn't have mattered in the least, even if "the Apostles back in those days, knew what we know today about the mind sciences", they still would have written things exactly like the Holy Spirit had wanted them to. Otherwise one couldn't say with 100% certainly that the NT was inspired of God, or that the apostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                  Originally posted by Oregongrown View Post
                  No, I would not think he was unbalanced in his mind, or trying to commit suicide. My first thought would be epilepsy, and an epileptic seizure today.

                  denise, ysic
                  If you read the verse, the spirit sends the boy into convulsions, falling to the ground, gnashes teeth, goes rigid, foams at the mouth, etc. If this was it, then I'd agree with you that Epilepsy would be the diagnosis. But the spirit also causes the boy to be thrown into fire and water to destroy the boy... this is not any epileptic convulsions.

                  If viewed, this would be a boy going to a fire or to water and falling (apparently) willfully into either, to die.

                  So would this be viewed as attempted suicide today along with the Epilepsy diagnosis?
                  Slug1--out

                  ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                    Originally posted by Francis Drake View Post
                    Or as one local pastor said to me a few years ago when I spoke to him about deliverance.
                    "If the Apostles back in those days, knew what we know today about the mind sciences, they would have acted completely different, and they would have written the New testament very differently!"

                    Human pride is such a filthy stench, and even worse when it comes from the mouth of a pastor. Sadly that man represents many of those who lead the body today.
                    Let me guess... only seminary educated? No experience out in the field, trenches, or... the world at all?
                    Slug1--out

                    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                      If you read the verse, the spirit sends the boy into convulsions, falling to the ground, gnashes teeth, goes rigid, foams at the mouth, etc. If this was it, then I'd agree with you that Epilepsy would be the diagnosis. But the spirit also causes the boy to be thrown into fire and water to destroy the boy... this is not any epileptic convulsions.

                      If viewed, this would be a boy going to a fire or to water and falling (apparently) willfully into either, to die.

                      So would this be viewed as attempted suicide today along with the Epilepsy diagnosis?
                      you asked what someone would think today, and if I saw that and heard some guy say that a spirit is doing it, I would still think it was epilepsy. And why not when the father is talking about episodes of this, they may be going down to fetch water, oh yeah, only women did that, so they were going swimming, the boy has another attack at the pool, and then they go camping, and he has another where he is trying to roast his weenie and falls into the fire. What??

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                        Originally posted by Oregongrown View Post
                        you asked what someone would think today, and if I saw that and heard some guy say that a spirit is doing it, I would still think it was epilepsy.
                        Really, why?
                        Slug1--out

                        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                          Would the Body of Christ view this boy today and determine he is unbalanced in the mind and that this is a reason why he is attempting what appears to be... suicide?


                          Mark 9:14 And when He came to the disciples, He saw a great multitude around them, and scribes disputing with them. 15 Immediately, when they saw Him, all the people were greatly amazed, and running to Him, greeted Him. 16 And He asked the scribes, “What are you discussing with them?” 17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.”
                          19 He answered him and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me.” 20 Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.
                          21 So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?”
                          And he said, “From childhood. 22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”
                          23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe,[a] all things are possible to him who believes.”
                          24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
                          25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it: “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.
                          28 And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?”
                          29 So He said to them, “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.”[b]
                          I think it would depend on what Church you asked this question. Some would say he just needed counseling. Others would blame his parents on wrong upbringing. Some would say it was his bad influences at school. Very few would get it right, except those who are led by the Holy Spirit. I will say this though, that there are instances of people who are really physically disabled and are not influenced by demonic spirits that some would say they were oppressed or possessed. Discerning of spirits would be needed in such situations so we are not trying to cast a spirit out of someone that is not there, which causes fear to manifest, and allows Satan to play his tricks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                            Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                            I think it would depend on what Church you asked this question. Some would say he just needed counseling. Others would blame his parents on wrong upbringing. Some would say it was his bad influences at school. Very few would get it right, except those who are led by the Holy Spirit. I will say this though, that there are instances of people who are really physically disabled and are not influenced by demonic spirits that some would say they were oppressed or possessed. Discerning of spirits would be needed in such situations so we are not trying to cast a spirit out of someone that is not there, which causes fear to manifest, and allows Satan to play his tricks.
                            Amen... since God put me in deliverance ministry, spirits are easier to deal with compared to dealing with unbelieving Christians.

                            I agree 100%. When there is no spirit discerned or revealed by God... then the person is counseled. When a spirit is discerned, then it is cast out. If healing is needed, that is prayed next and then the counseling and discipling commences. Sometimes healing is not needed as the moment the spirit is cast out, the physical problem ends suddenly or the body can begin to heal naturally because there is no spiritual hindrance stopping the bodies normal function(s).
                            Slug1--out

                            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Today's diagnosis by the Body of Christ

                              Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                              Really, why?
                              Because that is what would come into my mind. Maybe I'm just not spiritually-minded enough. If someone is hurt, and bleeding, I am not going to sit there and pray, I'm calling 911, then I'll pray, sorry if I'm not up to some standard I need to be, no I'm not sorry. God is bringing me along just fine.

                              Comment

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