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How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

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  • How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

    Jesus could not be an example to us for us to follow in His footsteps if He was walking around as God, in God’s obvious inherent power and authority. Nor could He simply disguise Himself as a man and be fitting as an example to us. Though He retained His identity as God
    and could take up His divine power and authority at any moment (“at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels ” Matthew 26:53), He took the form of an actual human, and as a man He showed us how we mere humans are supposed to operate in faith. The fact that He bothered
    to make Himself a human demonstrates that He really was leaving us an example, that we regenerate-types would walk in His footsteps. John 13:15; 1 Corinthians 11:1.

    As such, Jesus operated out of His good character, His human willpower, His knowledge of God and the Scriptures, His faith in what the Father was promising Him, and at times out of the power of the Spirit. But He did many things without the help of the Spirit, most notably, going to the Cross.

    What are your views on this?
    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
    that we may observe all the words of this law."
    Deuteronomy 29:29

  • #2
    Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

    Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
    Jesus could not be an example to us for us to follow in His footsteps if He was walking around as God, in God’s obvious inherent power and authority. Nor could He simply disguise Himself as a man and be fitting as an example to us. Though He retained His identity as God

    Jesus Christ forsook His identity as God in order to be permanently joined to His own creation. He abdicated so to speak. He gave up His position...




    and could take up His divine power and authority at any moment (“at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels ” Matthew 26:53),

    If He wished He could have returned to His former identity by cancelling ..or abdicating....what He had previously abdicated from. But then all the benefits to His creation would have been lost.

    He took the form of an actual human, and as a man He showed us how we mere humans are supposed to operate in faith. The fact that He bothered
    to make Himself a human demonstrates that He really was leaving us an example, that we regenerate-types would walk in His footsteps. John 13:15; 1 Corinthians 11:1.

    Exactly!


    As such, Jesus operated out of His good character, His human willpower, His knowledge of God and the Scriptures, His faith in what the Father was promising Him, and at times out of the power of the Spirit. But He did many things without the help of the Spirit, most notably, going to the Cross.
    Here you go too far. Jesus came precisely because men can't do anything without being spiritually strengthened through Christ. Jesus did not come to prove the flesh has the ability to overcome. He proved that through HIM we can overcome while still in this flesh. He brings to men the divine nature and the anointing to do as He did. But it is done in the Spirit....not according to the flesh.

    Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.



    sigpic
    מרן אתא

    Walk in the Light!
    התהלכו באור

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

      Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
      Jesus could not be an example to us for us to follow in His footsteps if He was walking around as God, in God’s obvious inherent power and authority. Nor could He simply disguise Himself as a man and be fitting as an example to us. Though He retained His identity as God
      and could take up His divine power and authority at any moment (“at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels ” Matthew 26:53), He took the form of an actual human, and as a man He showed us how we mere humans are supposed to operate in faith. The fact that He bothered
      to make Himself a human demonstrates that He really was leaving us an example, that we regenerate-types would walk in His footsteps. John 13:15; 1 Corinthians 11:1.

      As such, Jesus operated out of His good character, His human willpower, His knowledge of God and the Scriptures, His faith in what the Father was promising Him, and at times out of the power of the Spirit. But He did many things without the help of the Spirit, most notably, going to the Cross.

      What are your views on this?
      Yes, amen.
      The only miracle power that Jesus used was that which he got when the Holy Spirit was poured out on him. Like you have said, if Jesus walked in his God head power, then he could not be our example.

      He said, "greater than this shall you do."
      Sadly theologians have been working furiously ever since the death of the apostles to prove that we cannot do these things that Jesus promised.
      Be it unto us according to our faith, or lack of it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

        Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
        As such, Jesus operated out of His good character, His human willpower, His knowledge of God and the Scriptures, His faith in what the Father was promising Him, and at times out of the power of the Spirit. But He did many things without the help of the Spirit, most notably, going to the Cross.

        What are your views on this?
        Christ did many miracles while on earth. He did not do those without using his Heavenly powers, or without the strength of God. Going to the cross, was done because it was what God wanted him to do. He could have easily taken himself out of that position if it was HIS decision. He begged God to take that from him, because he did not want to go through with what he knew was coming. God gave him the strength to do what needed to be done.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

          Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
          Jesus could not be an example to us for us to follow in His footsteps if He was walking around as God, in God’s obvious inherent power and authority.

          What are your views on this?

          He grew up before HIM like a tender shoot, like a root out of dry ground.

          He had no beauty or majesty that attracted us to him; nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

          He was despised and rejected by mankind; a man of sorrows full of suffering and pain

          ... and we held him in LOW ESTEEM!

          I think he carried it out in his own wisdom, desiring to keep the heavenly secrets precious and revealing those secrets only to whom his Father is pleased with.

          We can endlessly argue on anything we call 'BIBLICAL' I still maintain that the KEYS to the REVELATIONARY KNOWLEDGE of the SECRETS of the KINGDOM of GOD is still in his hands and is very safe. Not one who has an iota of disbelief finds it.

          Who will not believe if God walks with them in HIS OWN HEAVENLY SPLENDOUR?!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

            Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
            Jesus could not be an example to us for us to follow in His footsteps if He was walking around as God, in God’s obvious inherent power and authority. Nor could He simply disguise Himself as a man and be fitting as an example to us. Though He retained His identity as God
            and could take up His divine power and authority at any moment (“at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels ” Matthew 26:53), He took the form of an actual human, and as a man He showed us how we mere humans are supposed to operate in faith. The fact that He bothered
            to make Himself a human demonstrates that He really was leaving us an example, that we regenerate-types would walk in His footsteps. John 13:15; 1 Corinthians 11:1.

            As such, Jesus operated out of His good character, His human willpower, His knowledge of God and the Scriptures, His faith in what the Father was promising Him, and at times out of the power of the Spirit. But He did many things without the help of the Spirit, most notably, going to the Cross.

            What are your views on this?
            Jesus never moved with out the Father guiding him by his Spirit. Jesus emptying himself by becoming a man is in the fact he never used his power to comfort himself in his mission or he could not have been a faithful High Priest. He did comfort others but not himself. To say Jesus sometimes did not walk in the power of the Spirit is not smart.

            Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
            Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
            Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

            Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
            Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

              Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? (Mt. 26:53)
              「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
              撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                Originally posted by episkopos View Post
                Jesus did not come to prove the flesh has the ability to overcome. He proved that through HIM we can overcome while still in this flesh. He brings to men the divine nature and the anointing to do as He did. But it is done in the Spirit....not according to the flesh.
                Episkopos, let's say by flesh you mean sarx, the sin nature. And by body, you mean soma, the physical body.

                Are you saying Jesus didn't come to prove the sarx has the ability to overcome, or the soma has the ability to overcome?
                “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
                that we may observe all the words of this law."
                Deuteronomy 29:29

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                  Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
                  Episkopos, let's say by flesh you mean sarx, the sin nature. And by body, you mean soma, the physical body.

                  Are you saying Jesus didn't come to prove the sarx has the ability to overcome, or the soma has the ability to overcome?
                  Who was the law written to? How many were made perfect through the law?

                  Neither sarx nor soma can overcome...otherwise the law would have sufficed. We can only overcome by abiding in Christ.

                  Most people think that no overcoming is possible even in Christ while we live in this flesh. This shows that few know anything at all about actually abiding in Christ. But the testimony remains...he who abides in Christ triumphs over all sin. The rest is details...

                  Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.



                  sigpic
                  מרן אתא

                  Walk in the Light!
                  התהלכו באור

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                    Originally posted by episkopos View Post
                    Who was the law written to? How many were made perfect through the law?

                    Neither sarx nor soma can overcome...otherwise the law would have sufficed. We can only overcome by abiding in Christ.

                    Most people think that no overcoming is possible even in Christ while we live in this flesh. This shows that few know anything at all about actually abiding in Christ. But the testimony remains...he who abides in Christ triumphs over all sin. The rest is details...
                    Although Christ’s first purpose in coming to earth and shedding His deific qualities and powers was to pay the sin penalty on the Cross for us, His second purpose in becoming one of us was for the specific purpose of showing us how to live this life in human obedience to the Father.

                    As Jesus hung on the Cross, the Spirit of the Father departed from Him. He cried out in Aramaic with a loud voice, “'ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?' which is
                    translated, ‘MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?’” Mark 15:34. This exclamation proves Jesus did not obey the Father on the Cross through the power of the Holy Spirit, or even through the fellowship of the Spirit. These departed from Him. Indeed, He did not raise Himself, but the Father had to raise Him, because Jesus really died a human death. Acts 5:30; Romans 6:4; 1 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 1:19-21; Galatians 1:1.

                    Nor did Jesus obey His Father to endure the Cross unto death by the power of His innate deity or the fact that by identity He was God. As Paul says, “although He existed in the form of God, "[He] emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.” Philippians 2:6-7. Why? In part to be the right kind of sacrifice for the sins of the world. Hebrews 2:9-18. But the overarching purpose of Jesus becoming a mortal human was so He could leave us an example, “that you should follow in his steps.” 1 Peter 2:21.

                    What kept Jesus hanging up there on the Cross was not love for the world, but obedient love for the Father, coupled with faith in His Father. As an eye witness, Peter, reports, “while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously.” 1 Peter 2:23. As the Hebrews writer put it, “He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.” Hebrews 5:7.

                    Jesus obeyed the Father by faith while He was on the Cross, not by His divine power, nor by the power of the Spirit.
                    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
                    that we may observe all the words of this law."
                    Deuteronomy 29:29

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                      Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
                      Although Christ’s first purpose in coming to earth and shedding His deific qualities and powers was to pay the sin penalty on the Cross for us, His second purpose in becoming one of us was for the specific purpose of showing us how to live this life in human obedience to the Father.

                      As Jesus hung on the Cross, the Spirit of the Father departed from Him. He cried out in Aramaic with a loud voice, “'ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?' which is
                      translated, ‘MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?’” Mark 15:34. This exclamation proves Jesus did not obey the Father on the Cross through the power of the Holy Spirit, or even through the fellowship of the Spirit. These departed from Him. Indeed, He did not raise Himself, but the Father had to raise Him, because Jesus really died a human death. Acts 5:30; Romans 6:4; 1 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 1:19-21; Galatians 1:1.

                      Nor did Jesus obey His Father to endure the Cross unto death by the power of His innate deity or the fact that by identity He was God. As Paul says, “although He existed in the form of God, "[He] emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.” Philippians 2:6-7. Why? In part to be the right kind of sacrifice for the sins of the world. Hebrews 2:9-18. But the overarching purpose of Jesus becoming a mortal human was so He could leave us an example, “that you should follow in his steps.” 1 Peter 2:21.

                      What kept Jesus hanging up there on the Cross was not love for the world, but obedient love for the Father, coupled with faith in His Father. As an eye witness, Peter, reports, “while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously.” 1 Peter 2:23. As the Hebrews writer put it, “He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.” Hebrews 5:7

                      Jesus obeyed the Father by faith while He was on the Cross, not by His divine power, nor by the power of the Spirit.
                      Jesus offered himself through the eternal Spirit on the cross. His ability to overcome the pain and shame of being crucified was by the fact he kept his eyes on the joy that was set before him.
                      His joy was us, his Church that were living in him. He did it for us. In excatly the same way we overcome by keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus who is our joy.


                      Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

                      Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
                      Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                        Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                        Jesus offered himself through the eternal Spirit on the cross. His ability to overcome the pain and shame of being crucified was by the fact he kept his eyes on the joy that was set before him.
                        His joy was us, his Church that were living in him. He did it for us. In excatly the same way we overcome by keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus who is our joy.


                        Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

                        Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
                        Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
                        Excellent citations, Curtis. I wonder what that means, though, as to "through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish". The emphasis there seems to be on being able to be without sin due to the eternal Spirit. You agree?
                        “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
                        that we may observe all the words of this law."
                        Deuteronomy 29:29

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                          Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                          His ability to overcome the pain and shame of being crucified was by the fact he kept his eyes on the joy that was set before him.
                          His joy was us, his Church that were living in him. He did it for us. In excatly the same way we overcome by keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus who is our joy...

                          Heb 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
                          Through the desire and expectation of what God was Promising Him, Jesus was hoping in the Father, and He found His exultation, His joy, His gladness of Heart in praising His Father for it, even as He anticipated His suffering. He may have praised Him that way even as He endured it. It was this kind of joy and peace in reliance on the Promise of His Father, in the face of the world going to Hell in a hand basket, that demonstrated the greatest faith of Jesus. That was Jesus Walking by Faith in the Promises of God.
                          “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
                          that we may observe all the words of this law."
                          Deuteronomy 29:29

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                            Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                            His joy was us, his Church that were living in him. He did it for us.
                            Do you have Scripture, Curtis, that says Jesus went to the Cross for us, His church, or out of His love for us?

                            I tentatively believe His joy in the face of His trial and testing was what the Father promised Him, i.e., the Kingdom, not His love for people.
                            “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
                            that we may observe all the words of this law."
                            Deuteronomy 29:29

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How Much of Jesus' Divine Power Did He Shed in Coming as a Man?

                              Originally posted by Eyelog View Post
                              Do you have Scripture, Curtis, that says Jesus went to the Cross for us, His church, or out of His love for us?

                              I tentatively believe His joy in the face of His trial and testing was what the Father promised Him, i.e., the Kingdom, not His love for people.
                              It was his desire to do the Fathers will for sure, I don't think he was jumping up and down because of it though. The thing he wanted was his Church, and it was residing on the inside of him. That was his real joy that caused him to endure the cross. Jesus did not look at what was happening to him, but what would be the consequence of his death in bringing us unto the Father.

                              Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
                              Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities. (ESV)

                              Comment

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