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  • SPIRITUAL WEALTH

    "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" (Rev 3:17)

    From my understanding of this verse; to be materially wealthy, means spiritual poverty.

    Corroborating this perspective further is: "Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away." (James 1:9-10)

    From my understanding of this verse, our brethren who have few material possessions are they who are wealthy in spirit, while our materially rich brethren are the poor in spirit.






  • #2
    Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

    Originally posted by luigi View Post
    "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" (Rev 3:17)

    From my understanding of this verse; to be materially wealthy, means spiritual poverty.

    Corroborating this perspective further is: "Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away." (James 1:9-10)

    From my understanding of this verse, our brethren who have few material possessions are they who are wealthy in spirit, while our materially rich brethren are the poor in spirit.





    I do not understand the verse in the same way.

    I believe it has to do with issues of the heart, showing contrast between two states:
    Relying on material goods that perish/pass away V.S. relying on God who does not.

    Having material possessions does not make a person who already relies on God wretched, poor, blind or naked.

    But having reliance upon material possessions rather than on God, or believing that having great material possessions “makes a person valuable” is the blind spot because they are unable to see that God is the giver of everything good, including ones own life, abilities/talents.

    Believing in God and having material blessing that is directly from Him (either through ones own vocation or heritage) is not a sin. The sin is having reliance upon them rather than God who gives.

    Not everyone who is poor materially is rich in faith.
    Many are lost, the materially poor and the materially rich.
    I just think it is important distinction to make that God made both, and that both must come to the point in their life where they see their need for God. (That they are spiritually poor without Him)
    Peace to you!

    It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

    1 Corinthians 1:30

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

      Good post Scooby!

      The heart of the matter is self-sufficiency, the point is missed if the focus remains on a formula of wealthy=spiritual poverty and poor=rich in spirit. When God blesses with wealth (and He does), He expects them to be good stewards and help those in need
      (for those who have been given much, much is required).

      If all Christians, everywhere, are in poverty, not being able to feed the poor or clothe them as James pointed out, God would not have told us to go and take care of those in need.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

        Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
        I do not understand the verse in the same way.

        I believe it has to do with issues of the heart, showing contrast between two states:
        Relying on material goods that perish/pass away V.S. relying on God who does not.
        It's definitely issues of the heart: "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Matt 6:21 & Lk 12:34)

        And where your treasure and heart are can only be towards one master, Mammon or God (Matt 6:24).

        So to me this definitely means; brethren who are materially rich are spiritually poor; and brethren who are materially poor are spiritually rich.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

          Originally posted by Jake View Post
          Good post Scooby!

          The heart of the matter is self-sufficiency, the point is missed if the focus remains on a formula of wealthy=spiritual poverty and poor=rich in spirit. When God blesses with wealth (and He does), He expects them to be good stewards and help those in need
          (for those who have been given much, much is required).

          If all Christians, everywhere, are in poverty, not being able to feed the poor or clothe them as James pointed out, God would not have told us to go and take care of those in need.
          When Jesus was asked whether taxes should be paid, He asked them to show Him a coin. This indicates Jesus had no purse and did not depend on Mammon.
          When Jesus was expected to pay tax, He told Peter to go fishing, and the coin he found to pay the tax for both Himself and Peter; thereby indicating no purse for either.
          When Peter was asked for alms (Acts 3:6), he responded that he had neither silver nor gold, thereby indicating he had no purse, and thereby depended on God and not on Mammon.

          This examples represent a wealth of faith in God for providing their needs, and not in Mammon.
          By comparison, we today have a wealth of faith in Mammon for providing our daily needs, and not in God.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

            John 12:4-6
            But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.”
            He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

            Judas always held the bag of money that from it specific needs were met for Jesus ministry.
            That was his job, a treasurer so to speak. Jesus may have not carried money in His pocket, but money was carried to meet the needs of the ministry.

            John 13:27-30
            So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.
            Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor.
            As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.
            Peace to you!

            It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

            1 Corinthians 1:30

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

              Originally posted by luigi View Post
              It's definitely issues of the heart: "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Matt 6:21 & Lk 12:34)

              And where your treasure and heart are can only be towards one master, Mammon or God (Matt 6:24).

              So to me this definitely means; brethren who are materially rich are spiritually poor; and brethren who are materially poor are spiritually rich.

              Just clarifying luigi:

              You believe that Christians that are materially rich are spiritually poor?

              Because it is the flip side of being materially poor and spiritually rich. I happen to believe that those who are materially poor and rely on God ARE spiritually rich. But I do not believe those who are materially rich and still rely on God have a deficit spiritually.

              It is the love of money that is a problem. Money itself is not evil. Possessions are not evil. The LOVE of them is rooted in evil.

              Jesus could have said Himself: Do not use that expensive oil to anoint me. But He did not.

              In other words: The expensive oil was not evil. This anointing of Jesus glorified Him, and it's symbolism I might be able to discuss at length bringing to light many connections to scripture regarding it.
              Peace to you!

              It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

              1 Corinthians 1:30

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                Originally posted by luigi View Post
                When Jesus was asked whether taxes should be paid, He asked them to show Him a coin. This indicates Jesus had no purse and did not depend on Mammon.
                When Jesus was expected to pay tax, He told Peter to go fishing, and the coin he found to pay the tax for both Himself and Peter; thereby indicating no purse for either.
                When Peter was asked for alms (Acts 3:6), he responded that he had neither silver nor gold, thereby indicating he had no purse, and thereby depended on God and not on Mammon.

                This examples represent a wealth of faith in God for providing their needs, and not in Mammon.
                By comparison, we today have a wealth of faith in Mammon for providing our daily needs, and not in God.
                More often than not, God sends other people (who have something to offer) to those people who are in need - that's what makes a community. If someone has been blessed by God with mammon, then that person can provide another with something they lack - example - food, shelter, clothing, vehicles, etc. The person giving is spiritually rich because of the blessings he receives from God for giving and the person receiving is also blessed because of what has been given.

                Again, you can not equate spiritually poor with those who are wealthy with money and those without money can not always be seen as spiritually rich, it's not that simple and it doesn't work like that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                  Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
                  John 12:4-6
                  But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.”
                  He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

                  Judas always held the bag of money that from it specific needs were met for Jesus ministry.
                  That was his job, a treasurer so to speak. Jesus may have not carried money in His pocket, but money was carried to meet the needs of the ministry.

                  John 13:27-30
                  So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.
                  Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor.
                  As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.
                  And yet when someone said to Jesus that he would always follow him anywhere He would go, Jesus responded: "...foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of man hath no where to lay His head." (Lk 9:57-58)
                  So while Judas Iscariot was the treasurer, held the money bag, and was a thief; he also apparently was no where to be found to rent a room, thereby indicating Jesus and his true cohorts having no money on their persons, with their dependence on God and not Mammon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                    Originally posted by Jake View Post
                    More often than not, God sends other people (who have something to offer) to those people who are in need - that's what makes a community. If someone has been blessed by God with mammon, then that person can provide another with something they lack - example - food, shelter, clothing, vehicles, etc. The person giving is spiritually rich because of the blessings he receives from God for giving and the person receiving is also blessed because of what has been given.

                    Again, you can not equate spiritually poor with those who are wealthy with money and those without money can not always be seen as spiritually rich, it's not that simple and it doesn't work like that.
                    I suspect that everyone on this forum knows that God sends people who have mammon, to provide for others who do not have sufficient food, clothing, and other necessities.
                    I do not, however, agree with your premise that the materially rich individual that gives of his abundance, is also spiritually rich.
                    That would contradict the scriptures I previously posted, and would therefore be denying Gods Word.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                      Originally posted by luigi View Post
                      And yet when someone said to Jesus that he would always follow him anywhere He would go, Jesus responded: "...foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of man hath no where to lay His head." (Lk 9:57-58)
                      So while Judas Iscariot was the treasurer, held the money bag, and was a thief; he also apparently was no where to be found to rent a room, thereby indicating Jesus and his true cohorts having no money on their persons, with their dependence on God and not Mammon.
                      Okay, Jesus did not own a home. The disciples probably did not either.

                      The question is this: Do you believe we should all then be homeless and relying on the hospitality of others (as Jesus and disciples did) being that they were welcomed into these homes, that those who had these homes came to believe but did not go sell their homes to join them?

                      Does everyone have the same ministry as Jesus did?

                      I think not.
                      God provided through the hospitality of others and those who provided were not wrong for having something to provide.

                      Of course, if you feel as though God does not accept you where you are, but only will when you are homeless with no possessions, I cannot do anything about that. Everything belongs to God, Our children, mothers, fathers and possessions. Surrendering them to Him (as did those who provided in Jesus ministry) means to me that He may do with them as He wills for His Glory.

                      Judas was carrying money for the ministry. It does not matter that he did not rent them a room. That was not God's will. It was God's will that Jesus was anointed by Mary.
                      Peace to you!

                      It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

                      1 Corinthians 1:30

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                        Everyone is spiritually poor, wretched and naked without Jesus. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
                        I is the realization of this, from the richest man to the most devout religious self sacrificing man that sinners need what Jesus provided by His love, and that He is worthy of all glory because of it.
                        Peace to you!

                        It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

                        1 Corinthians 1:30

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                          Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
                          Okay, Jesus did not own a home. The disciples probably did not either.

                          The question is this: Do you believe we should all then be homeless and relying on the hospitality of others (as Jesus and disciples did) being that they were welcomed into these homes, that those who had these homes came to believe but did not go sell their homes to join them?

                          Does everyone have the same ministry as Jesus did?

                          I think not.
                          God provided through the hospitality of others and those who provided were not wrong for having something to provide.
                          To becoming one of the Lords disciples, Jesus said make sure you have enough before you go out to build a tower, or before you go to war with someone; in context to where if you did not hate your life and everything related to it, you could then not be His disciple; because when you were to see yourself homeless and hungry, you would then turn back to your old life.
                          So to answer whether we should all go and be homeless and rely on the hospitality of others (which would not rely on the hospitably of others, but would represent having a wealth of faith in God providing our needs), the answer is obviously no, seeing very few in my opinion have sufficient wealth/faith in God to do so.

                          So you are correct that not everyone has the same ministry as Jesus or His disciples, who were rich in Spirit.
                          And also right in that God does provide for His elect through individuals He/Love manipulates into so doing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                            Originally posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
                            Everyone is spiritually poor, wretched and naked without Jesus. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
                            I is the realization of this, from the richest man to the most devout religious self sacrificing man that sinners need what Jesus provided by His love, and that He is worthy of all glory because of it.
                            Yes, everyone without Love is spiritually poor, wretched and naked, which include the wealthy materialistically enamored brethren.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: SPIRITUAL WEALTH

                              Originally posted by luigi View Post
                              I suspect that everyone on this forum knows that God sends people who have mammon, to provide for others who do not have sufficient food, clothing, and other necessities.
                              I do not, however, agree with your premise that the materially rich individual that gives of his abundance, is also spiritually rich.
                              That would contradict the scriptures I previously posted, and would therefore be denying Gods Word.
                              It doesn't appear that you understand this concept though - no disrespect intended - when believers, in local communities, have nothing to share with one another because they have no abundance to do so, then we're all looking for someone to give us something and not the other way around.

                              I can see someone using your point of view as a way to get out of providing for his/her family or themselves for that matter. What does the Bible say about such people?

                              2 Thess 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat."

                              How much is an abundance? Should we as a Church start creating laws for one another to set an amount of money we can or can not make in a given time period? Should we create laws whereby Christians can have only so much money in the bank at one time?

                              I can find more scripture that supports the prosperity gospel than this one you're trying to show.

                              Comment

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