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  • Discussion If Angels Can Fall?

    If Angels that have been in the presence of God in Heaven can be condemned to Hell because of sin, what about us that have known the way of righteousness and have gone astray?

    2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    2 Pet 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

    2 Pet 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

    2 Pet 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    2 Pet 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

    Lk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
    Lk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    Lk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    If angels can fall and be condemned, what about us?

    God bless!

    Firstfruits

  • #2
    This is one amazing post, had me think a lot. Thank you for sharing!
    Saved by Grace!

    Praying for Mieke and Charles
    Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.


    My testimony
    http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=149096

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
      If Angels that have been in the presence of God in Heaven can be condemned to Hell because of sin, what about us that have known the way of righteousness and have gone astray?

      2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

      2 Pet 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

      2 Pet 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

      2 Pet 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
      2 Pet 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

      Lk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
      Lk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
      Lk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

      If angels can fall and be condemned, what about us?

      God bless!

      Firstfruits
      Greetings Firstfruits,

      You have to remember when "messengers" is translated "angels" the context will determine whether the messenger is a heavenly being or a human being. God has both human and heavenly messengers. In the context of 2Peter 2, was it spirit messengers (angels) or human messengers "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness"?

      This passage is NOT speaking of fallen angels. It is speaking of human beings in the days of Noah, who were to be the messengers of God, but instead they chose to intermingle the godly line (messengers of God) with the ungodly line (daughters of man), and therefore they are held in darkness until the Judgement.

      Many Blessings,
      RW

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RogerW View Post
        Greetings Firstfruits,

        You have to remember when "messengers" is translated "angels" the context will determine whether the messenger is a heavenly being or a human being. God has both human and heavenly messengers. In the context of 2Peter 2, was it spirit messengers (angels) or human messengers "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness"?

        This passage is NOT speaking of fallen angels. It is speaking of human beings in the days of Noah, who were to be the messengers of God, but instead they chose to intermingle the godly line (messengers of God) with the ungodly line (daughters of man), and therefore they are held in darkness until the Judgement.

        Many Blessings,
        RW
        Are you saying that the following are not the same?

        Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

        2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

        Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

        God bless you!

        Firstfruits

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Linda Steyn View Post
          This is one amazing post, had me think a lot. Thank you for sharing!
          Thank you Steyn,

          God bless you!

          Firstfruits

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RogerW View Post
            Greetings Firstfruits,

            You have to remember when "messengers" is translated "angels" the context will determine whether the messenger is a heavenly being or a human being. God has both human and heavenly messengers. In the context of 2Peter 2, was it spirit messengers (angels) or human messengers "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness"?

            This passage is NOT speaking of fallen angels. It is speaking of human beings in the days of Noah, who were to be the messengers of God, but instead they chose to intermingle the godly line (messengers of God) with the ungodly line (daughters of man), and therefore they are held in darkness until the Judgement.

            Many Blessings,
            RW
            The passage speaks of more than just the days of Noah.

            2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

            2 Pet 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

            2 Pet 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

            This speaks of Gods punishment on all those that sin, including the devil and his Angels.

            God bless you!

            Firstfruits

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
              Are you saying that the following are not the same?

              Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
              The devil also has messengers. Everlasting fire is prepared for the devil and all of his messengers.

              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
              2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
              In context this passage is referring back to the days of Noah when the sons of God (God's messengers, the line of Seth) did not keep themselves pure, but intermarried with the daughters of men (ungodly line of Cain), thereby causing the Godly line to be defiled. These messengers, when they began to call upon the name of the Lord (birth of Seth), knew they were not to enter into marriage with the ungodly line of Cain. Since they did not keep the Godly line pure they defiled themselves, and are therefore waiting in the grave (the deepest abyss of hell) in darkness unto the Day of Judgment.

              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
              Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

              God bless you!

              Firstfruits
              Jude is referring to the same time period, and the same reason they have beeen reserved in darkness unto the Day of Judgment.

              Many Blessings,
              RW

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                The passage speaks of more than just the days of Noah.

                2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

                2 Pet 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

                2 Pet 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

                This speaks of Gods punishment on all those that sin, including the devil and his Angels.

                God bless you!

                Firstfruits
                Yes, it does, and it is telling us that just as those in the days of Noah are held in darkness unto the Judgment, so too, the ungodly cities of Sodom and Gomorrha, also those false prophets, and false teachers, who bring damnable heresies in the last days. These will all be reserved for the Day of Judgment.

                Many Blessings,
                RW

                Comment


                • #9
                  If angels fell... what about us? Hmmm....

                  'Seems like God has things in control.
                  Just remain on the path and cling to Him.
                  He is able.
                  Trust and persist.

                  When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
                  And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
                  Matthew 19:25,26

                  For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
                  Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
                  to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
                  For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
                  Hebrews 2:16-18

                  The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
                  but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
                  Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him,
                  since He always lives to make intercession for them.
                  Hebrews 7:23-25

                  Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
                  to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
                  Jude 1:24,25

                  "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
                  and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
                  "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
                  "I and the Father are one."
                  John 10:27-30

                  In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should,
                  but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
                  and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is,
                  because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
                  And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God,
                  to those who are called according to His purpose.
                  For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son,
                  so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
                  and these whom He predestined, He also called;
                  and these whom He called, He also justified;
                  and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
                  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
                  He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all,
                  how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
                  Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;
                  who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died,
                  yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
                  Who will separate us from the love of Christ?
                  Romans 8:26-35

                  Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
                  Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
                  So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
                  Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
                  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
                  Romans 7:24 - 8:2

                  "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace,
                  which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
                  Acts 20:32

                  For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present,
                  nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing,
                  will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
                  Romans 8:38,39

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RogerW View Post
                    The devil also has messengers. Everlasting fire is prepared for the devil and all of his messengers.



                    In context this passage is referring back to the days of Noah when the sons of God (God's messengers, the line of Seth) did not keep themselves pure, but intermarried with the daughters of men (ungodly line of Cain), thereby causing the Godly line to be defiled. These messengers, when they began to call upon the name of the Lord (birth of Seth), knew they were not to enter into marriage with the ungodly line of Cain. Since they did not keep the Godly line pure they defiled themselves, and are therefore waiting in the grave (the deepest abyss of hell) in darkness unto the Day of Judgment.



                    Jude is referring to the same time period, and the same reason they have beeen reserved in darkness unto the Day of Judgment.

                    Many Blessings,
                    RW
                    With regards to the following scripture, can you explain what the following represent?

                    The Dragon.

                    The third part of the stars of Heaven.

                    Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

                    Is this not the Devil being cast out of heaven?
                    Did he not draw angels with him in rebelion which were castout with him?

                    Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
                    Is 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
                    Is 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
                    Is 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

                    If these scripture are not regarding the Devil and the fallen angels then where in scripture is the mention of the devil and the fallen angel that were cast out of heaven?

                    Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

                    2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

                    Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

                    Firstfruits

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Richard H View Post
                      If angels fell... what about us? Hmmm....

                      'Seems like God has things in control.
                      Just remain on the path and cling to Him.
                      He is able.
                      Trust and persist.

                      When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"
                      And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
                      Matthew 19:25,26

                      For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
                      Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
                      to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
                      For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
                      Hebrews 2:16-18

                      The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
                      but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
                      Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him,
                      since He always lives to make intercession for them.
                      Hebrews 7:23-25

                      Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
                      to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
                      Jude 1:24,25

                      "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
                      and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
                      "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
                      "I and the Father are one."
                      John 10:27-30

                      In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should,
                      but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
                      and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is,
                      because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
                      And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God,
                      to those who are called according to His purpose.
                      For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son,
                      so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
                      and these whom He predestined, He also called;
                      and these whom He called, He also justified;
                      and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
                      What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
                      He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all,
                      how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
                      Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;
                      who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died,
                      yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
                      Who will separate us from the love of Christ?
                      Romans 8:26-35

                      Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
                      Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
                      So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
                      Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
                      For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
                      Romans 7:24 - 8:2

                      "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace,
                      which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
                      Acts 20:32

                      For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present,
                      nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing,
                      will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
                      Romans 8:38,39
                      Where or what has happened to the fallen angels that were cast out of Heaven with Satan?

                      Firstfruits

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                        Where or what has happened to the fallen angels that were cast out of Heaven with Satan?

                        Firstfruits


                        Well, Let's see...

                        'Last I heard, they were being kept in the really hot part of hell - awaiting the judgement throne of God.

                        For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
                        2Peter 2:4 KJV

                        NASB
                        For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
                        ...

                        then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
                        and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,
                        whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord.
                        2Peter 2:9-11 NASB

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                          If Angels that have been in the presence of God in Heaven can be condemned to Hell because of sin, what about us that have known the way of righteousness and have gone astray?

                          2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

                          2 Pet 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

                          2 Pet 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

                          2 Pet 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
                          2 Pet 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

                          Lk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
                          Lk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
                          Lk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

                          If angels can fall and be condemned, what about us?

                          God bless!

                          Firstfruits
                          Angels were not offered salvation. We were. Moot point. God Bless.
                          Psalm 118:8 - "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Roger---In context this passage is referring back to the days of Noah when the sons of God (God's messengers, the line of Seth) did not keep themselves pure, but intermarried with the daughters of men (ungodly line of Cain), thereby causing the Godly line to be defiled. These messengers, when they began to call upon the name of the Lord (birth of Seth), knew they were not to enter into marriage with the ungodly line of Cain. Since they did not keep the Godly line pure they defiled themselves, and are therefore waiting in the grave (the deepest abyss of hell) in darkness unto the Day of Judgment.

                            Roger,

                            Do you have the first bit of Scripture to support this?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                              With regards to the following scripture, can you explain what the following represent?

                              The Dragon.

                              The third part of the stars of Heaven.

                              Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

                              Is this not the Devil being cast out of heaven?
                              Did he not draw angels with him in rebelion which were castout with him?
                              Satan's tail is used as a synonym for false prophets who come to hurt and deceive the Children of God. The tail is the deception from the head. It is what follows the authority of the head and does it's bidding.

                              Re 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels [messengers] of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

                              In this symbolism the tail is those under the authority of satan who do his bidding. i.e., they follow the authority of the head. For example, look at Revelation chapter 9 where it speaks about the bottomless pit being opened and the plague of locusts that had "tails" like scorpions coming forth:


                              Revelation 9:10 "And had TAILS like unto SCORPIONS, and there were stings in their tails: and their POWER was to hurt men five months."

                              This is symbolic language to indicate that they are the emissaries of Satan. The tail to "signify" they are under the Authority of the serpent or scorpion. Satan is symbolized in scripture as the scorpion and the Serpent, and likewise those who are of satan. Again, note later on in that same chapter of Revelation we read of the horsemen who had been bound, and were loosed from Euphrates:
                              Revelation 9:19 "for their POWER is in their mouth, and in their TAILS: for their TAILS were like unto SERPENTS, and had heads, and with them they do hurt."

                              Again, we see the symbolism of power of the tail to hurt people, this time, not as of a scorpion, but as a serpent. You see they "both" represent the people who come under the power and authority of Satan. Both the Scorpion, and the Serpent are symbolic of Satan. The servants of Satan come with his power to hurt, and that's the symbolism of the tail of the Dragon casting down the stars of the Kingdom of heaven. Satan works out his power to Hurt men through his false prophets under his authority as the head. They are the tail.


                              In Revelation 12 the illustration is that Satan was attacking and bringing down the Congregation of Israel with great violence and warfare, casting Israel's Messengers down. This is what is recorded in:

                              Matthew 11:12 "and from the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force".
                              This is the violence in view. This is the Woman in the Kingdom of Heaven having her stars cast down to the earth. Satan is the accuser of the Brethren. That's what Isaiah 40:1 means when speaking of the Coming of Jesus, saying, "Comfort ye Jerusalem, that her warfare is accomplished, the Voice of him that crieth in the Wilderness!" In other words, when John came, he heralded the news that the warfare, the violence in the Kingdom would be completed, because Christ would bring Peace to Jerusalem. The Violence that the Kingdom suffered because of Satan came to an end at the birth of Christ.

                              http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/es...ogy/rev12.html

                              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                              Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
                              Is 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
                              Is 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
                              Is 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

                              If these scripture are not regarding the Devil and the fallen angels then where in scripture is the mention of the devil and the fallen angel that were cast out of heaven?
                              Rev 12:7 "and there was war in heaven: Michael and His angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels."


                              Michael is a signification for Christ. This word is of Hebrew origin and is [miykael], meaning "whom or he, is surely God". It's taken from three root words, [miy] meaning whom or he, [kiy] meaning surely or assuredly, and ['el], meaning God. [miykael] or Michael is Christ who assuredly is God. He is called the Arch (Chief or Head) Messenger because He is the Messenger of the Covenant (Malachi 3:1) who was prophesied to come.

                              Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts".

                              He is not an Angel, but a Messenger. The words translated angel and messenger are the exact same words. Christ and His messengers fought, and the Devil and His messengers fought, and Satan and his messengers were defeated by the cross of Christ. Christ strengthened the Covenant by His death (Heb. 9:17).

                              So often many lose sight of the fact that Revelation is using symbolic language all throughout this chapter. Sun, Moon, Stars, and they being in heaven are all Symbolic of something else, not the Literal heaven, a woman, the sun, or stars. That is quite obvious! The warfare was a Spiritual warfare. When Isaiah says Jerusalem's warfare was accomplished or finished, it wasn't talking about literal war with clubs, swords or literal fighting. It is a warfare infinitely more important. We see this pictured gloriously as Jesus sends the 70 out 2 by 2 with the gospel, and they returned saying Satan couldn't harm them, (ye shall take up serpents) and even the spirits were subject to them. Christ the arch or chief Messenger (not angel) gave his messengers this Power, a prelude to what power they would have because of the cross. Their battle gear was the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. That was what they fought with. And their victory was assured only in Christ! Listen and hear what Jesus tells His messengers as He sends them out two by two.

                              Luke 10:16-18 "He that heareth you heareth Me; and he that despiseth you despiseth Me; and he that despiseth Me despiseth Him that sent Me.

                              Jesus is illustrating that if they fight you, they fight Him, and if they fight Him, they fight against God. i.e., he is telling them they are messengers representing God and any enmity against them is then enmity against God! they are God's army. It Continues in verse 17:
                              • And the 70 returned again with joy, saying, LORD, even the DEVILS are SUBJECT unto us through THY name.

                              Satan had no power to stand against them by the faith that would be secured by the Cross of Christ. It was by the Power of Christ that the devils were subject to the Messengers of the lord. Christ, the Chief Messenger Michael who assuredly is God, was the reason that they could not stand against these messengers. The 70 Christ sent out rejoiced at this, and note "carefully" in the next verse, Christ's response to their Joy of their Victory over devils:
                              • And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven."

                              Satan hadn't literally fallen out of the sky (heaven) Christ is signifying that he has been prevented from harming anyone in the Kingdom (Heaven). And that falling is exactly what the next verses of Revelation chapter 12 is referring to. That Satan now had no power over the army of God, and the kingdom of Heaven would go forth to the world because of it. Satan spiritually is cast out of it, and the bondage wherewith he held men would be broken by the Cross. the accuser would not be able to cast down the stars to the earth. This miracle of the 70 was a picture of what the finished work of Christ would do for the Church. It would destroy (bring Him down/Idle) Satan (Hebrews 2:14) so that the saints could be free from his bondage whereby he held death over them. Christ could now build His Church and the gates of Hell could not prevail over it as Satan is defeated, cast out, and bound that the Lord could free his prisoners or captives and build His Church. The same picture of Joy as the Woman being delivered of the man Child which Jesus talked about. It is a victory by the blood of the lamb as the Kingdom suffered violence, but Christ would bring it peace and Safety.

                              Hebrews 2:14 "..that through death, He might destroy him that hath the power of death, that is the devil, and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage".
                              That Greek word "destroy" there is [katargeo] and means to make idle or inactive down. To literally make vanish or void. We know Satan was not destroyed in the classic sense of the word as he still goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1st Peter 5:8), but the Kingdom of God is come and has been delivered from bondage to Him and secured from harm by that old serpent because of the Blood of the cross. In the symbolic sense of Revelation, Satan was cast out of heaven (the kingdom) making it secure. The Kingdom which suffered violence is delivered. Satan was the accuser of the brethren by sin, because he held them in bondage with the fear of death hanging over them. But Christ delivered us from that bondage by paying the wages of sin (death) and thus cast the accuser out. By the power of Christ is he conquered and as lightning fell from heaven. When Jesus told the 70 that He saw Satan as lightning (God's judgment) fall from heaven, this is what he was talking about. He saw the Victory of the cross that would destroy satan, cast him out of the Kingdom and thus keep the messengers of He who assuredly is God from harm. The scorpions and serpents were signifying Satan and all power of this enemy.

                              http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/es...ogy/rev12.html

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