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  • Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

    Theology really sounds interesting to study BUT.

    Do we really need it to believe the Bible?




    Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

    To have our minds as free and innocent as a little child. (unwise)




    1 Corin 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
    30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
    31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.



    Our teacher shall speak.

    1 Corin 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



    For what is in this book and can it be changed?

    Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
    25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
    26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
    27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.



    Important words.

    Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
    5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
    6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.



    Some say the next scripture only applies to that book. Thoughts?

    Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

    I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

    Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
    Matt 25:46

    For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
    and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    1 Tim 6:10

  • #2
    Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

    Each person chooses what he or she believes.

    For some, they need only a trusted teacher.

    For others, they need a proven example before they will accept something as true.

    For still others, they need to evaluate the written words compared to history and apologetics before they will accept validity.

    However, it does not matter how one comes to believe. It matters that they believe.

    Theology - depending on what way you think it is used - is one method and can refer to different ways of reaching a conclusion. For me, it took apologetics to tell me that I can trust what the Bible said. Then, it took time and the Bible to convince me of what I needed to know.

    For others, it was much easier. The issue is whether or not we are now His.
    Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
    George Orwell

    www.r2ucv.com



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

      No, the Bible is sufficient.

      All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

      Philosophical arguments are unnecessary - what God says, goes. If people have disagreements on something, they should be referring to Scripture rather than theologians.
      「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
      撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

        Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
        No, the Bible is sufficient.

        All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

        Philosophical arguments are unnecessary - what God says, goes. If people have disagreements on something, they should be referring to Scripture rather than theologians.
        Depending on how we apply the bible, that is true.

        If we apply the Bible, depending on whether or not we actually understand it, we can learn how we are to follow Jesus. However, millions of people over the centuries have lived in the way that they thought the Bible taught them - and committed terrible crimes in the process.

        Without sitting in community and sharing Christ with each other, we lose much of what Jesus wants us to do. The Bible is a book - a book put together a few hundred years after Jesus went to be with His Father. It has been changed, organized, reorganized, and interpreted in several ways.

        The bible alone is not enough. We need each other as well. When we get together, we discuss and share. What do we call this process of discussing and sharing? That is where theology started.

        We actually need another trinity, so to speak: we need the Bible, our brothers and sisters, and the Holy Spirit. When these come together, we have.... theology.
        Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
        George Orwell

        www.r2ucv.com



        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

          Originally posted by Boo View Post
          Depending on how we apply the bible, that is true.

          If we apply the Bible, depending on whether or not we actually understand it, we can learn how we are to follow Jesus. However, millions of people over the centuries have lived in the way that they thought the Bible taught them - and committed terrible crimes in the process.

          Without sitting in community and sharing Christ with each other, we lose much of what Jesus wants us to do. The Bible is a book - a book put together a few hundred years after Jesus went to be with His Father. It has been changed, organized, reorganized, and interpreted in several ways.

          The bible alone is not enough. We need each other as well. When we get together, we discuss and share. What do we call this process of discussing and sharing? That is where theology started.

          We actually need another trinity, so to speak: we need the Bible, our brothers and sisters, and the Holy Spirit. When these come together, we have.... theology.
          Your words sound like "Bible study".



          Now as I said before, theology sounds very interesting to study. I'll make that clear.



          By scripture itself, would a person have to be full of the Holy Spirit to be qualified to teach theology? Scripture reference below

          1 Corin 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
          14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

          Thoughts?
          Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

          I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

          Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
          And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
          Matt 25:46

          For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
          and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
          1 Tim 6:10

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

            Couple of thoughts brothers and sisters:

            1)Being in India I have seen a number of believers whose only book is the Bible without commentaries or cross references or concordance or even an index or dictionary. Yet they serve the Lord with pure devotion and learn their scriptures by reading, meditating, hearing, and having fellowship with other believers. They then evangelize this to some of the most remote parts of the country and bear much fruit.

            2)I am currently enrolled in a distance education affiliated with a well known seminary learning theology, Christian history, major religions, and other topics. What amazes me is that not all instructors with doctorate level degrees in their theological field of study are necessarily saved. This goes for some students as well. Both treat it as part of their career either earning a living or looking for a career progression. I am not being judgmental but it was my observation during some classes I recently attended.

            3)Bible Study in my opinion is more a fellowship but given a formal name especially in a small setting. The purpose is to learn about the Bible and ensure the broad understanding of the scripture is consistent with the way the author (Holy Spirit) intended it to be. At least this is what I experienced when I attended small bible study sessions when I was in the US.

            Last I read this morning in Galatians 1:12 Jesus revealed the truths to Paul and not man. We have countless other verses that demonstrate that only the Holy Spirit can reveal the truths. The Lord also said the Kingdom of God is a mystery and Jesus has to explain it to the disciples (Mark 4:10-11). Yet another example of Peter confessing Jesus is the Messiah because it was revealed unto him in Mathew 16:17.

            In a nutshell what am I saying:
            a)You only need the Bible, Holy Spirit, and someone more mature than you to be able to understand the spiritual truths of the Bible.
            b)In the developed nations it is unfortunate that Christians need so much additional resources to accept Christ and His teachings, whereas in the poorer parts of the world acceptance of Jesus requires just the plain old preaching.
            c)Theology can be taught just like any other academic subject and does NOT require the teacher to experience salvation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

              If we think "theology" requires a large building and people with PhD's, then we can do without them.

              However, "theology" really means the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

              Small groups, fellowship, spending time with another devoted Christian are all the practice of theology. It is only man who has formalized it and required diplomas.

              Those who are technical (also called "nitpickers") love to have additional resources. Some of them is for their own understanding while others are for their ability to show off their skills to others. The fact remains that man has perverted the meaning of verses of the Bible over the years. They got away with it because of the ignorance and gullibility of the listeners. IN many ways, that has come to an end. In some ways, it will always happen because of our desire to be entertained and emotionally swooned.

              Now, we don't need to be gullible. We don't need to be ignorant. However, removing gullibility and ignorance won't make us better Christians. It only makes us smarter ones. The transformation come from moving closer to God, not to man and to expensive educations.
              Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
              George Orwell

              www.r2ucv.com



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                Originally posted by Boo View Post
                If we think "theology" requires a large building and people with PhD's, then we can do without them.

                However, "theology" really means the study of the nature of God and religious belief.

                Small groups, fellowship, spending time with another devoted Christian are all the practice of theology. It is only man who has formalized it and required diplomas.

                Those who are technical (also called "nitpickers") love to have additional resources. Some of them is for their own understanding while others are for their ability to show off their skills to others. The fact remains that man has perverted the meaning of verses of the Bible over the years. They got away with it because of the ignorance and gullibility of the listeners. IN many ways, that has come to an end. In some ways, it will always happen because of our desire to be entertained and emotionally swooned.

                Now, we don't need to be gullible. We don't need to be ignorant. However, removing gullibility and ignorance won't make us better Christians. It only makes us smarter ones. The transformation come from moving closer to God, not to man and to expensive educations.

                I agree. We need to study the right things.

                We tend to trust our Bibles that are flawed, do to mistranslation???
                Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

                I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

                Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
                And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
                Matt 25:46

                For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
                and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
                1 Tim 6:10

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                  Originally posted by Protective Angel View Post
                  Theology really sounds interesting to study BUT.

                  Do we really need it to believe the Bible?




                  Luke 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

                  To have our minds as free and innocent as a little child. (unwise)




                  1 Corin 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
                  28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
                  29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
                  30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
                  31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.



                  Our teacher shall speak.

                  1 Corin 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
                  12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
                  13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
                  14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



                  For what is in this book and can it be changed?

                  Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
                  25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
                  26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
                  27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.



                  Important words.

                  Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
                  5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
                  6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.



                  Some say the next scripture only applies to that book. Thoughts?

                  Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
                  19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
                  Brother Angel, you have it backwards. One needs the Bible to have proper theology. The only theology that is right and just comes from God's Holy Word and only from God Himself.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                    Originally posted by Protective Angel View Post

                    I agree. We need to study the right things.

                    We tend to trust our Bibles that are flawed, do to mistranslation???
                    While man has mistranslated some of the source documents, and since there is evidence that some source documents have been altered, we need to search all of scriptures to determine truth. How many times have we all heard the phrase "scripture interprets scripture?" There is actually a reason for that.

                    There are some Bibles that I cannot read. They either are too difficult to understand and require the addition of a couple more books to use for references or the language is "too hip" or "too jive" for me and the understanding is dumbed down.

                    Those same Bible do find their way into hands of people who can discern the message from them, but not I.

                    I use basically four different translations when I teach, but I don't teach people with degrees in historic literature. I do sometimes people who have reading skills equivalent to third grade kids.

                    The learning happens during discussions within the group. It takes questions and answers to explore the ideas conveyed in the Bible translations.

                    That actually fits the definition of theology.

                    IN the end, when one of those attending the studies ends up with his "Aha!" moment, it because his understanding and he knows why he now believes a certain thing. He or she stops being a parrot who repeats the words of the teacher and becomes one who believes based on understanding what the Bible actually said. That is the mission of our Bible studies. That is the mission of theology.
                    Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                    George Orwell

                    www.r2ucv.com



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                      Originally posted by Culsey View Post
                      Brother Angel, you have it backwards. One needs the Bible to have proper theology. The only theology that is right and just comes from God's Holy Word and only from God Himself.
                      I'm saying that the Bible should be the first belief. Theology can follow as second hand.

                      The Bible is Gods inspired word. Theology is Gods word examined by sometimes not God inspired people.
                      Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

                      I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

                      Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
                      And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
                      Matt 25:46

                      For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
                      and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
                      1 Tim 6:10

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                        Originally posted by Boo View Post
                        While man has mistranslated some of the source documents, and since there is evidence that some source documents have been altered, we need to search all of scriptures to determine truth. How many times have we all heard the phrase "scripture interprets scripture?" There is actually a reason for that.

                        There are some Bibles that I cannot read. They either are too difficult to understand and require the addition of a couple more books to use for references or the language is "too hip" or "too jive" for me and the understanding is dumbed down.

                        Those same Bible do find their way into hands of people who can discern the message from them, but not I.

                        I use basically four different translations when I teach, but I don't teach people with degrees in historic literature. I do sometimes people who have reading skills equivalent to third grade kids.

                        The learning happens during discussions within the group. It takes questions and answers to explore the ideas conveyed in the Bible translations.

                        That actually fits the definition of theology.

                        IN the end, when one of those attending the studies ends up with his "Aha!" moment, it because his understanding and he knows why he now believes a certain thing. He or she stops being a parrot who repeats the words of the teacher and becomes one who believes based on understanding what the Bible actually said. That is the mission of our Bible studies. That is the mission of theology.
                        Yes my friend, that makes sense.

                        I'm not saying theology is bad. I'm saying Bible belief comes first. I think theology would be interesting to study.
                        Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

                        I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

                        Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
                        And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
                        Matt 25:46

                        For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
                        and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
                        1 Tim 6:10

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                          If the Bible is God's revelation to man, which it is, then theology is valid only when kept within it's parameters and subject to it's authority. Outside of that revelation, theology, much like philosophy, is an application of systematic human reasoning, which attempts to interpret that which cannot not be seen or sensed by human faculties, following rules invented by men.

                          ("I think therefore I am [I think"].

                          The blind leading the blind.

                          Theology did not reveal the truthfulness of God's word to me; it was more a matter of conscience, or even more succinctly, spiritual conviction, sparked to life through faith.

                          Believers are every bit as blind as unbelievers when it comes to deciphering the mysteries of existence or the existence of the Creator when they look for answers outside of what has been revealed.

                          Theology, like philosopy, can be a walk on the slippery rocks, and yet it increasingly appears to be the dominant means of Christian discourse today.

                          In light of that truth, I love to hear what God Himself says on any particular topic - scripture and verse, please -
                          and tend to hold most theological explanations of what someone thinks He meant, in suspicion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                            It is tough to understand the need for "theology" when we believe it comes only from Ivory towers and pedigreed men who have been chosen by their denomination as "the learned ones."

                            They can be just as wrong as everyone else.

                            If, of course, we realize that theological study can happen around our dinner table and in small groups, we may start to truly understand the importance of our small groups and our prayerful discussions.

                            For those who think a certificate proves our spiritual excellence and knowledge of "the truth," consider how many people with those certificates quit the church and go our into the world every month.
                            Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                            George Orwell

                            www.r2ucv.com



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Do we need theology to believe the Bible?

                              Theology certain helps but can also be a hindrance depending on how closed minded one becomes to other points of view. I've experienced both sides of that coin.
                              I know what I know
                              I know what I don't know
                              I don't know what I don't know.

                              Comment

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