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  • Having a Holiness Standard??? Huh WHat??!!?!

    What exactly is a Holiness Standard and where would I find one in the bible? I am wondering.

    Also is it possible to be holy as a christian in this world?

    What would it take to be holy?

    Am I holy because I am saved? or is there a stage in this walk with christ tha one becomes holy?
    I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
    My Rock & My Salvation
    Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
    Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

  • #2
    In my understanding 'Holiness' is thinking, saying and doing only what pleases God - as Jesus did. He is our 'standard'.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Frances View Post
      In my understanding 'Holiness' is thinking, saying and doing only what pleases God - as Jesus did. He is our 'standard'.
      Okay to be like Jesus = being Holy..well that makes sense. thanks
      I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
      My Rock & My Salvation
      Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
      Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Frances View Post
        In my understanding 'Holiness' is thinking, saying and doing only what pleases God - as Jesus did. He is our 'standard'.
        Actually the Greek word for Holy means "set apart". Thus to be Holy means to be set apart from the world. I think following your advice above would do the trick quite nicely.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
          What exactly is a Holiness Standard and where would I find one in the bible? I am wondering.
          Jesus Christ revealed through His Holy Spirit in us.

          Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
          Also is it possible to be holy as a christian in this world?
          What would it take to be holy?
          Yes. It is possible to be 'holy' as a believer in this world. It takes NOTHING to be holy.

          Holy means 'set apart for sacred or divine use'.

          Through your conversion, the Holy Spirit has set you apart from the world and has called you to be apart of His supernatural phenomena known as the church. Whatever the Holy Spirit puts on your Spirit (desire, faith, compassion, instruction, discipline, worship, prayer, etc.), it would be wise to follow through for your own sake, for Him. This is what naturally sets you apart as His Spirit in you brings you into a closer relationship with Him and into a unique position in the world.

          It's not your job to be a Christian in the world but to allow Christ live His life through you in accordance with His Spirit operating in you.

          Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
          Am I holy because I am saved? or is there a stage in this walk with christ tha one becomes holy?


          You are holy because you are saved and saved alone. You are not made 'holy' or 'more holy' later. That's a lie. You are made holy right now because of the Spirit's work in you, even if your emotions or flesh convince you otherwise.

          Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
          In my understanding 'Holiness' is thinking, saying and doing only what pleases God - as Jesus did. He is our 'standard'.[/quote
          Close. The question is not 'what would Jesus do' but 'what is Jesus doing'. If you try to base your life on Jesus in the bible, you're going to find it hard because he was born under the Law and followed the Law and taught the Law. In his coming, death and resurrection, he fulfilled the Law and gave us His Spirit to live in. To walk in the presence and power of His Holy Spirit is far greater then living under the severity of the Law.
          Knowing this, rightly divide what Jesus says. Is he talking to me through His spirit here? Or is he talking to Jews under the Law?

          Indeed Jesus Christ is your standard, but not by imitating His life written down in a book, but rather what He has written down on your heart through His Spirit. By keeping your eyes on Him, praying and consulting scripture, He will reveal to you amazing things about Himself about who He is in your life. His Spirit will keep you accountable if you allow Him too.

          Jesus Christ is your standard because His Holy Spirit is in you. If you read the writings of Paul, you will discover that you live in His righteousness, blessing, love, joy, peace, faithfulness, hope, kindness, gentlenessss, discipline, humility, intimacy and many other things. Christ has imparted His life into yours so that you are already like Him! Scary isn't it?!

          Now he wishes to teach you to be responsible with the power He has given you.


          God bless!
          Joztok
          Nothing more. Nothing less.
          My faith in Christ is righteousness!
          Jesus came to save us, His Spirit to change us.
          Christ covers OUR imperfection with HIS perfection!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by joztok View Post
            Jesus Christ revealed through His Holy Spirit in us.



            Yes. It is possible to be 'holy' as a believer in this world. It takes NOTHING to be holy.

            Holy means 'set apart for sacred or divine use'.

            Through your conversion, the Holy Spirit has set you apart from the world and has called you to be apart of His supernatural phenomena known as the church. Whatever the Holy Spirit puts on your Spirit (desire, faith, compassion, instruction, discipline, worship, prayer, etc.), it would be wise to follow through for your own sake, for Him. This is what naturally sets you apart as His Spirit in you brings you into a closer relationship with Him and into a unique position in the world.

            It's not your job to be a Christian in the world but to allow Christ live His life through you in accordance with His Spirit operating in you.




            You are holy because you are saved and saved alone. You are not made 'holy' or 'more holy' later. That's a lie. You are made holy right now because of the Spirit's work in you, even if your emotions or flesh convince you otherwise.



            Knowing this, rightly divide what Jesus says. Is he talking to me through His spirit here? Or is he talking to Jews under the Law?

            Indeed Jesus Christ is your standard, but not by imitating His life written down in a book, but rather what He has written down on your heart through His Spirit. By keeping your eyes on Him, praying and consulting scripture, He will reveal to you amazing things about Himself about who He is in your life. His Spirit will keep you accountable if you allow Him too.

            Jesus Christ is your standard because His Holy Spirit is in you. If you read the writings of Paul, you will discover that you live in His righteousness, blessing, love, joy, peace, faithfulness, hope, kindness, gentlenessss, discipline, humility, intimacy and many other things. Christ has imparted His life into yours so that you are already like Him! Scary isn't it?!

            Now he wishes to teach you to be responsible with the power He has given you.


            God bless!
            Joztok

            Thank you for the break down I understand it now..to me i just feel so unworthy of all this glory God has given to me...its just whoa!
            I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
            My Rock & My Salvation
            Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
            Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by joztok View Post
              Jesus Christ revealed through His Holy Spirit in us.



              Yes. It is possible to be 'holy' as a believer in this world. It takes NOTHING to be holy.

              Holy means 'set apart for sacred or divine use'.

              Through your conversion, the Holy Spirit has set you apart from the world and has called you to be apart of His supernatural phenomena known as the church. Whatever the Holy Spirit puts on your Spirit (desire, faith, compassion, instruction, discipline, worship, prayer, etc.), it would be wise to follow through for your own sake, for Him. This is what naturally sets you apart as His Spirit in you brings you into a closer relationship with Him and into a unique position in the world.

              It's not your job to be a Christian in the world but to allow Christ live His life through you in accordance with His Spirit operating in you.



              You are holy because you are saved and saved alone. You are not made 'holy' or 'more holy' later. That's a lie. You are made holy right now because of the Spirit's work in you, even if your emotions or flesh convince you otherwise.



              Knowing this, rightly divide what Jesus says. Is he talking to me through His spirit here? Or is he talking to Jews under the Law?

              Indeed Jesus Christ is your standard, but not by imitating His life written down in a book, but rather what He has written down on your heart through His Spirit. By keeping your eyes on Him, praying and consulting scripture, He will reveal to you amazing things about Himself about who He is in your life. His Spirit will keep you accountable if you allow Him too.

              Jesus Christ is your standard because His Holy Spirit is in you. If you read the writings of Paul, you will discover that you live in His righteousness, blessing, love, joy, peace, faithfulness, hope, kindness, gentlenessss, discipline, humility, intimacy and many other things. Christ has imparted His life into yours so that you are already like Him! Scary isn't it?!

              Now he wishes to teach you to be responsible with the power He has given you.


              God bless!
              Joztok
              Word!!! Seconded. Infact, Thirded, Fourthed, Fifthed and Sixthed.
              You can NEVER Out-Give God. Try Him, you'll be embarrassed!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by joztok View Post
                You are holy because you are saved and saved alone.
                ...
                By keeping your eyes on Him, praying and consulting scripture, He will reveal to you amazing things about Himself about who He is in your life. His Spirit will keep you accountable if you allow Him too.
                There appears to be tension between the above two statements.

                Holiness, or sanctification, at the minimum can be viewed as something that happens during one's Christian walk and not only at salvation.
                Originally posted by joztok
                You are not made 'holy' or 'more holy' later. That's a lie. You are made holy right now because of the Spirit's work in you, even if your emotions or flesh convince you otherwise.
                I think we have to be careful here. Our Spiritual birth is not the finish line, but rather the starting line. Consider:

                I Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

                2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

                3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

                4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

                5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

                6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

                7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

                8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

                Who is Paul beseeching and exhorting to in verse 1? The brethren. What is beseeched? What is exhorted? Why?

                When we say to disregard what we may be convinced of regarding our walk and the acceptance thereof, I think the proper response would be more to really examine ourselves. We should open ourselves up to some beseechment, or some exhortation on the matter. We certainly shouldn't throw in the towel and just claim a holiness that isn't of God. Right?

                God Bless!
                Watchinginawe

                I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JesusReignsForever View Post
                  Thank you for the break down I understand it now..to me i just feel so unworthy of all this glory God has given to me...its just whoa!
                  It is humbling, actually.

                  Here's the big part; this glory you now feel is not to be compared to the one to be revealed. Just walk in Steps with Him...and see your self move from glory to glory. The scriptures tell us that He actually wants to 'empty' Himself in us. Can you believe that!

                  Its really like Whao!!!
                  You can NEVER Out-Give God. Try Him, you'll be embarrassed!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post
                    There appears to be tension between the above two statements.

                    Holiness, or sanctification, at the minimum can be viewed as something that happens during one's Christian walk and not only at salvation.I think we have to be careful here. Our Spiritual birth is not the finish line, but rather the starting line. Consider:

                    I Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

                    2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

                    3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

                    4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

                    5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

                    6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

                    7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

                    8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

                    Who is Paul beseeching and exhorting to in verse 1? The brethren. What is beseeched? What is exhorted? Why?

                    When we say to disregard what we may be convinced of regarding our walk and the acceptance thereof, I think the proper response would be more to really examine ourselves. We should open ourselves up to some beseechment, or some exhortation on the matter. We certainly shouldn't throw in the towel and just claim a holiness that isn't of God. Right?

                    God Bless!
                    Surely, Watchinginawe, you have to agree that you can be more holy. You are either Holy or you are not, and you are Holy if jehovah says you are. Of course, we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling which is why He commends to be Holy because He is holy. It is necessary that we stand fast in the LIberTY wherewith Christ has made us free (Gal 5:1). [The Good News says, Freedom is what we have---Christ has set us free! Stand, then, as free people, and do not allow yourselves to become slaves again]

                    But seriously, what can we do to please God? For one, that which we think we do to please God, the atheist and sinner can do the same and approve of the same. Does that mean they please God, or that they are holy? Its so mind-blowing when the scriptures says, It is impossible to please God, with out FAITH.

                    For another, that which we do today and believe we have pleased God, Tomorrow we DON'T do it, and believe we have displeased God. The day after we do it again. We have to agree that it is impossible to fulfil the righteousness of the law in the flesh.

                    Its by grace that we are saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast.

                    That said, we do need to guard against the enemy of our soul, the devil. We do need to mount a watch over heart for out of it are the issues of life (Pro 4:23) [GNB: Be careful what you think--Your life is shaped by your thoughts]. We do need to Pray without seizing. We do need to study. We do need to be instant in and out of season. We do need to give. We do need to Love (this is suppose to come natural to a heart given to Holy Spirit cos He sheds the love abroad in our hearts). We do need to stand in defence of the gospel. WE WILL suffer persecution when live godly. (Persecution comes with godliness). etc etc

                    But it will be good if we accept the present state and nature of our regenerated spirit, first: made HOLY, given the Righteousness of God (which is by Christ Jesus), having the life of God (eternal Life), FORGIVEN, Has koinonia/access with Jehovah, Has the Love of God (unconditionally), etc. etc

                    God Bless
                    You can NEVER Out-Give God. Try Him, you'll be embarrassed!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There's two fancy terms for what you're talking about. *theology mode ON*

                      They are called justification and sanctification. You can read all about them in Romans.

                      Justification is what happened at the cross, and when you truly trusted Christ to be your Mediator and your First Love.

                      Sanctification is the Holy Spirit's job of conforming you to the image of God's Son (Romans 8:29).


                      So I guess to put it simply, justification is God's work FOR you,

                      and sanctification is God's work IN you.


                      /theology mode OFF


                      be blessed

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JesusMySavior View Post
                        There's two fancy terms for what you're talking about. *theology mode ON*

                        They are called justification and sanctification. You can read all about them in Romans.

                        Justification is what happened at the cross, and when you truly trusted Christ to be your Mediator and your First Love.

                        Sanctification is the Holy Spirit's job of conforming you to the image of God's Son (Romans 8:29).


                        So I guess to put it simply, justification is God's work FOR you,

                        and sanctification is God's work IN you.


                        /theology mode OFF


                        be blessed




                        Gotcha! That made perfect sense...thanks!
                        I will sing of your works & your mighty ways
                        My Rock & My Salvation
                        Who will hide me in the time of trouble?
                        Who is like the lord, so full of gace and truth!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Steps View Post
                          Surely, Watchinginawe, you have to agree that you can be more holy. You are either Holy or you are not, and you are Holy if jehovah says you are.
                          I suppose you meant can't be more holy? I don't know about that. Consider this. Joztok offered:
                          Originally posted by Joztok
                          By keeping your eyes on Him, praying and consulting scripture, He will reveal to you amazing things about Himself about who He is in your life. His Spirit will keep you accountable if you allow Him too.
                          Now some would call that a continuing work of God in us. I am OK with that. But here is how Paul referred to that in the previous chapter in I Thessalonians that I quoted (these are the 3 verses just prior to the 4th chapter I quoted):

                          I Thessalonians 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

                          12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

                          13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

                          Now what I rest my arguement on is my belief that an attitude of "I got it all at salvation" may result in one not recognizing the grace of God offered to us in verse 12-13. You see, it isn't US doing the work, it is GOD doing the work within us. Where some will probably fall out with me is that I believe that one can decide to NOT allow God to continue His work within us. But, the next verse I think makes the point.

                          I Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

                          Abound more and more? As in more what? We see first that abounding more and more is a result of a walk pleasing to God. There is a way to abound more and more. We see that this must not be a binary truth (have, don't have), so what is Paul talking about here about abounding more and more? Looking back to 3:12, he is talking about love. What does more and more love result in? 3:13 says establishing our hearts blameless in holiness.

                          I don't see it as us not being holy while being made more holy. Just us being made more holy, or more perfect. Consider these passages (bolded for emphasis):

                          II Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

                          15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

                          16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

                          17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

                          18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

                          7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.


                          II Timonthy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

                          20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

                          21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

                          22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.


                          If God by His grace intends to sanctify us, either subsequent and/or continually after saving us, and we reject and resist the notion altogether, then how can God's grace abound towards us? Paul, in Romans offers:

                          Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

                          2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
                          ...
                          12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

                          13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

                          The question really boils down to whether we as Christians will yield to sin or yield to God.

                          Am I perfect? Uh, no. That isn't the point. Is God working in me? Yes, I am a hard case, but He is making a difference.

                          God Bless!
                          Watchinginawe

                          I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jesus the Standard

                            Jesus is the standard for holiness. And because "in him we live and move and have our being", we are holy in Jesus. Any holiness apart from being in Christ Jesus is filthy rag.
                            sigpicLife! Just Live It!
                            http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Amen to the post above mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                              John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.


                              My testimony: http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=137007

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