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Elder/Pastor Question! (Moved to Bible Chat)

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  • Elder/Pastor Question! (Moved to Bible Chat)

    Hello Everyone,

    I'm researching the requirements if you will, for a Pastor. Everywhere I've looked treats Elders and Pastors interchangeably. I don't think this is correct. I know the requirements for Elder/Deacon, 1 Tim. 3:2 and Titus 1:6 and I know that Peter says of himself and the other elders to "Be shepherds of God's flock", and I know that a Pastor is a shepherd but I don't think that Elders/pastor is one in the same. The responsibilities of an Elder and Pastor are different. Biblical information required please.

    Anyone have any insight on this?

    Thanks All,

    Junos

  • #2
    Hi Junos,

    You've posted in an area of the board that is reserved for non-Christians to ask questions of our faith, so I'm moving this to Bible Chat where you can get some answers.

    Thanks.
    Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



    ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


    A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

    Comment


    • #3
      How about this one:

      1 Pe 5:2-3
      2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;
      NKJV
      Blessings,

      Road Warrior


      Proverbs 4:23
      23 Guard your heart above all else,
      for it determines the course of your life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RoadWarrior View Post
        How about this one:

        1 Pe 5:2-3
        2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;
        NKJV
        That's my main quesiton. I don't think this verse actually means to call them pastors if you will? My thought is Elder/Pastor are two different positions. I'm looking for more on this, I don't want to just settle.

        Thank you for you answer.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Junos View Post
          That's my main quesiton. I don't think this verse actually means to call them pastors if you will? My thought is Elder/Pastor are two different positions. I'm looking for more on this, I don't want to just settle.

          Thank you for you answer.
          I agree that the positions in a church are different, elder and pastor. Some would argue that the pastor must also be an elder, but that you can be an elder without also being a pastor.

          I thought you had answered for yourself what the requirements were for elders. I was responding to your question about pastors. I believe that pastor and shepherd have the same meaning, in terms of the position of the person in the church, the "pastor". His job is the same as a shepherd over a flock of sheep.

          I applaud you for not "just settling", and would encourage you to pursue a study on the word shepherd.

          Others will be along shortly to toss in their opinions, so I'm sure that in the end you will have much to choose from.
          Blessings,

          Road Warrior


          Proverbs 4:23
          23 Guard your heart above all else,
          for it determines the course of your life.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Junos View Post
            Hello Everyone,

            I'm researching the requirements if you will, for a Pastor. Everywhere I've looked treats Elders and Pastors interchangeably. I don't think this is correct. I know the requirements for Elder/Deacon, 1 Tim. 3:2 and Titus 1:6 and I know that Peter says of himself and the other elders to "Be shepherds of God's flock", and I know that a Pastor is a shepherd but I don't think that Elders/pastor is one in the same. The responsibilities of an Elder and Pastor are different. Biblical information required please.

            Anyone have any insight on this?

            Thanks All,

            Junos
            The word is most often used interchangeably but there is a difference. The office of the elder includes ministry to the sick (James 5:14-15), they taught in a local congregation by ministering the scriptures (1 Tim 5:17, 1 Peter 5:5). But they were not shepherds

            Today, we clearly see differences in the roles of an elder versus a pastor. Elders function more in administering the churches as Presbyters with dignity, wisdom and maturity. (1 Tim 4:14).

            Pastors function more as a spiritual leader in the church like bishops. Bishops are to oversee the flock of God, to shepherd His people, to protect them from enemies, and to teach, exhort and encourage.
            Amazzin

            Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

            CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



            Comment


            • #7
              The NT model of leadership WAS multiple elders. Church was not as it is today. There is no senior pastor role in the early church. While there is certainly a distinction between "bishop" and "deacon", they are all considered elders. The elders led the church and power did not reside in the hands of a single "pastor".
              For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

              If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

              Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by amazzin View Post
                Pastors function more as a spiritual leader in the church like bishops. Bishops are to oversee the flock of God, to shepherd His people, to protect them from enemies, and to teach, exhort and encourage.
                But aren't elders and bishops the same?

                The elders [presbuteroi] who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ... 1 Pet 5:1 NKJV

                Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers [or bishops = episkopoi]... 1 Pet 5:2a NKJV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                  But aren't elders and bishops the same?

                  The elders [presbuteroi] who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ... 1 Pet 5:1 NKJV

                  Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers [or bishops = episkopoi]... 1 Pet 5:2a NKJV
                  Hi 9Marksfan,

                  I would say yes they are the same...

                  1 Peter 5:1-2 brings them together. Peter instructs the elders to be good
                  bishops as they pastor.

                  1Pe 5:1 The elders [πρεσβύτερος][Strong's G4245, presbuteros] which
                  are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the
                  sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be
                  revealed:

                  1Pe 5:2 Feed [ποιμαίνω][Strong's G4165, poimaino] the flock of God
                  which is among you, taking the oversight [ἐπισκοπέω][Strong's G1983,
                  episkopeo] [thereof], not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre,
                  but of a ready mind;

                  And...

                  Acts 20:28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which
                  the Holy Spirit has made you overseers [episkopos], to shepherd
                  [pomaino] the church of God.

                  presbyteros (Strong's G4245) elders [πρεσβύτερος]
                  1) elder, of age,
                  a) the elder of two people
                  b) advanced in life, an elder, a senior
                  1) forefathers
                  2) a term of rank or office
                  a) among the Jews
                  1) members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the
                  rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
                  2) of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered
                  justice
                  b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or
                  churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters
                  interchangeably
                  c) the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated
                  on thrones around the throne of God

                  episkopos (Strong's G1985) overseer [ἐπίσκοπος]
                  1) an overseer
                  a) a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by
                  others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent
                  b) the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church

                  poimainō (Strong's G4165) feed [ποιμαίνω]
                  1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
                  a) to rule, govern
                  1) of rulers
                  2) to furnish pasture for food
                  3) to nourish
                  4) to cherish one's body, to serve the body
                  5) to supply the requisites for the soul's need

                  Now I know what some are saying, none of the above definitions say
                  pastor. In that they would be correct. Although, what does a pastor /
                  shephard do? Feed, tend, keep the flock.

                  poimēn (Strong's G4166) shepherd / pastor [ποιμήν]
                  1) a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
                  a) in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed
                  themselves, and whose precepts they follow
                  2) metaph.
                  a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ
                  the Head of the church
                  1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
                  2) of kings and princes

                  Hope this helps,
                  KingFisher
                  When I say... "I am a Christian", I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin."
                  I'm whispering "I was lost, Now I'm found and forgiven".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    More on the Pastor....

                    Heres a better question:

                    Do you think it's OK to use the requirements to be an elder for selecting a pastor? If not, how do we find the requirements for a pastor, biblically of course?

                    Thanks for the help all!!!

                    Junos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've been in several different churches.

                      Presbyterians believe in a Pastor as a Bishop of sorts, in the PCA i grew up in, neither the Pastor, or Assistant Pastor were "official members of the church", but instead belonged to the Presbytery or assembly of the church so to speak. They also separate the work of the Elders and Deacons. The standards for Elders are typically higher than that for deacons, and Elders are typically involved in the teaching ministry of the Church, as well as in making sure that what is being taught matches with scripture, while deacons are intended to serve the church, and do many times without the rest of the congregation knowing.

                      In the Baptist Churches I've been a member, Elders are looked at as Senior members of the Congregation, and their role is merged with that of Deacons, I'm really not sure why they do that.

                      In a non denom church i was a part, they didn't have a "office" of elder, but did have deacons, and would rotate people to serve as I want to say administrators, but in reality they served as the board of the Church, and helped in that area.

                      I'm not sure if that helps answer you question though :/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can use any information. Thanks your the info!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Urban Missionary View Post
                          The NT model of leadership WAS multiple elders. Church was not as it is today. There is no senior pastor role in the early church. While there is certainly a distinction between "bishop" and "deacon", they are all considered elders. The elders led the church and power did not reside in the hands of a single "pastor".
                          Do you not think perhaps that Paul was a "pastor" figure? It was not about having power, it was about shepherding the flock, as Jesus had taught the apostles to do.
                          Blessings,

                          Road Warrior


                          Proverbs 4:23
                          23 Guard your heart above all else,
                          for it determines the course of your life.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Junos View Post
                            Heres a better question:

                            Do you think it's OK to use the requirements to be an elder for selecting a pastor?
                            Howdy Junos,

                            presbyteros (Strong's G4245) elders [πρεσβύτερος]
                            b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or
                            churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters
                            interchangeably.

                            poimēn (Strong's G4166) shepherd / pastor [ποιμήν]
                            a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ
                            the Head of the church
                            1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies

                            Sure...if they're the same office then why not.

                            God bless,
                            KingFisher
                            When I say... "I am a Christian", I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin."
                            I'm whispering "I was lost, Now I'm found and forgiven".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A pastor is a gift to the church, not an office.

                              People of all stripes, maturity, and gender are pastors, as they are the ones that God has supernaturally gifted to care, guide, lead, and shepherd the members of the congregation. No different than any other spiritual gift.

                              Elders have a different role.

                              One can be an elder and not be a pastor.
                              One can be a pastor and not be an elder.
                              One can be both a pastor and an elder.

                              Our problem is that we equate "pastor" to a job or office instead of keeping it the "gift" that God made it. Everything we do after that is just man-made religion.

                              Comment

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