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  • Discussion Where does faith comes from?

    Some say it is a gift, some say it is not. Some say there are different types of faith some say faith is just faith...

    ... what/who gives faith or where/why does faith originate?
    The Rapture

    My dearest friends, I’m so sorry… so sorry
    but I must confess, don’t worry
    the rapture is not before the Great Tribulation
    it’s before God’s wrath!!!

    Because His wrath is not meant for you
    it’s for all the people in the zoo
    think about it and refresh…
    you will see there’s no way out of here, in the flesh

    If you really believe, you will see
    the rapture is for you and me
    when we decide to leave from here
    that very day, oh! God adhere…



  • #2
    Re: Where does faith comes from?

    Originally posted by CFJ View Post
    Some say it is a gift, some say it is not. Some say there are different types of faith some say faith is just faith...

    ... what/who gives faith or where/why does faith originate?
    Faith originates with God. If God did not draw us (John 6:44) and enable us (John 6:65) then none of us would come to saving faith in Christ, but we choose to have faith in Christ once drawn and enabled. I believe that salvation and not faith is "the gift of God" in Ephesians 2:8. Amplified Bible - For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

    Romans 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

    1 Corinthians 12:9 - to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit.

    God has granted a differing measure of faith to His children, faith by the same Spirit is listed under spiritual gifts. I don't see this as saving faith that all Christians have in Christ, since Paul implies that some in the body have it and others don't. I see it as a special endowment of faith to accomplish certain tasks in ministry.
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Where does faith comes from?

      Originally posted by CFJ View Post
      Some say it is a gift, some say it is not. Some say there are different types of faith some say faith is just faith...

      ... what/who gives faith or where/why does faith originate?
      I have never heard anyone say that faith is not a gift. Everything we have is a gift of God. This includes faith: the ability to trust and believe in things, people, ideologies, strength of armies, 401k's, idols, etc.

      Even small babies have faith. If they did not have faith that their mothers wouldn't drop them, they would never stop howling and could never be pacified. Their minds would never develop in a healthy way. They would be crazy.

      Every human has faith in different things. We all search for heroes that we can put our belief and trust in. We all search for feelings of security. We WANT to feel safe and secure.

      All things that men put their faith in are delusions - except for one. Anything a man puts his faith in, other than God, will eventually disappoint him.

      But man CAN'T put his faith in God unless and until God draws him and heals his blindness. I could no more put my faith in God than I could put it in the tooth fairy until He healed my blindness and I could see He existed.

      And then, even after that, I still struggled to maintain that faith because everyone scoffs at me and tells me I take my faith in God too far. They tell me what a deluded fool I am if I think God will provide for me when I haven't saved any treasure on earth. Then I read again all Jesus told me and I read the Exodus again and I set my forehead against family, friends, the wisdom of the world, and I keep my faith in God. It isn't always easy to be constantly told what a fool I am - and sometimes even by other christians. But the freedom and peace I have gained in Him is much stronger than the derision of the entire world and even the derision of my own mind sometimes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Where does faith comes from?

        I am also not aware of anybody who denies that faith is a gift in a certain sense. The real difference lies, as far as I'm concerned with the nature of faith itself.
        Some people perceive it to be a substance that God can dish out and allocate to people, like a vaccine or a serum.

        Others believe that faith isn't a thing, but rather a response. Just like pride is a response that a father has when he sees his newborn baby, likewise faith is a response that people have when they countenance the revelation of God. I believe it is precisely for this reason that faith cannot be meritorious, because it isn't something substantive that comes from within, but rather a response because of what God did.

        Those who believe that faith is a substance will generally also view it as meritorious, because they see faith as a thing of value.
        Those who see faith as a response to goodness, will argue that the goodness that faith responds to is the meritorious thing, and not the faith.

        So I too believe that faith is a gift in that God picked it, instead of some meritorious thing, to be the criteria for salvation. Not only that but God alone is the reason why faith is even possible, because for there to be a response (faith) there has to be a object to express that faith towards.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Where does faith comes from?

          Faith comes from us, it's in our nature to believe in God. However, it's also in our nature to believe lies.

          Without a strong influence from God to cultivate our faith and make it grow, it dies. On our own, we're dead to God, and alive to sin.

          Let's look at it like this. If no one was knocking on the door of your heart, asking to be let inside, would you open to door to go looking for that person? No.

          God knocks, pounds and beats on the door if he has to. He WILL GET IN THERE, he's put his mind to it.

          So yeah, faith comes from us, but God is the one that put his spirit in us, renewed us, and grows us.

          Paul was a preacher and teacher of the Gospel, just a messenger, he knew full well that God is the one that waters the seed and makes it grow.
          As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Where does faith comes from?

            Jesus clearly taught two levels of faith in Him. The first believed in Him because they saw miracles. Their minds accepted that He was a prophet of God, or even the Messiah. But it was an outward faith. It was a faith about Jesus (see John 2.23-25; 6.14). It was a faith that wanted things from Jesus in return for their acceptance of Him as prophet or Messiah. They listened to what Jesus said and decided for themselves what they would obey. They know that He is. It is the kind of faith religionists have, whether JWs, Mormons, or Muslims. It is faith in an idea or a system of doctrine. Many professing Christians have this type of faith but have no root. They believe 'about' not 'into'

            The second believe 'into' Him. Theirs is a faith which responds to Him as a person. It is saving faith. It is a faith that recognises that they must obey Him because He is their Lord and Master. It involves personal relationship. They know that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. They are committed to Him. Such faith can only be worked in them by the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1.2)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Where does faith comes from?

              Originally posted by chisel View Post
              I am also not aware of anybody who denies that faith is a gift in a certain sense.
              I would agree that faith is a gift in a certain sense.

              God alone is the reason why faith is even possible, because for there to be a response (faith) there has to be a object to express that faith towards.
              Amen! Apart from God, there would be no grace or object to place faith in (Jesus Christ) as the all sufficient means of our salvation.
              Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Where does faith comes from?

                Originally posted by CFJ View Post
                Some say it is a gift, some say it is not. Some say there are different types of faith some say faith is just faith...

                ... what/who gives faith or where/why does faith originate?
                Faith is an ability God gave his creation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Where does faith comes from?

                  I believe faith is what God did through sending his Son into the world. God determined (before the foundation of the world) he would send his Son into the world to be obedient unto death, thus God also (before the foundation of the world) gave the promise of the hope of eternal life, for that Son, for the purpose of destroying the works of Satan the devil.

                  The Christ, Jesus of Nazareth, born of woman was obedient unto that death and God raised him from the dead, incorruptible and to die no more. The grace of God.

                  That is the grace through the faith by which man could be saved. Man's salvation is a gift from God.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Where does faith comes from?

                    Interesting that all that have replied in this thread, views faith as a gift of some sort. How would you see faith in the following 5 verses/passages and where applicable, could you see faith therein?

                    God gave each a measure of faith?
                    For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
                    (Rom 12:3)


                    Faith by the Spirit?
                    Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.... To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
                    (1Co 12:4 & 9)


                    A gift, is faith part of this?
                    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
                    (Eph 2:8)


                    What does it mean, if/when Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith?
                    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
                    (Heb 12:2)


                    Could faith be a perfect gift?
                    Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
                    (Jas 1:17)
                    The Rapture

                    My dearest friends, I’m so sorry… so sorry
                    but I must confess, don’t worry
                    the rapture is not before the Great Tribulation
                    it’s before God’s wrath!!!

                    Because His wrath is not meant for you
                    it’s for all the people in the zoo
                    think about it and refresh…
                    you will see there’s no way out of here, in the flesh

                    If you really believe, you will see
                    the rapture is for you and me
                    when we decide to leave from here
                    that very day, oh! God adhere…


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Where does faith comes from?

                      Initially, the faith that we begin our journey on is different from the faith that we end up living with.

                      The faith to come to Christ is small. It is that spark that says "I want to have the life that God chooses for me."

                      God nurtures that seed in many ways. For me, He proves the validity of that original faith every day in what God shows me, does for me, and grants to me. He gives me purpose and then empowers me to fulfill that purpose. He blesses me - and sometimes - it is the recognition that my life is blessed that grows my faith. Yes, in that way, my faith is a gift from God.

                      It is not a pill, not an injection, not a magic word. It is God involved in my life that grows my faith. The more I draw to Him, the stronger my faith. I know because He does. He does because I believe and trust.

                      It is difficult to explain that to someone who does not experience it.
                      Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
                      George Orwell

                      www.r2ucv.com



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Where does faith comes from?

                        Originally posted by CFJ View Post
                        Interesting that all that have replied in this thread, views faith as a gift of some sort. How would you see faith in the following 5 verses/passages and where applicable, could you see faith therein?

                        God gave each a measure of faith?
                        For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
                        (Rom 12:3)
                        God has granted a differing measure of faith to His children. I see this as the correct proportion of supernatural endowment and ability that God gives each believer.

                        Faith by the Spirit?
                        Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.... To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
                        (1Co 12:4 & 9)
                        I don't see this as faith that all Christians have in Christ, since Paul implies that some in the body have it and others don't. I see it as a special endowment of faith to accomplish certain tasks in ministry.

                        A gift, is faith part of this?
                        For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
                        (Eph 2:8)
                        We are enabled by God's enabling power, which is His grace to come to faith in Christ. This grace is unmerited. We did nothing to earn it. The impulse to faith comes from God. He draws us in and enables us to place faith in Christ for salvation then we have to choose to place faith in Christ for salvation. If God did not draw us or enable us then NONE of us would come to saving faith in Christ. No one comes to Me unless the Father draws him (John 6:44). This implies that no human being on his own, has the moral or spiritual ability to come to Christ unless the Father draws him, that is, gives him the desire and inclination to come and the ability to trust exclusively in Christ for salvation. In that sense, faith is in some way a gift, but I believe the gift of God here in Ephesians 2:8 is the salvation that is implied by the word "saved." "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this not of yourselves, it [the salvation] is the gift of God. Some view all of it "saved by grace through faith" as the gift of God. Saving faith in Christ is not a direct gift from God given to some but not others unconditionally.

                        What does it mean, if/when Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith?
                        Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
                        (Heb 12:2)
                        Jesus is the author, "originator or creator." The Greek word translated "author" in Hebrews 12:2 can also mean "captain" or "chief leader". Jesus Christ is the beginner of faith, the leader, and the reason behind it all. He is the author or efficient cause of it. The Greek word translated "perfecter" in Hebrews 12:2 appears only this one time in the New Testament. It means literally "completer" or "finisher" and speaks of bringing something to it's conclusion. Putting the two words together, we see that Jesus, both creates and sustains our faith. Faith originates with God, so once again, in that sense, it's a gift.

                        Could faith be a perfect gift?
                        Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
                        (Jas 1:17)
                        Spiritual gifts are from above. 1 Corinthians 12:9 - to another faith by the same Spirit.. I would not exclude that from good and perfect gift.
                        Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Where does faith comes from?

                          From the heart.
                          ***
                          Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
                          For You are the God of my salvation;
                          On You I wait all the day.

                          Psalms 25:5
                          ***

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Where does faith comes from?

                            Originally posted by CFJ View Post
                            Interesting that all that have replied in this thread, views faith as a gift of some sort. How would you see faith in the following 5 verses/passages and where applicable, could you see faith therein?

                            God gave each a measure of faith?
                            For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
                            (Rom 12:3)


                            Faith by the Spirit?
                            Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.... To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
                            (1Co 12:4 & 9)


                            A gift, is faith part of this?
                            For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
                            (Eph 2:8)


                            What does it mean, if/when Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith?
                            Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
                            (Heb 12:2)


                            Could faith be a perfect gift?
                            Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
                            (Jas 1:17)
                            Hello again CFJ!
                            The last verse you gave here, the Father of lights, reminds me of when John speaks of the light that lights every man coming into the world. That makes Him the Author of our faith. It makes me want to go read James when I curl up in bed tonight.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Where does faith comes from?

                              I think, Christ in you the hope of glory, brings within you, the faith of Christ, who has been glorified by the Father. A couple of verses relative to this thought.

                              Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:21
                              And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (with him?) Romans 8:17

                              Concerning that hope of glory. Hope?

                              For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Romans 8:24,25

                              What does this saved by hope concern? Verse 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

                              Without the obedience of faith, Jesus becoming obedient unto death even the death of the cross there would be no glory by the resurrection of the dead.

                              Comment

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