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  • satan causes Jesus' death?

    if satan earlier in the scriptures tries to keep Jesus from the cross, why does he later enter judas to betray Him

  • #2
    A bit of help knowing where the enemy tried to keep Jesus from the cross please. I don't know what scriptures you speak of.

    This did come to mind though...

    To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things which angels desire to look into. (1Pe 1:12 NKJV)

    We know things hidden from the angels, both good and bad spirits as I understand. The enemy does not know he is already defeated as I see it. Plus it fulfilled a whole bunch of prophecy.

    Peace,

    Joe


    Comment


    • #3
      i dont know how to use this website i cant figure out how to respond to people who reply to me i dont know if this is going to work but in Matt. 4 we see satan knows who Jesus is and tries to tempt him to stray from God. also in matt. 8:28-31 these demons knew who He was and what He was about to do. also in matt. 16:21-23 we see when Jesus fortells his death peter says this shall never be and Jesus replies to peter "get behind me satan!" and like you said there were prophecies. satan knew the scriptures well. he used them in his tempts toward Jesus. so therefore satan knew Jesus and His purpose.

      Comment


      • #4
        reply with scriptures

        [quote=Walstib;1870782]A bit of help knowing where the enemy tried to keep Jesus from the cross please. I don't know what scriptures you speak of.

        This did come to mind though...

        To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven--things which angels desire to look into. (1Pe 1:12 NKJV)

        We know things hidden from the angels, both good and bad spirits as I understand. The enemy does not know he is already defeated as I see it. Plus it fulfilled a whole bunch of prophecy.

        Peace,

        Joe


        [/quote
        i dont know if im doing this right. i tried to respond to you but i just replied to myself. im new at this. please look at satan causes Jesus' death again to see my reply to myself that was actually meant for you. sorry. just came on today.

        Comment


        • #5
          brant...you don't have to quote someone to be replying to them...you can just type their name like I just did yours. To quote someone though, look at the bottom of their post and click on the quote button. That will quote then and you can type under the quoted part.

          It takes a little time to learn all the features on here...don't get too frustrated.

          Anyway back to the topic....so you feel that satan was trying to stop Jesus from dying on the cross by tempting Him, correct?

          Matthew 4
          Satan Tempts Jesus
          1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
          4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
          5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:


          ‘ He shall give His angels charge over you,’

          and,


          ‘ In their hands they shall bear you up,
          Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”

          7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’”
          8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
          10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
          11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.


          I just don't see anything here about satan's goal in not wanting Him to die on the cross. He was trying to tempt Jesus, so He would sin! And of course satan would love to have Jesus bow down and worship him...that would pretty much end it all for everyone if that happened...

          But the reason for the temptation that is most widely accepted is to show how Jesus endured temptations like we all go through. If He never had to face any of the things we have too here on earth, how could we ever relate to Him? And second we are to learn from this how to handle our own temptations...from Adam Clark bible commentary:

          From the whole we may learn:

          First. No man, howsoever holy, is exempted from temptation: for God manifested to the flesh was tempted by the devil.

          Secondly. That the best way to foil the adversary, is by the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, Ephesians 6:17.

          Thirdly. That to be tempted even to the greatest abominations (while a person resists) is not sin: for Christ was tempted to worship the DEVIL.

          Fourthly. That there is no temptation which is from its own nature, or favouring circumstances, irresistible. God has promised to bruise even Satan under our feet.

          As I wish to speak what I think most necessary on every subject, when I first meet it, and once for all, I would observe, first, That the fear of being tempted may become a most dangerous snare.

          Secondly, That when God permits a temptation or trial to come he will give grace to bear or overcome it.

          Thirdly, That our spiritual interests shall be always advanced, in proportion to our trials and faithful resistance.

          Fourthly, That a more than ordinary measure of Divine consolation shall be the consequence of every victory.



          Now on to Peter and what he did:

          Matthew 16:22-24

          22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
          23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”


          http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bc...mt&chapter=016
          Verse 22
          And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall never be unto thee.

          Peter's intention in this case was commendable; nevertheless, his ignorance made him a tool of the devil, whose double purpose regarding Christ was either to cause the Master to commit sin, or to make his death such a horrible and detestable thing that Christ would reject it (see under 26:53); thus, by one means or the other, Satan would thwart God's purpose of redemption for men.

          Peter's rejection of any thought of the death of the beloved Saviour was perfectly in line with Satan's purpose. Note too that in this case Peter assumed a new role, that of an instructor of his Lord. At that point, he appeared no longer as a disciple but as one to rebuke and contradict what Christ had just said. How easily do men slip into unbecoming postures! Nor did Peter easily shake that temptation to get out of line; he did it again and again. We shall note another case in the next chapter; and, in the book of Acts, one finds the words, "Not so, Lord!" attributed to Peter (Acts 10:14).


          Now on to satan entering Judas:

          Luke 22:2-4

          2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people.
          3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them.


          http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/vi...lu&chapter=022
          Verse 3. Then entered Satan into Judas
          The devil filled the heart of Judas with avarice; and that infamous passion led him to commit the crime here specified. This at once accounts for the whole of this most unprincipled and unnatural transaction. None but a devil, or he who is possessed by one, could have been guilty of it:-let the living lay this to heart. A minister of the Gospel, who is a lover of money, is constantly betraying the interests of Christ. He cannot serve two masters; and while his heart is possessed with the love of pelf, the love of God and zeal for perishing souls cannot dwell in him. What Satan could not do by the envy and malice of the high priests and Pharisees, he effects by Judas, a false and fallen minister of the Gospel of God. None are so dangerous to the interests of Christianity as persons of this stamp.


          This is an excellent question and one I haven't studied....right now the only thing I can think of is that satan changed tactics when he saw he could not stop Jesus from dying on the cross. I have heard too, (though I don't know if there is proof of this in scriptures) that Judas really wanted Jesus to physically reign on earth and bring His kingdom to earth by fighting against the Roman's who were so terribly oppressing the Jews. He wanted this all to be a physical thing, not a spiritual thing and was hoping that by forcing Jesus' hand, Jesus would start physically fighting back...that when it came down too it, He wouldn't allow Himself to be killed...Judas was like most Jews in this..in expecting a Messiah that would 'save' them from their enemies...physically. Not save them from sin...

          But I haven't done a study on that idea in regards to Judas so I don't know if that is true. Oh and also...we know satan tried to have Jesus killed as a baby too. He tries one thing, it doesn't work, tries something else, it doesn't work tries something else...that is usually what we see in any real war..the tactics change when there is no success...and this was a war going on..a spiritual war...very intense indeed.

          Hopefully someone else can answer this better then I.

          God bless
          "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

          Comment


          • #6
            who am i speaking to?

            im sorry. is moonglow and walstib the same person here. ever since i got here i've been lost. please forgive my computer illiteracy and bear with me. i guess i'll learn as i go. brant

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by brant View Post
              im sorry. is moonglow and walstib the same person here. ever since i got here i've been lost. please forgive my computer illiteracy and bear with me. i guess i'll learn as i go. brant
              No, those are two different people. It is not allowed to have two different names for one person. You will get answers from many people.

              Take your time, there is a lot to learn. Hmm, that's true about the website, and also about being a Christian!
              Blessings,

              Road Warrior


              Proverbs 4:23
              23 Guard your heart above all else,
              for it determines the course of your life.

              Comment


              • #8
                It is all good brant,

                There are some things I am still trying to figure out. Try some stuff out in the test post section if you want.

                And thanks for letting me know what scriptures you meant.

                Joe

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by brant View Post
                  if satan earlier in the scriptures tries to keep Jesus from the cross, why does he later enter judas to betray Him
                  I don't know that Satan "tried to keep Jesus from the cross". I think perhaps Satan did not know that the cross was going to be his own defeat.

                  What Satan did try to do, was to keep Jesus from growing up. Herod sent men to Bethlehem to kill all the babies under 2 years of age, because the Magi had come to worship the new king.
                  Blessings,

                  Road Warrior


                  Proverbs 4:23
                  23 Guard your heart above all else,
                  for it determines the course of your life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Brant,

                    To me the enemy is not stupid. The way I see it, just with my own limited logic. If he really knew who Jesus was and his purpose he would have know all efforts to stop him would fail, so why even try? I know without doubt I can't fly, I don't go jumping off cliffs.

                    Therefore the full truth is hidden from him and God let him do these things to show us things like moonglow said and fufill prophecy.

                    Joe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      crucifixion

                      no satan was not stupid. he knew who Jesus was. he knew the scriptures. im pretty sure satan knows the scriptures better than we do. he knew the prophecies. i think satan tries so hard because he's really (can i say pissed off) and he wants to drag as many down with him as he possibly can. the scriptures tell us in matt.24:24 "for false christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." nasb. i was wondering, if we are in agreement that satan did try to stop Him, especially since we know he even tried to kill Him as a baby (which seems to verify he knew His purpose on this earth) why does satan seem to help Jesus in his mission of salvation for mankind by helping the prophecies to be fulfilled. like we established, he was not stupid. so then what was his motive. we see him tempting Jesus by saying "if you are the Son of God." we have verified that satan did in fact know who Jesus was so this statement is challenging Him as we see also in the end when Jesus is on the cross in matt.27:39,40 "and those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads and saying, You who destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross." i dont know. it just seems to me all satan is doing is trying to be as annoying as he possibly can. but i dont think im right on that. sorry if im dragging this out. i just want a better understanding of the scriptures to better understand my Lord and Savior by getting a better understanding of the adversary. thanx much guys. God bless you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You make some great points Brant, especially the one about dragging others down with him. I have been wrong before and will be again I am sure, could be now as well.

                        I will give it some more thought but will say God is in control, and praise to Him for that.

                        Peace,

                        Joe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In a sense, satan did cause Jesus' death. Satan tempted Adam and Eve bringing sin unto everyone of us...the only atonement that God would accept was the BLOOD OF JESUS...so, Jesus died on the cross!! Hmmmm
                          John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.


                          My testimony: http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=137007

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by brant View Post
                            no satan was not stupid. he knew who Jesus was. he knew the scriptures. im pretty sure satan knows the scriptures better than we do. he knew the prophecies.

                            i think satan tries so hard because he's really (angry) and he wants to drag as many down with him as he possibly can. the scriptures tell us in matt.24:24 "for false christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." nasb.

                            i was wondering, if we are in agreement that satan did try to stop Him, especially since we know he even tried to kill Him as a baby (which seems to verify he knew His purpose on this earth) why does satan seem to help Jesus in his mission of salvation for mankind by helping the prophecies to be fulfilled.

                            like we established, he was not stupid. so then what was his motive. we see him tempting Jesus by saying "if you are the Son of God." we have verified that satan did in fact know who Jesus was so this statement is challenging Him as we see also in the end when Jesus is on the cross in matt.27:39,40 "and those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads and saying, You who destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross."

                            i dont know. it just seems to me all satan is doing is trying to be as annoying as he possibly can. but i dont think im right on that. sorry if im dragging this out. i just want a better understanding of the scriptures to better understand my Lord and Savior by getting a better understanding of the adversary. thanx much guys. God bless you.
                            Jn 10:17-18
                            17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."
                            NKJV

                            Brant, I broke up your post into paragraphs to make it easier to read.

                            Here is the motive of Satan:

                            1 Pe 5:8-9
                            8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
                            NKJV

                            Jn 10:10
                            10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
                            NKJV

                            Lk 22:31-32
                            31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.
                            NKJV

                            Zec 3:1-2
                            3 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him.
                            NKJV

                            Rv 12:10-11
                            10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
                            NKJV
                            Blessings,

                            Road Warrior


                            Proverbs 4:23
                            23 Guard your heart above all else,
                            for it determines the course of your life.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              brant: why does satan seem to help Jesus in his mission of salvation for mankind by helping the prophecies to be fulfilled.
                              I have heard some excellent sermons on this actually. People seem to have this idea satan is as powerful as God is...that is he the equal opposite of God or Jesus...he isn't...he is a created being first of all and cannot be everywhere at once...or know all things unlike God....he is limited in what he can do. Anyway on the sermons I heard, the Lord will allow him off his leash at times (so to speak since satan really doesn't have free run of things) when it serves God's purpose. Satan thinks he is working against God but actually playing right into His plans!

                              Image a chess game..the smarter player will make certain moves just to get the other one to move a certain way...on purpose. The other person isn't aware of this though and thinks he sees an opening...a chance of winning...but he doesn't play out the moves far enough in his head to see where it will all lead too first. That is why they sit there so long...thinking out each move before they actually do move a piece. You have to project way ahead, and think of every possible move the other will make...if you miss a possible move by them, or don't project far enough, you lose. Satan has already lost, he just doesn't know it yet...while he is still a player in action...all the moves just haven't been done yet. Meanwhile God just keeps moving His pieces and satan moves right into the trap....

                              So it can appear he is helping with God's plan...he doesn't see it that way though...arrogance and pride prevent him from seeing it.

                              Gee I just made a really good analogy for a change...

                              And you know what..taking that further then just the cross...basically this is still going on....satan is still moving his pieces around unaware that he has lost the chess game...until the final piece is in place... interesting...

                              God bless
                              "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                              Comment

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