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  • Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

    Is the term "elect" in Matt the same people that are described in Daniel? Are these the Jews who come to Christ during the tribulation?


    Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Thank you
    " I am here to learn and I am not a teacher of the word. While I may challenge beliefs and ask pointed questions it is for me to understand completely your point of view so that I may challenge my own point of view in my search for truth"

  • #2
    Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

    Originally posted by clormond View Post
    Is the term "elect" in Matt the same people that are described in Daniel? Are these the Jews who come to Christ during the tribulation?


    Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Thank you
    It is a common misconception that the Jews will eventually turn to Christ in FAITH. But scripture says that the Jews will turn to Christ when they SEE Him (Matt.26:64; Mk.13:26, 14:62; Lk.21:27; Rev.1:7). It is FAITH that is necessary for rebirth and eternal life, and this the Jews cannot have because they reject Him until they see Him. The condition for God to restore combined Israel to their Land and to initiate the New Covenant with combined Israel (it has already been ratified in Christ's blood), is that a REMNANT of Israelites turn wholeheartedly back to the Law. Deuteronomy 28 outlines all the blessings and curses attached to the Law. Then, Deuteronomy 30:1-10 starts off with THE ASSUMPTION that Israel will suffer ALL the curses of the Law, ending with dispersion. This is a matter of history before our eyes. Verse 1 says;

    "And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,"

    Then from verse 2 the CONDITION for a restoration of the 12 Tribes (for they were they were assembled before Moses that day) is;

    2 "And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
    3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
    4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
    5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
    6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
    7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
    8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
    9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
    10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul."


    So, while you are correct that Matthew 24:31 is the gathering of ALL Jews in verse 4 above, they are gathered because a REMNANT RETURNED TO LAW, not Christ.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

      Is the term "elect" in Matt the same people that are described in Daniel? Are these the Jews who come to Christ during the tribulation?


      Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

      Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

      Thank you
      The term 'elect' just means all true believers, from all backgrounds, Jews and Gentiles. That is because God has elected anyone who is saved to salvation.

      The verse about Michael is saying that Jesus will stand up for all true believers, again of all backgrounds, Jews and Gentiles. Daniel's people are the true believers, not just cultural Jews. The time of trouble is the time of great tribulation. Michael means "who is like God" and the reason Michael (Jesus) is the one who contends with Satan in Revelation is because Jesus is the one who takes on Satan in terms of salvation. Nobody else could. He overcomes Satan by his own blood, the blood of the Lamb, meaning he is the sinless Lamb who is qualified to take on Satan.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

        How could this mean "all true believers, from all backgrounds, Jews and Gentiles" when he in Matt 23 is speaking about the Jews?


        Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

        The disciples asked him right after this:

        Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

        Then we have an explanation, Is "all true believers, from all backgrounds, Jews and Gentiles" going to see this? why is it that he states that pray it not be on the Sabbath? It is my understanding that only the Jews Had not accepted Christ as the Messiah and that is why the Sabbath keeping would be a problem with their flight due to the restrictions of the Sabbath. Why not in the winter, Because winter is the rainy season and the travel would be difficult due to the terrain?

        Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

        In this context of the "elect", it seems to be used regarding the nation, Daniel identifies this time as a “decreed for your people and your holy city,” indicating that Israel, not the church or mankind in general, will be the center of the Tribulation suffering. Not that the whole world will not be affected.
        " I am here to learn and I am not a teacher of the word. While I may challenge beliefs and ask pointed questions it is for me to understand completely your point of view so that I may challenge my own point of view in my search for truth"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

          The elect from all over the world are the faithful in Christ that will include Jews who come to Christ after the GT.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

            Originally posted by clormond View Post
            How could this mean "all true believers, from all backgrounds, Jews and Gentiles" when he in Matt 23 is speaking about the Jews?


            Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
            Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

            Just because Jesus is speaking specifically about the Jews in Jerusalem in Matt 23:37, does not mean his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (the whole world) in Matt 24:31 represents His elect as only Jews from Jerusalem.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

              Originally posted by luigi View Post
              Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

              Just because Jesus is speaking specifically about the Jews in Jerusalem in Matt 23:37, does not mean his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (the whole world) in Matt 24:31 represents His elect as only Jews from Jerusalem.
              Then who is fleeing Judea when the AOD takes place? my post number four was not just one scripture, it was a complete thought with other supporting scriptures t make my point of thought

              Should we not use the word "elect" in context? Daniel identifies this time as a “decreed for your people and your holy city,” indicating that Israel, not the church or mankind in general, will be the center of the Tribulation suffering. The use of the Sabbath, the Holy place, the Messiah, the nation that was what his view was, so would that not mean that the "elect definition be the same with the context in just a few verses later?

              Where do you see the meaning of the "elect" changing definition in just a few verses without some transition?

              Zach 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD. was he referencing all belivers here?
              Last edited by clormond; Jul 1st 2015, 02:02 PM. Reason: additional thought
              " I am here to learn and I am not a teacher of the word. While I may challenge beliefs and ask pointed questions it is for me to understand completely your point of view so that I may challenge my own point of view in my search for truth"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                Originally posted by clormond View Post
                Is the term "elect" in Matt the same people that are described in Daniel? Are these the Jews who come to Christ during the tribulation?


                Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

                Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

                Thank you
                Now that's insightful!

                The Jews are, because of their background in the OT, most likely to be unshakable in their faith and in their actions.

                IMO, they are the ones most likely to be called "great" in Heaven:

                MT 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
                MT 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
                MT 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
                MT 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
                JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
                JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                  Dan, I am trying to get my understanding of who are the "elect" because in my study it is a pivotal point to me in defining the rapture and its timing. Thank you
                  " I am here to learn and I am not a teacher of the word. While I may challenge beliefs and ask pointed questions it is for me to understand completely your point of view so that I may challenge my own point of view in my search for truth"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                    Originally posted by clormond View Post
                    Dan, I am trying to get my understanding of who are the "elect" because in my study it is a pivotal point to me in defining the rapture and its timing. Thank you
                    You do well to sort this out. As you can see above, much confusion results because Bible students do not use "the Elect" correctly. But the correct understanding is relatively easy to get. Dial in "Elect" in your Bible search (conversely use a Strong's Concordance if you have one) and you come up with the fact that "the Elect" is dependent on context. And Matthew 24:1-31 is ALL about Jews, Sabbaths, Laws, Judea and Jerusalem. Added to this, the Abomination of Desolation does not apply to ALL people of the earth. It only applies to Daniel's People. In Daniel 9, up until verse 20, Daniel prays and confesses those in Captivity to be "THY (God's) people". But when God answers Daniel He refuses that the Jews are His people. His answer from verse 24 is always "THY (Daniel's) people". The reason for this is that God had disowned His people the Jews for their whoredoms. In Hosea 1:9 ... "Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God." In verse 10, only when Israel is restored and united will they again be His people.

                    Here are examples of the context telling who the elect are;
                    Jesus in Isaiah 42:1. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles."
                    Jesus in 1st Peter 2:6. "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded."

                    Israel in Isaiah 45:4. "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."
                    Israel in Matthew 24:24. "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
                    Israel in Matthew 24:31. "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
                    Israel in Mark 13:27. "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." Only Israel was dispersed to the four winds (Zech.2:6 etc.)

                    Christians in Romans 8:33. "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth."
                    Christians in Colossians 3:12. "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;"

                    Angels in 1st Timothy 5:21. "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                      Originally posted by clormond View Post
                      Then who is fleeing Judea when the AOD takes place? my post number four was not just one scripture, it was a complete thought with other supporting scriptures t make my point of thought.
                      Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
                      16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


                      While Matthew 24:16 at the onset of the GT does indeed specifically refer to those who are in Judea, that when they see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, that they should then head for the mountains (Matt 24:15); this does not, however, include Gods elect from the four winds (the whole earth) being gathered at the conclusion of the GT (Matt 24:33).

                      Originally posted by clormond View Post
                      Should we not use the word "elect" in context? Daniel identifies this time as a “decreed for your people and your holy city,” indicating that Israel, not the church or mankind in general, will be the center of the Tribulation suffering.
                      We should most certainly use the word "elect" in context. The scripture you are referring to is Daniel 9:24, where: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

                      While Daniel 9:24 refers to Daniels people (the faithful in Christ) and the holy city (Jerusalem); I do not see how you equate the few Jews who remain in Jerusalem and come to faith in Christ to represent Gods elect who are gathered from the four winds of heaven (the whole world) at the conclusion of the GT in Matthew 24:33!

                      Another scripture in line with Daniel 9:24, where the events of the seventieth week take place is:Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

                      As this scripture is in regards to the conclusion of the time, times and dividing of times/ a half, (Daniel 7:25 & 12:7), in which the saints are worn out by the little horn (the antichrist) during the GT; then Daniels people/the saints represent the faithful in Christ throughout the world, and not just Jerusalem.
                      The saints are Gods elect, whom God will have His angels gather from the four winds (the whole earth).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                        Originally posted by luigi View Post
                        Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
                        16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


                        While Matthew 24:16 at the onset of the GT does indeed specifically refer to those who are in Judea, that when they see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, that they should then head for the mountains (Matt 24:15); this does not, however, include Gods elect from the four winds (the whole earth) being gathered at the conclusion of the GT (Matt 24:33).

                        We should most certainly use the word "elect" in context. The scripture you are referring to is Daniel 9:24, where: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

                        While Daniel 9:24 refers to Daniels people (the faithful in Christ) and the holy city (Jerusalem); I do not see how you equate the few Jews who remain in Jerusalem and come to faith in Christ to represent Gods elect who are gathered from the four winds of heaven (the whole world) at the conclusion of the GT in Matthew 24:33!

                        Another scripture in line with Daniel 9:24, where the events of the seventieth week take place is:Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

                        As this scripture is in regards to the conclusion of the time, times and dividing of times/ a half, (Daniel 7:25 & 12:7), in which the saints are worn out by the little horn (the antichrist) during the GT; then Daniels people/the saints represent the faithful in Christ throughout the world, and not just Jerusalem.
                        The saints are Gods elect, whom God will have His angels gather from the four winds (the whole earth).
                        I am sorry but I feel as though I answered all your questions in post seven. I am still not seeing your answer or maybe I am just not understanding so ill be specific for me:

                        1- Daniel is speaking identifies this time as a “decreed for your people and your holy city,” indicating that Israel, not the church or mankind in general, will be the center of the Tribulation suffering. In Matt Jesus is speaking and he referances The use of the Sabbath, the Holy place, the Messiah, the nation that was what his view was, so would that not mean that the "elect definition be the same with the context in just a few verses later?
                        2- You quoted Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. You ref "elect" as all believers yet Zach 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD. was he referencing all belivers here?

                        Without going into a rapture or second coming event, I want to focus only on who the "elect" are because if I can define that then I surely start to figure out the rapture, second coming and all the rest end time events
                        " I am here to learn and I am not a teacher of the word. While I may challenge beliefs and ask pointed questions it is for me to understand completely your point of view so that I may challenge my own point of view in my search for truth"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                          Originally posted by clormond View Post
                          I am sorry but I feel as though I answered all your questions in post seven. I am still not seeing your answer or maybe I am just not understanding so ill be specific for me:

                          1- Daniel is speaking identifies this time as a “decreed for your people and your holy city,” indicating that Israel, not the church or mankind in general, will be the center of the Tribulation suffering. In Matt Jesus is speaking and he referances The use of the Sabbath, the Holy place, the Messiah, the nation that was what his view was, so would that not mean that the "elect definition be the same with the context in just a few verses later?
                          2- You quoted Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. You ref "elect" as all believers yet Zach 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD. was he referencing all belivers here?

                          Without going into a rapture or second coming event, I want to focus only on who the "elect" are because if I can define that then I surely start to figure out the rapture, second coming and all the rest end time events
                          I am focusing on who the elect in Matt 24:33 represent.
                          I do this first by understanding there are correlations in scriptures.
                          Daniel 9:24 KJV "...determined for your people and upon thy holy city...", in which the seventieth week constitutes the GT, correlates with the worst of times in Daniel 12:1.

                          In Daniel 12:7 we see a description of a time, times, and a half at the end of which the GT concludes for the holy people.
                          Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

                          Correlating with the time, times, and an half in Dan 12:7 is the time, times, and dividing of time in Daniel 7:25 in which the little horn shall wear out the saints.
                          Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

                          If we then acknowledge these times and events are the same; would the saints of the most High then represent Gods elect?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                            Originally posted by clormond View Post
                            In this context of the "elect", it seems to be used regarding the nation, Daniel identifies this time as a “decreed for your people and your holy city,” indicating that Israel, not the church or mankind in general, will be the center of the Tribulation suffering. Not that the whole world will not be affected.
                            I agree that the Matthew 24 "elect" refer to the elect of Israel... who will be "gathered together" ('one by one' by angels sent to do that task) into one place upon the earth AFTER the tribulation period (as in Isaiah 27:12-13)... it is the same "elect" in both Matthew 24:29-31 and Matthew 24:22,24 (that is, the elect of Israel, of the tribulation period)... and I do believe this is the same "thy people" (Daniel's people) as the Daniel 12:1 passage (and "thy people" [Daniel's people; Israel] found in Daniel 9:24 also).

                            In the next chapter (starting in verse Matthew 25:31), it tells about "the Sheep" of the nations (who will enter the earthly Millennial Kingdom)... these are the saved of the Gentiles/nations who will still be living at the time of His Second Coming to the earth.



                            (neither of these are "the Church which is His body"... I have to add that just to be clear , as it is easy to read into what another is saying, without such clarification... so this is for the reader of this thread)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is the elect The Jews who come to Christ

                              Originally posted by luigi View Post
                              I am focusing on who the elect in Matt 24:33 represent.
                              I do this first by understanding there are correlations in scriptures.
                              Daniel 9:24 KJV "...determined for your people and upon thy holy city...", in which the seventieth week constitutes the GT, correlates with the worst of times in Daniel 12:1.

                              In Daniel 12:7 we see a description of a time, times, and a half at the end of which the GT concludes for the holy people.
                              Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

                              Correlating with the time, times, and an half in Dan 12:7 is the time, times, and dividing of time in Daniel 7:25 in which the little horn shall wear out the saints.
                              Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

                              If we then acknowledge these times and events are the same; would the saints of the most High then represent Gods elect?
                              In Matt Jesus is speaking and he referances The use of the Sabbath, the Holy place, the Messiah, the nation that was what his view was, so would that not mean that the "elect definition be the same with the context in just a few verses later?

                              The context usage of Matt supports the elect as a reference to Israel because of the Jewish orientation of the passage. " Such terms as the gospel of the kingdom , the holy place , the Sabbath , and the Messiah indicate that Israel as a nation is his sole view.

                              Lets just go one at a time so I don't get confused, would you agree with this, or do you think Jesus was speaking about all believers in context?

                              You quoted Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. You ref "elect" as all believers yet Zach 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD. was he referencing all belivers here?
                              " I am here to learn and I am not a teacher of the word. While I may challenge beliefs and ask pointed questions it is for me to understand completely your point of view so that I may challenge my own point of view in my search for truth"

                              Comment

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