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Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

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  • Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

    John 16:8 says
    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    The bible also calls our adversary the devil our accuser

    Rev 12:10
    And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.



    In your daily walk, how do you discern between the two and what is going on?

  • #2
    Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

    Originally posted by rom826 View Post
    John 16:8 says
    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    The bible also calls our adversary the devil our accuser

    Rev 12:10
    And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.



    In your daily walk, how do you discern between the two and what is going on?
    The accusations of the devil cause guilt and the purpose of this type of guilt is to bring a person down when the person listens to this kind of guilt. The convictions of the Holy Spirit cause what can be felt as guilt but the purpose is to bring the person up when the person listens to the conviction.
    Slug1--out

    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
      The accusations of the devil cause guilt and the purpose of this type of guilt is to bring a person down when the person listens to this kind of guilt. The convictions of the Holy Spirit cause what can be felt as guilt but the purpose is to bring the person up when the person listens to the conviction.
      Holy Spirit conviction is more like a realization than guilt, don't you think?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

        Originally posted by Willows View Post
        Holy Spirit conviction is more like a realization than guilt, don't you think?
        It will simply boil down to semantics and what terms or terminology people choose to use, based on their particular whatevers

        I like simple stupid myself.

        It works though. Ask a person what they want to do when the guilt bombards their mind and when they are honest and say, "I feel like going back to smoking a cigarette because I'm not worth anything," then I can explain how the accusations of guilt is bringing them down. They are listening to satan.

        If the question is answered, "I feel like going back home and telling my mom that I'm sorry", then I explain that they are being conviction by the Holy Spirit because the guilt they are feeling is to being them up.

        Ya see, Christians... especially many who have been in church for years and thus, they are mature... so many of them complicate it all, want to use big Christianese words, terms, whatnot. If it works... great, but in the position I'm in, where I can look at the lives of people, it's not really working as they are always "down", despite the words, "I am in victory." Words don't really mean much when there is no action behind them and this is where the problem is at. Christians have complicated it to the point they don't know how to put the words or lessons they hear, into action.

        Realization is a great word to use. As a matter of fact, when a person "realizes" they did wrong and then they begin to feel unworthy and this leads to them going out to find a cigarette. Then, was the realization that bombarded their mind from the Holy Spirit, or from satan?

        See what I mean?
        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
          It will simply boil down to semantics and what terms or terminology people choose to use, based on their particular whatevers

          I like simple stupid myself.

          It works though. Ask a person what they want to do when the guilt bombards their mind and when they are honest and say, "I feel like going back to smoking a cigarette because I'm not worth anything," then I can explain how the accusations of guilt is bringing them down. They are listening to satan.

          If the question is answered, "I feel like going back home and telling my mom that I'm sorry", then I explain that they are being conviction by the Holy Spirit because the guilt they are feeling is to being them up.

          Ya see, Christians... especially many who have been in church for years and thus, they are mature... so many of them complicate it all, want to use big Christianese words, terms, whatnot. If it works... great, but in the position I'm in, where I can look at the lives of people, it's not really working as they are always "down", despite the words, "I am in victory." Words don't really mean much when there is no action behind them and this is where the problem is at. Christians have complicated it to the point they don't know how to put the words or lessons they hear, into action.

          Realization is a great word to use. As a matter of fact, when a person "realizes" they did wrong and then they begin to feel unworthy and this leads to them going out to find a cigarette. Then, was the realization that bombarded their mind from the Holy Spirit, or from satan?

          See what I mean?
          Yes, I do. . .and I also am a fan of simple stupid.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

            Originally posted by Willows View Post
            Yes, I do. . .and I also am a fan of simple stupid.


            In many college classes I've taken, the general "understanding" is that a person must be told something 7 times before they begin to remember or they "get it".

            Well, tell it to them simple stupid and it's takes only once or twice and they get it. If they need a third time... hand them the lesson and tell them to teach it... for some reason, they begin to get it when it's first put out and the 2nd go round is only to confirm what they learned the first time.

            But I only have this problem with Christians who have been in a church for many years and are thus mature. I don't know why those newbie Christians, you know, the ones that the mature ones (mature because they've been in a church for a long time) call immature or babes... but those newbie Christians get it that 1st or on 2nd go round. Never have to ask any newbie Christian to teach a lesson because they are too busy trying to learn so they can activate the Word into their lives.

            Anyway.... realization, guilt... it's what either DOES (fruit) that is used to discern whether or not it's from the Holy Spirit, or satan.
            Slug1--out

            ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

              Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
              but in the position I'm in, where I can look at the lives of people, it's not really working as they are always "down", despite the words, "I am in victory."
              If you see brothers or sisters who are always "down" despite the words, "I am in victory" and look down upon those brothers and sisters in Christ, you might also be listening to the subtlety of the accuser. A better approach might be to believe God for the wisdom to help those brothers and sisters come to a place where they are not being overcome by the accuser and see the victory they have in Christ.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                Originally posted by rom826 View Post
                If you see brothers or sisters who are always "down" despite the words, "I am in victory" and look down upon those brothers and sisters in Christ, you might also be listening to the subtlety of the accuser. A better approach might be to believe God for the wisdom to help those brothers and sisters come to a place where they are not being overcome by the accuser and see the victory they have in Christ.
                Hmm, how the possibility that I may look down at those who are down... is surprising to me. No, speaking life and teaching (discipleship) them is where I go when you read all I've posted into context. When a Christian is down because of the accuser, they need to be lifted up. This begins with counseling and then proper teaching of the Word enables them to ID the lies of the accuser and there is no chance for his "type" of guilt to even get planted and grow in them. With prayer throughout.
                Slug1--out

                ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                  Originally posted by rom826 View Post
                  John 16:8 says
                  And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                  The bible also calls our adversary the devil our accuser

                  Rev 12:10
                  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.



                  In your daily walk, how do you discern between the two and what is going on?
                  Would you consider you are not using either text correctly?

                  John 16:8 is about the Spirit coming to believers, not to convict believers, but that "the world" would be convicted of x, y, and z, through the lives and example of believers -1Pe 2:12.

                  Rev 12:10 isn't about being condemned by Satan when you sin anymore than any other scripture. I personally find this concept a little absurd. No offense intended of course, but think about it. First, it attributes a power or ability to Satan scripture does not. That pretty much nips it in the bud. If that's not enough, ask yourself why Satan would do the work of conscience/spirit/soul/image of God/God, and why he would be needed, since God has made other means of accomplishing this? IOW, where in scripture is there a feeling of condemnation and a separate feeling of conviction? I don't find it, and submit they are one and the same. Rev 12:10 says he was constantly against us but is now taken out of the way. It's never used in the sense many apply.

                  Whether man is born again or not, there's no need to discern between the two in your daily walk. There is not two (condemnation/conviction) and even the wicked sinner is convicted -Joh 8:9.

                  The Hebrew word for Satan.
                  śâṭân

                  Zec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

                  Accuse?
                  śâṭan

                  He is our adversary.
                  Barnes' Notes
                  "The description of Satan as an accuser accords with the opinion of the ancient Hebrews in regard to his character. Thus he is represented in Job 1:9-11; Job 2:4-5; Zechariah 3:1-2; 1 Chronicles 21:1."

                  There's really nothing in scripture to suggest Satan causes us to feel condemned, whether sinner or saved. Both have other means for this, either the old creature or the new creature.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                    Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                    Would you consider you are not using either text correctly?

                    John 16:8 is about the Spirit coming to believers, not to convict believers, but that "the world" would be convicted of x, y, and z, through the lives and example of believers -1Pe 2:12.

                    Rev 12:10 isn't about being condemned by Satan when you sin anymore than any other scripture. I personally find this concept a little absurd. No offense intended of course, but think about it. First, it attributes a power or ability to Satan scripture does not. That pretty much nips it in the bud. If that's not enough, ask yourself why Satan would do the work of conscience/spirit/soul/image of God/God, and why he would be needed, since God has made other means of accomplishing this? IOW, where in scripture is there a feeling of condemnation and a separate feeling of conviction? I don't find it, and submit they are one and the same. Rev 12:10 says he was constantly against us but is now taken out of the way. It's never used in the sense many apply.

                    Whether man is born again or not, there's no need to discern between the two in your daily walk. There is not two (condemnation/conviction) and even the wicked sinner is convicted -Joh 8:9.

                    The Hebrew word for Satan.
                    śâṭân

                    Zec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

                    Accuse?
                    śâṭan

                    He is our adversary.
                    Barnes' Notes
                    "The description of Satan as an accuser accords with the opinion of the ancient Hebrews in regard to his character. Thus he is represented in Job 1:9-11; Job 2:4-5; Zechariah 3:1-2; 1 Chronicles 21:1."

                    There's really nothing in scripture to suggest Satan causes us to feel condemned, whether sinner or saved. Both have other means for this, either the old creature or the new creature.
                    To be honest your post makes no sense at all to me. If you are suggesting that Satan is no longer an adversary of the believer, I strongly disagree. Also if you are suggesting that after being born again, a believer is no longer in need of being reproved, I strongly disagree. Also if you are suggesting that condemnation and reproof is the same thing I strongly disagree. I did read your post a couple of times and still couldn't figure out what you are trying to say. Please clarify.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                      Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
                      Hmm, how the possibility that I may look down at those who are down... is surprising to me. No, speaking life and teaching (discipleship) them is where I go when you read all I've posted into context. When a Christian is down because of the accuser, they need to be lifted up. This begins with counseling and then proper teaching of the Word enables them to ID the lies of the accuser and there is no chance for his "type" of guilt to even get planted and grow in them. With prayer throughout.
                      I agree. Any Christian who is down because of the accuser needs to be lifted up with prayer and counseling.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                        2 Corinthians 7:10 - "For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death."

                        Holy Spirit conviction, while it may sting, leads to hope, repentance, and joy.

                        Accusations from the devil leads to nothing but guilt, anger, depression, and doubt.
                        sigpic
                        ".....it's your nickel"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                          rom826, lets start simple. Where are believers corrected, convicted, condemned in John 16:8 and Rev 12:10?
                          Put very simply, in one it's the world (indirectly), and in the other the accuser is cast down. Ball is in your court.


                          Originally posted by rom826 View Post
                          If you are suggesting that Satan is no longer an adversary of the believer, I strongly disagree.
                          Fine, but based on what? (continue reading)
                          Just what do you think "adversary" means and Rev 12 is about? Is it not about being delivered from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God? That salvation has come through Christ and we can live in victory, Satan no longer our adversary? Our kingdom is stronger isn't it? What does it mean to be our adversary? Is he still, even after the cross?

                          ""Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down"

                          You do realize the above took place when Christ was here don't you?

                          What do you think Jesus meant when He told the disciples He saw Satan fall like lightening when the disciples cast out demons? Did He mean Satan still retained his power over men?

                          Has Satan been cast down or not? Who has authority over who? Does he still rule over you? Can he condemn you?

                          Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
                          Rom 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
                          Rom 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
                          Rom 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

                          If I have an adversary, does that mean I have someone whispering in my ear? No.
                          Does adversary mean whisperer of condemnation?


                          Originally posted by rom826 View Post
                          Also if you are suggesting that after being born again, a believer is no longer in need of being reproved, I strongly disagree.
                          Why would you think that? I said.....
                          "the work of conscience/spirit/soul/image of God/God"
                          "God has made other means of accomplishing this (guilt)....(than Satan)....either the old creature (sinner) or the new creature (saved)."


                          Originally posted by rom826 View Post
                          Also if you are suggesting that condemnation and reproof is the same thing I strongly disagree.
                          Of course those two are not the same. The word for reprove is elegchō which is also translated rebuke, convince, convicted-Joh 8:9 (as I pointed out for un-born-again pharisees --"being convicted by their own conscience"), and fault. Condemnation (judgment in the negative) follows being convicted if the judge so chooses. Can Satan do that to you? Is he your judge?

                          There's a lot of personal opinion in here and no scripture to back any of it up. I asked, "where in scripture is there a feeling of condemnation (from Satan) and a separate feeling of conviction (from the Spirit)?" and nothing has been produced, because it doesn't exist. Just what do you think condemn means anyway? 1Jn 3:20-21 says we can condemn ourselves with our own heart, but scripture never attributes this ability to Satan for a believer. The guilty are convicted, period, and may be condemned by either themselves or the judge. If you are a sinner that could be Satan because you are in his kingdom. If you are saved that would be Christ because you are in His kingdom. That's the point of Rev 12:10. The point is not that Satan is on the believers shoulder making you "feel" condemned.

                          Bottom line is, if you "feel" condemned you don't know the faith. Satan is not on your shoulder whispering condemnation in your ear, your own heart is condemning you. You need to be built up in the faith and learn who you are in Christ, then you'll have hope. The difference is the knowledge of Christ and the scriptures. The idea that when a believer sins, either Satan is condemning them or the Spirit is convicting them is absurd. The accuser was cast down. Does the Spirit take a backseat to Satan? Really? "Well, the Spirit can't be telling the individual to rely on a crutch instead of Christ." Well why do you think Satan is doing this? Is the individual not capable of relying on a crutch instead of Christ on their own?

                          The problem with what's being promoted here is that it takes the believer out of the equation. Repentance is decided by God not the individual. If the Spirit takes a backseat to Satan then you can't have godly sorrow and, too bad for you, you can't repent, sorry charlie. If the Spirit doesn't take a backseat, you're in luck, you can repent. C'mon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                            Satan, no longer our adversary?!

                            Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8).
                            Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Satan accussing vs the Holy Spirit convicting

                              Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                              He is our adversary.
                              .


                              1Ti 5:14 So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and give the adversary no occasion for slander.
                              1Ti 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan.

                              Where is he whispering in your ear? Making you feel condemned?

                              Comment

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