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Was Jesus born with Sinful nature or without sinful nature, and does it matter?

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  • Was Jesus born with Sinful nature or without sinful nature, and does it matter?

    Hello,

    Some say that in order for Jesus to be able to save humanity, He had to be born with a sinful nature.

    I don't understand how this could be. It is hard to fathom how Jesus could be born with a sinful nature and not sin, even as a child!

    If Jesus was born with Adams original nature (without the propensity to sin), before the fall, then His being able to live in human flesh and not sin seems so much more plausible.

    So, does it reallly matter either way? The end result is that I believe, whatever the mechanism, Jesus lived a sinless life and through His life, death, and resurrection He has prepared a way for me and you to spend eternity with Him.

  • #2
    Jesus was not born with a sinful nature.

    No human is born with a sinful nature.

    Hebrews 2:14-18
    Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
    You were made to think. It will do you good to think; to develop your powers by study. God designed that religion should require thought, intense thought, and should thoroughly develop our powers of thought.

    Charles G Finney



    http://holyrokker.blogspot.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect,

      Here's one respect....through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

      So, Christ was made like his brothers in every respect. His brothers were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man (Adam). Therefore, Christ was made a sinner through the disobedience of the one man also, or Hebrews lies in saying He was made like His brothers in EVERY respect. Also, notice they did not choose to be, but were made to be.

      So, not only did Christ have a sin nature, but Christ was a sinner, made perfect by God, by being God. Not that Christ was a sinner in that he sinned, but Christ having been come in the flesh was considered a sinner before the Father as a man, just by being man.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by twspt View Post
        Hello,

        Some say that in order for Jesus to be able to save humanity, He had to be born with a sinful nature.

        I don't understand how this could be. It is hard to fathom how Jesus could be born with a sinful nature and not sin, even as a child!

        If Jesus was born with Adams original nature (without the propensity to sin), before the fall, then His being able to live in human flesh and not sin seems so much more plausible.

        So, does it reallly matter either way? The end result is that I believe, whatever the mechanism, Jesus lived a sinless life and through His life, death, and resurrection He has prepared a way for me and you to spend eternity with Him.


        Admittingly I haven't really done any major research on this, but I believe that some Bible scholars have concluded that sin is passed on thru the male, via procreation.

        When you stop to think about it, this seems somewhat logical. Every human to ever be born was born in this manner except one. I believe we all know whom that exception was. Christ was born of a woman, but wasn't procreated via a male.

        So, if these Bible scholars are correct, neither was the first Adam nor the 2nd Adam born with any sin nature, since neither of these came thru both a man and a woman.

        When you really think about it, Christ came thru the woman He created on day six. Not only did He come thru this woman, He also created a new woman from this woman, the church. It pretty much seems to me, the whole idea was to replace the old woman with the new woman, so to speak.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by holyrokker View Post
          Jesus was not born with a sinful nature.

          No human is born with a sinful nature.

          Hebrews 2:14-18
          I very much disagree with you after Adam every human was born with sinful nature, every human was born with fallen body.
          Why on earth you would even say such a thing even if you wre right which your not you cannot compared a human with Jesus. Yes Jesus was human and Jesus was also God no human has those qualities except Jesus.
          It would be good for you to do some research into orginal sin.
          God Bless
          Randy
          And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
          For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by twspt View Post
            Hello,

            Some say that in order for Jesus to be able to save humanity, He had to be born with a sinful nature.

            I don't understand how this could be. It is hard to fathom how Jesus could be born with a sinful nature and not sin, even as a child!

            If Jesus was born with Adams original nature (without the propensity to sin), before the fall, then His being able to live in human flesh and not sin seems so much more plausible.

            So, does it reallly matter either way? The end result is that I believe, whatever the mechanism, Jesus lived a sinless life and through His life, death, and resurrection He has prepared a way for me and you to spend eternity with Him.



            I think what we should be asking ourselves, not that whether Jesus was born with a sin nature, but whether Jesus possessed the ability to sin or not. I would say that Jesus did possess the ability to sin, yet He chose not to. In the same way, the first Adam also possessed the abilty to sin, and he chose to.

            Don't we learn from the first Adam what sin really is? Isn't sin disobedience to God's will? Didn't Christ stay obedient to the Father's will, even unto death? Could this be the reason Christ didn't sin, because He chose to be obedient to the Father's will? Could this be the reason the first Adam sinned, because he chose not to stay obedient to the Lord God's will?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Yukerboy View Post
              Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect,

              Here's one respect....through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

              So, Christ was made like his brothers in every respect. His brothers were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man (Adam). Therefore, Christ was made a sinner through the disobedience of the one man also, or Hebrews lies in saying He was made like His brothers in EVERY respect. Also, notice they did not choose to be, but were made to be.

              So, not only did Christ have a sin nature, but Christ was a sinner, made perfect by God, by being God. Not that Christ was a sinner in that he sinned, but Christ having been come in the flesh was considered a sinner before the Father as a man, just by being man.
              No your incorrect according to th Bible sin was always passed down through the father since Jesus was a virgin birth he had no sin.
              God Bless
              Randy
              And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
              For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

              Comment


              • #8
                So, not only did Christ have a sin nature, but Christ was a sinner, made perfect by God, by being God. Not that Christ was a sinner in that he sinned, but Christ having been come in the flesh was considered a sinner before the Father as a man, just by being man.

                -------------------------------------------------------------------
                I STRONGLY disagree with this statement.....

                If Christ had a sin nature and was a sinner.. then the Atoning Work on that bloody tree is a 'farse'... Christ then died a sinner.. the unjust for the unjust... but Scripture delcares.. He died on that bloody tree..

                the JUST for the unjust.....

                If He was a sinner and had a sin nature then.. My faith is in vain... and He is not risen from the dead.. as He arose from the dead thru the Spirit of Holiness...

                Scripture also declares that He 'knew' NO SIN.. and that He was without SPOT OR BLEMISH... the Lamb Slain before the foundation of the world....

                Why do you think God sent Him directly from Heaven.. and into a virgin? The Incarnation.. done by the Holy Ghost.. who is God.. who does not sin..

                Jesus declared right before He was to be crucified that the prince of this world was about to come to Him.. and that He had 'nothing' in Him or On Him... which means Jesus was not tainted by 'sin'.. neither was He a sinner... nor did He 'know' any sin... Pure and Perfect...

                The Pharisees were always trying to catch Him.. and He responded..

                Which one of you can convince Me of any sin or doing any sin... they couldnt'.. cause He 'didn't'!!!

                Jesus the Christ was Pure.. He was God in the flesh... God does not sin.. He can't... He is Holy.. He has always been... and even thru the Incarnation.. God puttin on flesh in the Person of Jesus the Christ.. God did not have a 'sin nature' nor did He sin...

                If He did .. then the atoning work is of no value... and He is not risen from the dead...

                which I know personally and many others.. that is not TRUE!
                Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                ------------------------------------------------
                Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                ------------------------------------------------
                The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                Jeremiah 31:3

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
                  So, not only did Christ have a sin nature, but Christ was a sinner, made perfect by God, by being God. Not that Christ was a sinner in that he sinned, but Christ having been come in the flesh was considered a sinner before the Father as a man, just by being man.

                  -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  I STRONGLY disagree with this statement.....

                  If Christ had a sin nature and was a sinner.. then the Atoning Work on that bloody tree is a 'farse'... Christ then died a sinner.. the unjust for the unjust... but Scripture delcares.. He died on that bloody tree..

                  the JUST for the unjust.....

                  If He was a sinner and had a sin nature then.. My faith is in vain... and He is not risen from the dead.. as He arose from the dead thru the Spirit of Holiness...

                  Scripture also declares that He 'knew' NO SIN.. and that He was without SPOT OR BLEMISH... the Lamb Slain before the foundation of the world....

                  Why do you think God sent Him directly from Heaven.. and into a virgin? The Incarnation.. done by the Holy Ghost.. who is God.. who does not sin..

                  Jesus declared right before He was to be crucified that the prince of this world was about to come to Him.. and that He had 'nothing' in Him or On Him... which means Jesus was not tainted by 'sin'.. neither was He a sinner... nor did He 'know' any sin... Pure and Perfect...

                  The Pharisees were always trying to catch Him.. and He responded..

                  Which one of you can convince Me of any sin or doing any sin... they couldnt'.. cause He 'didn't'!!!

                  Jesus the Christ was Pure.. He was God in the flesh... God does not sin.. He can't... He is Holy.. He has always been... and even thru the Incarnation.. God puttin on flesh in the Person of Jesus the Christ.. God did not have a 'sin nature' nor did He sin...

                  If He did .. then the atoning work is of no value... and He is not risen from the dead...

                  which I know personally and many others.. that is not TRUE!
                  Exactly I am so surpised with this thread it goes against all Christiany.
                  Begining with no orginal sin passed on from Adam to Jesus having a sin nature. Sounds more like a cult than a christian forum on this issue.
                  God Bless
                  Randy
                  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
                  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There is so much bad theology in this thread...

                    Hebrews 2 sets up the context, that when it coms to human physicality, emotions, psychology, etc, Jesus was made just like we are. However, Corinthians makes it even clearer that the difference between the human nature of Jesus and our nature is that He was made into the perfect image of God - this would me that He lacked the sin nature that we humans do possess.

                    Hebrews, however, is just saying that in human essence, Jesus became the same. He did not become the same with the sinful by-products of humanity, mainly because our sin nature is contrary to being in the image of God.

                    Original sin (human desire to sin) is inherent within all humans, but was no inherent within Christ because He was a morally perfect human, meaning this foreign nature was removed. If anything, this would make Christ MORE human than even we are human, in that He was complete and took on a form that humans were always intended to have.

                    (as a side note, when I refer to Christ 'being made perfect,' I am not teaching the heresy that Christ was created. He existed in the Trinity for eternity's past, but His flesh did come into existence at the incarnation - this is what I mean by "create")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
                      There is so much bad theology in this thread...

                      Hebrews 2 sets up the context, that when it coms to human physicality, emotions, psychology, etc, Jesus was made just like we are. However, Corinthians makes it even clearer that the difference between the human nature of Jesus and our nature is that He was made into the perfect image of God - this would me that He lacked the sin nature that we humans do possess.

                      Hebrews, however, is just saying that in human essence, Jesus became the same. He did not become the same with the sinful by-products of humanity, mainly because our sin nature is contrary to being in the image of God.

                      Original sin (human desire to sin) is inherent within all humans, but was no inherent within Christ because He was a morally perfect human, meaning this foreign nature was removed. If anything, this would make Christ MORE human than even we are human, in that He was complete and took on a form that humans were always intended to have.

                      (as a side note, when I refer to Christ 'being made perfect,' I am not teaching the heresy that Christ was created. He existed in the Trinity for eternity's past, but His flesh did come into existence at the incarnation - this is what I mean by "create")
                      Yes I cannot see how any christian could believe such nonsense.
                      It really discounts Jesus and God. Shameful
                      God Bless
                      Randy
                      And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
                      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by looking4jesus View Post
                        Yes I cannot see how any christian could believe such nonsense.
                        It really discounts Jesus and God. Shameful
                        God Bless
                        Randy


                        Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                        2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
                        3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
                        4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
                        5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
                        6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
                        7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
                        8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
                        9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
                        10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
                        11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


                        This passage clearly tells us that it was the Spirit that led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Why? To be tested. To be tested by whom? To be tested by the Father. This is what I believe also happened in the garden. The man was tested by God, by being tempted of the devil. The first Adam failed this test, the 2nd Adam didn't.

                        And as far as Jesus being born with a sin nature, I too believe that to be nonsense, but I do believe Jesus had the ability to sin. How? By choosing to do His own will, and not His Father's will. Who's will did He choose to fullfill? His Father's will. Did anyone make Him choose to do the Father's will? No. He, like all other humans, since He was also fully human, chose to be obedient to the Father by His own choosing. No one made Him be obedient. He chose to be obedient. That is why His sacrifice was perfect, and that He was without sin.

                        For anyone to even suggest that the Father cheated by making it where Jesus couldn't sin, that is just plain wrong. Jesus Himself had to pass all of the tests fairly, in order to be the perfect sacrifice. It's too bad most people don't understand this.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by twspt View Post
                          Hello,

                          Some say that in order for Jesus to be able to save humanity, He had to be born with a sinful nature.
                          Actualy, no one is born with a sinful nature.

                          I don't understand how this could be. It is hard to fathom how Jesus could be born with a sinful nature and not sin, even as a child!
                          That is good you are having trouble fathoming it, because it ain't true.
                          The reason that Jesus lived a sinnless life is not because HE is God, or because HE didn't have a so called "sin nature", it was because HE loved the Father.

                          If Jesus was born with Adams original nature (without the propensity to sin), before the fall, then His being able to live in human flesh and not sin seems so much more plausible.
                          All mankind is born with a human nature which Adam originaly had, and continued to have after he sinned.
                          Sin can not change ones nature.

                          Jesus didn't have a propensity(a natural inclination or tendency) to sin, niether do we.
                          All mankind, including Jesus had weak flesh that was able to be used for sin.
                          The reason that we sin is because we choose to put our affections on other thing beside Christ.
                          If one has their affection on things other than Christ, that one will eventualy sin. it ain't about nature, but ones affections.

                          Understand that which is made "with hands" is temporal, that which is "made without hands" is eternal.
                          Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple (Jesus' body) that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
                          2Corinth 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (our body) were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

                          Now, if Jesus had a Body wich is temporal (made with hands) as HE never sinned and not "totaly depraved", their is no reason to think that our body is temporal because of our sinfulness.
                          All mankind's bodies are temporal because Romans 8:20-21; This ''vanity''(temperaryness or "not eternal") along with the ''bondage of corruption'' is not because of Adam's sin and the curse of the ground that followed, but because of Him(God) who has subjected it in hope of the adoption, that is, the redemption of our bodies which is the glorious liberty of the children of God.
                          The flesh was never meant to be eternal.
                          If Adam had never sinned, he would have died a natural death if he never have eaten from the Tree of Life.
                          WE all die because the way to the Tree of Life is cut off so that we who know good and evil lest we put forth our hand, and have take also of the tree of life to eat and lived for ever(Gen 3:22)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Diolectic View Post
                            Actualy, no one is born with a sinful nature.

                            That is good you are having trouble fathoming it, because it ain't true.
                            The reason that Jesus lived a sinnless life is not because HE is God, or because HE didn't have a so called "sin nature", it was because HE loved the Father.

                            All mankind is born with a human nature which Adam originaly had, and continued to have after he sinned.
                            Sin can not change ones nature.

                            Jesus didn't have a propensity(a natural inclination or tendency) to sin, niether do we.
                            All mankind, including Jesus had weak flesh that was able to be used for sin.
                            The reason that we sin is because we choose to put our affections on other thing beside Christ.
                            If one has their affection on things other than Christ, that one will eventualy sin. it ain't about nature, but ones affections.

                            Understand that which is made "with hands" is temporal, that which is "made without hands" is eternal.
                            Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple (Jesus' body) that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
                            2Corinth 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (our body) were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

                            Now, if Jesus had a Body wich is temporal (made with hands) as HE never sinned and not "totaly depraved", their is no reason to think that our body is temporal because of our sinfulness.
                            All mankind's bodies are temporal because Romans 8:20-21; This ''vanity''(temperaryness or "not eternal") along with the ''bondage of corruption'' is not because of Adam's sin and the curse of the ground that followed, but because of Him(God) who has subjected it in hope of the adoption, that is, the redemption of our bodies which is the glorious liberty of the children of God.
                            The flesh was never meant to be eternal.
                            If Adam had never sinned, he would have died a natural death if he never have eaten from the Tree of Life.
                            WE all die because the way to the Tree of Life is cut off so that we who know good and evil lest we put forth our hand, and have take also of the tree of life to eat and lived for ever(Gen 3:22)
                            You sir with respect are very confused and your thinking is not one of a true Christian. You speak much more like a guy touting the emerging churching the New Spirituality than a Bible beliving Christian Iheard the same from these so called Christians before. It goes against Gods word on almost every important doctrine.
                            God Bless
                            Randy
                            And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
                            For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
                              2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
                              3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
                              4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
                              5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
                              6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
                              7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
                              8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
                              9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
                              10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
                              11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


                              This passage clearly tells us that it was the Spirit that led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Why? To be tested. To be tested by whom? To be tested by the Father. This is what I believe also happened in the garden. The man was tested by God, by being tempted of the devil. The first Adam failed this test, the 2nd Adam didn't.

                              And as far as Jesus being born with a sin nature, I too believe that to be nonsense, but I do believe Jesus had the ability to sin. How? By choosing to do His own will, and not His Father's will. Who's will did He choose to fullfill? His Father's will. Did anyone make Him choose to do the Father's will? No. He, like all other humans, since He was also fully human, chose to be obedient to the Father by His own choosing. No one made Him be obedient. He chose to be obedient. That is why His sacrifice was perfect, and that He was without sin.

                              For anyone to even suggest that the Father cheated by making it where Jesus couldn't sin, that is just plain wrong. Jesus Himself had to pass all of the tests fairly, in order to be the perfect sacrifice. It's too bad most people don't understand this.
                              Yes but I and others here never once said that Jesus could not sin. the point wasand is Jesus was without a sin nature. Itall started with Adam. Adam and Eve were the only 2 humans to have free will and sinless at the same time. they both got is wrong and did not obey God.
                              Mow comes along Jesus who also had free will and a sinless nature but Jesu got it right and obeyed God- This is in part what Jesus did on the cross for us acceptable in Gods eyes because Jesus had free will to not obey God but he did not and obeyed.
                              God Bless
                              Randy
                              And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
                              For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

                              Comment

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