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  • The Strait way or the Broad way?

    Jesus said that the only way to enter Heaven is by the strait gate and we cannot enter in any other way.

    If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?

    Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

    Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

    God bless!!

    Firstfruits

  • #2
    Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
    Jesus said that the only way to enter Heaven is by the strait gate and we cannot enter in any other way.

    If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?

    Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

    Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

    God bless!!

    Firstfruits
    I can't see anything logically or Biblically wrong with your statement.

    Jesus is the strait gate, no other Saviour has the power/authority to save, but there are many easy believe ways and false faith that would have us follow there way to eventual hell and damnation
    Dragonfighter1
    Vivo est Ministro

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
      Jesus said that the only way to enter Heaven is by the strait gate and we cannot enter in any other way.

      If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?

      Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

      Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.



      God bless!!

      Firstfruits
      We've been taught this but is that what Jesus was really saying.

      13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

      You have to add a prior disposition to make it say Heaven.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dragonfighter1 View Post
        I can't see anything logically or Biblically wrong with your statement.

        Jesus is the strait gate, no other Saviour has the power/authority to save, but there are many easy believe ways and false faith that would have us follow there way to eventual hell and damnation
        Thank you Dragonfighter,

        God bless you!

        Firstfruits

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mikebr View Post
          We've been taught this but is that what Jesus was really saying.

          13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

          You have to add a prior disposition to make it say Heaven.
          Knowing that there are only two destinations, Heaven or Hell, what do you believe regarding the question?

          If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?

          Firstfruits

          Comment


          • #6
            It's a hard and narrow path to love your neighbor as yourself! Only with God's help!

            Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
            Jesus said that the only way to enter Heaven is by the strait gate and we cannot enter in any other way.

            If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?
            In Matthew, at any rate, the saying about entering by the narrow gate is in a very particular context: it introduces a set of sayings which conclude the Sermon on the Mount.
            Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and there are many which go in there; because the gate is confining, and the way is narrow, which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matt 7:13-14

            Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits. Do people gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Accordingly, by their fruits you shall know them. (Matt 7:15-20)

            Not every one that says to me "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; instead it's the one that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?" And then will I tell them plainly, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity. (7:21-24)

            Therefore whoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will compare him to a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it did not fall: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that hears these sayings of mine and does not do them shall be compared to a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (Matt 7:24-27)

            And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. (Matt 7:28-29)
            There's nothing much about the lake of fire, here: what Jesus is emphasizing, it seems to me, is that it won't help us at judgment time to have talked about Jesus, or to have sincerely said we followed Him. The "contradiction" of Jesus's teachings, as developed in this passage, it seems to me, lies in hearing them but not doing them: He's telling us we need to live in generosity, love, peace, and trust in God, or else we face destruction, shipwreck of our lives and their meaning!

            Rather, what counts is doing what He says to do. He makes it plain that lots of people will think they followed Jesus, but will instead be "workers of iniquity", evil-doers, because they failed to obey his commandments. They will think that they knew Him, but He will tell them He never knew them.

            It's a terrifying passage! But the warning seems to be mainly to people who suppose that they are followers of Jesus. Each of the four groups of sayings here seems to make a similar point: that the road to life and peace is difficult, the road to destruction easy, and the big difference is taking the trouble to live as Jesus tells us to, to put his sayings into practice.

            As to what we should put into practice, because it comes at the end of the Sermon on the Mount (chapters 5, 6, and 7), clearly it means that the things we must do are the things He's just been teaching in Matt 5:1-7:12.
            Be humble and peaceful, don't be angry but rather forgive, reconcile your relationships with others, be chaste in mind and body, do not divorce, speak with scrupulous concern for honesty, do good to those who hate you, love your enemies, give to the needy, pray earnestly to God, our Father, in private, and forgive others, make heaven, not worldly things, your goal, and then do not worry or judge others. Come to God with confidence and believe, and ask for what you need. Therefore do to others as you would have them do to you!
            The path to avoiding destruction that Jesus lays out, here, is a path of love and service, humility and forgiveness, relying on God, and praying, and turning our hearts to love of God and love of human beings. It's not mainly about beliefs -- although there are some involved -- it's primarily about honest, gracious, forgiving, humble, loving conduct.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Scruffy Kid View Post
              In Matthew, at any rate, the saying about entering by the narrow gate is in a very particular context: it introduces a set of sayings which conclude the Sermon on the Mount.
              Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and there are many which go in there; because the gate is confining, and the way is narrow, which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matt 7:13-14

              Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits. Do people gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Accordingly, by their fruits you shall know them. (Matt 7:15-20)

              Not every one that says to me "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; instead it's the one that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?" And then will I tell them plainly, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity. (7:21-24)

              Therefore whoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will compare him to a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it did not fall: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that hears these sayings of mine and does not do them shall be compared to a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. (Matt 7:24-27)

              And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. (Matt 7:28-29)
              There's nothing much about the lake of fire, here: what Jesus is emphasizing, it seems to me, is that it won't help us at judgment time to have talked about Jesus, or to have sincerely said we followed Him. The "contradiction" of Jesus's teachings, as developed in this passage, it seems to me, lies in hearing them but not doing them: He's telling us we need to live in generosity, love, peace, and trust in God, or else we face destruction, shipwreck of our lives and their meaning!

              Rather, what counts is doing what He says to do. He makes it plain that lots of people will think they followed Jesus, but will instead be "workers of iniquity", evil-doers, because they failed to obey his commandments. They will think that they knew Him, but He will tell them He never knew them.

              It's a terrifying passage! But the warning seems to be mainly to people who suppose that they are followers of Jesus. Each of the four groups of sayings here seems to make a similar point: that the road to life and peace is difficult, the road to destruction easy, and the big difference is taking the trouble to live as Jesus tells us to, to put his sayings into practice.

              As to what we should put into practice, because it comes at the end of the Sermon on the Mount (chapters 5, 6, and 7), clearly it means that the things we must do are the things He's just been teaching in Matt 5:1-7:12.
              Be humble and peaceful, don't be angry but rather forgive, reconcile your relationships with others, be chaste in mind and body, do not divorce, speak with scrupulous concern for honesty, do good to those who hate you, love your enemies, give to the needy, pray earnestly to God, our Father, in private, and forgive others, make heaven, not worldly things, your goal, and then do not worry or judge others. Come to God with confidence and believe, and ask for what you need. Therefore do to others as you would have them do to you!
              The path to avoiding destruction that Jesus lays out, here, is a path of love and service, humility and forgiveness, relying on God, and praying, and turning our hearts to love of God and love of human beings. It's not mainly about beliefs -- although there are some involved -- it's primarily about honest, gracious, forgiving, humble, loving conduct.
              Thank you Scruffy Kid,

              I understand what you are saying, would you therefore agree that if we do not live according to those points you have mentioned that the untimate destination is Hell, but if we do them the ultimate destination is Heaven, one being the Strait way and the other being the Broad way?

              The message is the Kingdom of God, not that which is temporal.

              Mt 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

              Mt 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:


              God bless you!

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi, firstfruits!
                Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                ... Scruffy Kid, ... would you therefore agree that if we do not live according to those points you have mentioned that the untimate destination is Hell, but if we do them the ultimate destination is Heaven, one being the Strait way and the other being the Broad way?
                God is the source of being, of love, of truth and beauty, of goodness, of light and happiness, peace and joy. The purpose of our life is that we might do as He desires, and live in love with Him, and one another. That's life's whole purpose, what we are made for.

                Because, among other things, we are sinful mortals, our sin separates us from God. Also, of course, simply as mortals we do not have the strength of heart and being to dwell with God, the living God and source of all life. How then are we to attain the purpose God has for us, and our deepest desires to live in love with God, enjoying and glorifying Him for ever? This happens through, and only through, God's own son -- and our true brother, perfect God and perfect man, conqueror of sin and death, and victor over the grave -- our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

                For us to be separated from God is utter ruination and misery; for us to be with God is fullness of goodness and joy far surpassing all we imagine or desire. Thus, the pivotal question for human life has to do with whether we will be able to attain to humanity's true end (life eternal with God) or not.

                Jesus warns us with great urgency that we must repent and believe the good news, that we must put our trust in Him,and that we must open our hearts to God. He warns us so strictly, because the consdquences are unfathomably vast and crucial; and also because people easily drift into ways of thinking and acting which, even though God is acknowledge, or fanatically "worshipped" even, Thus, Jesus here and elsewhere instructs us about how to behave. Here, and other places, he emphasizes the need for us to seek first God's kingdom (or dominion) and glory.

                That seems to be a major theme uniting this chapter!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scruffy Kid View Post
                  Hi, firstfruits!

                  God is the source of being, of love, of truth and beauty, of goodness, of light and happiness, peace and joy. The purpose of our life is that we might do as He desires, and live in love with Him, and one another. That's life's whole purpose, what we are made for.

                  Because, among other things, we are sinful mortals, our sin separates us from God. Also, of course, simply as mortals we do not have the strength of heart and being to dwell with God, the living God and source of all life. How then are we to attain the purpose God has for us, and our deepest desires to live in love with God, enjoying and glorifying Him for ever? This happens through, and only through, God's own son -- and our true brother, perfect God and perfect man, conqueror of sin and death, and victor over the grave -- our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

                  For us to be separated from God is utter ruination and misery; for us to be with God is fullness of goodness and joy far surpassing all we imagine or desire. Thus, the pivotal question for human life has to do with whether we will be able to attain to humanity's true end (life eternal with God) or not.

                  Jesus warns us with great urgency that we must repent and believe the good news, that we must put our trust in Him,and that we must open our hearts to God. He warns us so strictly, because the consdquences are unfathomably vast and crucial; and also because people easily drift into ways of thinking and acting which, even though God is acknowledge, or fanatically "worshipped" even, Thus, Jesus here and elsewhere instructs us about how to behave. Here, and other places, he emphasizes the need for us to seek first God's kingdom (or dominion) and glory.

                  That seems to be a major theme uniting this chapter!
                  Thank you Scruffy Kid,

                  So as you have shown we have to make sure we are on the right road, and as the scripture tells us if we are on the wrong road and the master has closed the door, we shall want to enter but shall not.

                  Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
                  Lk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
                  Lk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
                  Lk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
                  Lk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

                  We need therefore to heed the words of Christ.

                  Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

                  God bless you!

                  Firstfruits

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                    Knowing that there are only two destinations, Heaven or Hell, what do you believe regarding the question?

                    If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?

                    Firstfruits
                    I don't think it has anything to do with life and death but living and not living.

                    How many people do you know have the abundant life that Jesus promised? I believe that most of our lives lead to some sort of destruction not the Life that Jesus lived and promised us that we could have.

                    Most are intent to follow a set of rules and we live like the robots that we say God didn't make us.

                    I'm talking dancing like no one's watching. Living!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                      I don't think it has anything to do with life and death but living and not living.

                      How many people do you know have the abundant life that Jesus promised? I believe that most of our lives lead to some sort of destruction not the Life that Jesus lived and promised us that we could have.

                      Most are intent to follow a set of rules and we live like the robots that we say God didn't make us.

                      I'm talking dancing like no one's watching. Living!
                      Thanks Mikebr,

                      How does what you have said apply to the question?

                      If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?

                      Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

                      Thanks

                      Firstfruits

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                        Thanks Mikebr,

                        How does what you have said apply to the question?

                        If therefore those that take the broad road and go to the lake of fire should enter Heaven, would it be right to say it contradicts what Jesus has said?

                        Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

                        Thanks

                        Firstfruits
                        Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I don't think the strait gate is heaven nor the broad way hell, lake of fire, etc.

                        Jesus was talking to a group of Jews who trusted in the old Covenant for their way of life. It led them to destruction. Read what happened to them in 70AD. I believe Jesus was talking about the soon coming judgment and destruction of Jerusalem. Read the first few verses in Luke 13.


                        People being sacrificed, and towers falling on their heads. Jesus told them they would likewise perish. They would die in the same way.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                          Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I don't think the strait gate is heaven nor the broad way hell, lake of fire, etc.

                          Jesus was talking to a group of Jews who trusted in the old Covenant for their way of life. It led them to destruction. Read what happened to them in 70AD. I believe Jesus was talking about the soon coming judgment and destruction of Jerusalem. Read the first few verses in Luke 13.


                          People being sacrificed, and towers falling on their heads. Jesus told them they would likewise perish. They would die in the same way.
                          What is it that those that follow the broad way shall want to enter but will not be able to enter, with regards to the following?

                          Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
                          Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

                          Mt 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

                          Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

                          According to the scriptures, who/what is the Strait gate

                          Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

                          Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

                          Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:

                          I hope that helps.

                          Firstfruits

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Eternal life is the gift; heaven is just a destination.

                            Eternal life is a gift, not a reward. It is not earned. It exists only when my life is lived in Christ, and my salvation is made sure in him.

                            If the argument is that a certain lifestyle is required in order to obtain heaven, then I would categorically reject that.

                            If the argument is that a certain lifestyle as a general rule follows those that trust in Christ, then I would generally accept that.

                            However, we are not saved by our works or our lifestyles; we are saved in spite of them.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                              Thank you Scruffy Kid,

                              So as you have shown we have to make sure we are on the right road, and as the scripture tells us if we are on the wrong road and the master has closed the door, we shall want to enter but shall not.

                              Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
                              Lk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
                              Lk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
                              Lk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
                              Lk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

                              We need therefore to heed the words of Christ.

                              Lk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

                              God bless you!

                              Firstfruits
                              Hi FF,

                              You forgot the last 2 verses in this section:

                              Luke 13:29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.
                              Luke 13:30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."


                              The first will be last, and the last will be first.

                              Legoman

                              Comment

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