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  • Punished For Existing

    Are we punished for being in a sinful body when we did not choose to be born and we cannot choose to die (without more punishment)?
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

  • #2
    Re: Punished For Existing

    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
    Are we punished for being in a sinful body when we did not choose to be born and we cannot choose to die (without more punishment)?
    The body in itself is not sinful:

    2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

    Would the Holy Spirit live in a sinful environment?

    1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    Would a sinful body be called a temple?

    The flesh itself is not sinful, living by the flesh is. So the answer to your question is, no we are not punished because of our living in the flesh.

    Aristarkos

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    • #3
      Re: Punished For Existing

      No, imo people are punished because they refuse to ask God to forgive them of their sins. God has made a way. It's up to people to believe in his Son (Christ Jesus) and to ask for forgiveness.


      Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
      Are we punished for being in a sinful body when we did not choose to be born and we cannot choose to die (without more punishment)?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Punished For Existing

        Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
        Are we punished for being in a sinful body when we did not choose to be born and we cannot choose to die (without more punishment)?
        did you euer wish you had not cursed yourselfe? punishment, you would know that was the case. sort of like meant. ignorance, hie family.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Punished For Existing

          Originally posted by Aristarkos View Post
          The body in itself is not sinful:

          Would the Holy Spirit live in a sinful environment?

          1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

          Would a sinful body be called a temple?

          The flesh itself is not sinful, living by the flesh is. So the answer to your question is, no we are not punished because of our living in the flesh.

          Aristarkos
          What is your opinion of Romans 7?

          For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not... For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? (Romans 7:18, 22-24)
          「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
          撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Punished For Existing

            Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
            Are we punished for being in a sinful body when we did not choose to be born and we cannot choose to die (without more punishment)?
            Simply, yes.

            The punishment is death, and we are subject to it regardless of how we feel, or what we've done.

            The curse of death, is disease, but also violence. Death comes to all men, and it is unavoidable. The only cure is the resurrection.
            As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

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            • #7
              Re: Punished For Existing

              The curse was put on the ground not Adam. Punished though by removal from the tree of life, so all die. The body is not sinful. No part of man is sinful in nature.

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              • #8
                Re: Punished For Existing

                Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
                What is your opinion of Romans 7?

                For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not... For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? (Romans 7:18, 22-24)
                He wanted to do good as well, so why not say he had a good nature?

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                • #9
                  Re: Punished For Existing

                  Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                  He wanted to do good as well, so why not say he had a good nature?
                  He expands in v. 22-24 - the "inner man" is what wants to do good, but there is "nothing good" which dwells in the flesh (v. 18).
                  「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
                  撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Punished For Existing

                    Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
                    He expands in v. 22-24 - the "inner man" is what wants to do good, but there is "nothing good" which dwells in the flesh (v. 18).
                    True, so there's good and bad in his nature, right?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Punished For Existing

                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      True, so we there's good and bad in his nature, right?
                      There is wholly bad in the flesh, which is the subject I'm on at the moment.
                      「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
                      撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Punished For Existing

                        Romans 7:18

                        (Rom 7:18 KJV) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

                        Imo, Paul is refering to the carnality of the flesh. The part of us, that without repentance and being born again of the spirit is the unregenerated spirit within us (The flesh and it’s carnality). The body and mind that desires after things not of the spirit of God.

                        It desires to fulfil the worldly passions of the ungenerated (born again) spirit. Paul writes in Romans 7:18, in my flesh dwelleth no good thing.

                        Carnal G4559. sarkikos, sar-kee-kos'; from G4561; pertaining to flesh, i.e. (by extens.) bodily, temporal, or (by impl.) animal, unregenerate:--carnal, fleshly.


                        In Galatians 5, Paul writes:

                        Becuase the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.

                        (Gal 5:17 KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

                        Paul then lists the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:9-21 (Some translations write the acts of the sinful nature instead of the works of the flesh).


                        Paul Writes in Romans 8

                        (Rom 8:7 KJV) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
                        (Rom 8:8 KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

                        In Romans 8:7 Carnal is translated into the greek word Sarx (Flesh)

                        Carnal G4561. sarx, sarx; prob. from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extens.) the body (as opposed to the soul [or spirit], or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by impl.) human nature (with its frailties [phys. or mor.] and passions), or (spec.) a human being (as such):--carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).



                        (Rom 8:12 KJV) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

                        (Rom 8:13 KJV) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

                        (Rom 8:14 KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Punished For Existing

                          Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
                          There is wholly bad in the flesh, which is the subject I'm on at the moment.
                          I understand. Ok then I can't answer the question, it's inaccurate and incomplete. Blessings

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                          • #14
                            Re: Punished For Existing

                            We are not punished. We are tested. As Job was tested. Hopefully not to that extent. If we were to be tested as much as Job, would we still praise Him?

                            Job was all but dead, then God restored him with twice as much. We are tried like fine gold.


                            The old saying, "if we can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" comes to mind. It can indeed be very hot, very testing. I don't believe God will allow lead in heaven. So I ask Him to "burn off" the waste.
                            Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

                            I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

                            Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
                            And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
                            Matt 25:46

                            For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
                            and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
                            1 Tim 6:10

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                            • #15
                              Re: Punished For Existing

                              Originally posted by Aviyah View Post
                              Are we punished for being in a sinful body when we did not choose to be born and we cannot choose to die (without more punishment)?
                              If you are talking about the final judgment, Paul says we are punished for our deeds (not our existence.) See Romans 2:6 for example.

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