Discussion We cannot force another to be a Christian

[always]

Originally Posted by always
Bravo! I agree with you Keck, we as Christians have to understand it is not by force that we do anything, but through the Love of Christ when one religion dictates, that love diminshes and is not of God.

= Keck I would like to speak to this but in another thread.

I want to discuss this as well from a scriptural view, I feel that is why there are some differences in believers belief about issues. I do not feel it is scripture for us to think that we can force another to live a Christian life.

[keck553]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

Good thread. I want to add to this, but it may be several hours.

[Moose]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

I want to discuss this as well from a scriptural view, I feel that is why there are some differences in believers belief about issues. I do not feel it is scripture for us to think that we can force another to live a Christian life.

Well said, we don;t force only God does search a man and convicts them. He says, we did not choose Him but He chose us.

[Protective Angel]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

Yes bravo always. I'll be back later.

[Golgotha]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

I want to discuss this as well from a scriptural view, I feel that is why there are some differences in believers belief about issues. I do not feel it is scripture for us to think that we can force another to live a Christian life.

Explain what excommunication is about as discussed in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter at this link below?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+5&version=KJV

Or even withdrawing from wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the traditions taught of us in 2 Thessalonians 3 rd chapter at this link below;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+5&version=KJV

Surely, if the church does not discipline, when God comes to judge His House, He will; see Hebrews 12 th chapter at the link below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+5&version=KJV

Yes.. even Jesus taught discipline as a means to correct a brother that have gone astray.

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Now if you are talking about forcing someone to be a believer in Jesus Christ, then that's different. Only God can draw men unto the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe as it is on God to cause the increase.

But forcing a saved believer to live the christian life; it is Biblical to correct, to rebuke, ad even withdraw from fellowshipping with that saved, but unrepentant believer in the hopes that it will lead him to repentance.

[chad]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

Agreed. Jesus said in :

(Mat 16:24 KJV) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

First there must be repentance, a denial of self (flesh and the worlds ways) and a turning around in a persons life to follow after Jesus.

There is no point in trying to force a person to believe and accept the Christian faith when they have no interest in doing so. They will be full of unbelief, they will probably not take up their cross and follow after Jesus and live a life for God.



I want to discuss this as well from a scriptural view, I feel that is why there are some differences in believers belief about issues. I do not feel it is scripture for us to think that we can force another to live a Christian life. [/INDENT][/QUOTE]

[always]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

Explain what excommunication is about as discussed in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter at this link below?

Or even withdrawing from wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the traditions taught of us in 2 Thessalonians 3 rd chapter at this link below;

I believe that it is biblical to rebuke, or chastise a believer, however as verse 6 in Chapter 5 states

....Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump... this is for the protection of the body more so than the believer that is acting not according to the word. There is no instructions to us that if he walks away after these measures have been taken, to keep pursuing him, we pray for his repentance, and give him to God

[chad]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

A person who is forced to believe will most likely not be a person who will truly worship the father (God) in spirit and in truth.


(John 4:23 NIV) Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

[Golgotha]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

I believe that it is biblical to rebuke, or chastise a believer, however as verse 6 in Chapter 5 states

....Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump... this is for the protection of the body more so than the believer that is acting not according to the word. There is no instructions to us that if he walks away after these measures have been taken, to keep pursuing him, we pray for his repentance, and give him to God

I agree, but if that person comes up and ask questions, then we are free to lean on Him to minister to that believer.

[always]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

(John 4:23 NIV) Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

Yes, and this is where I was coming from initially, there is a lot of discourse in the Body of Christ and I hope this stays in line with Bible Chat, because it should, about wanting to mandate laws and such to get individuals to conform to our spiritual beliefs.

The Word admonish us to ."Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's

Now understand me, I will to my utmost promote those things of Christ, but to use the law only to mandate my beliefs not understanding that it is ministry that brings about a converted life, is wrong I believe, for as many as you have stated if one is made to do something their heart is not in it.

Does that mean I stop preaching the Gospel, God forbid, the Word does state to go into the highways and hedges and compel .....

but we can't forced them to,

[keck553]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

Always -

Ok well first of all, we do not belong to the Roman Empire, secondly it was the same Sadducees who said "We have no God, Caesar is our god..." who mocked Jesus with the Roman coin, but this is worthy of another thread, but I just wanted to say I do not see this idiom expanded to the same principal you may see it in (which I admit is a common interpretation).

But anyway to the point - My post in the other thread was my personal belief and standard that I (personally) do not consider someone's faith when I choose them as a candidate. Their oath of office is not to abide in Scripture, but to abide in the authority of whatever governing constitution they serve, be that local, state or national. I happen to believe that was the founders intent, but I can only apply that standard to my own decisions, and my aim is not to be hypocritical on that.

As to legislating "Christianity," I have a few thoughts from a couple of different perspectives about that, but I want start that conversation with this -

Charity, for example, feeding the widows and orphans is a primary Judeo-Christian value. So why is that value being forced on "the world?" Shouldn't an atheist be able to deny that value?

Can you justify imposing this Christian value while at the same time arguing that we should not impose marriage between one man and one woman on an atheist?

[keck553]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

And hopefully this post won't distract any response to my previous post, but here is another "perspective" I thought about, and it's based on 2 Chronicles 7:14

"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

Note God says "if MY people....." - if all Scripture is indeed profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, we should realize that 2 Chronicles 7:14 is speaking to believers, not unbelievers - today, even right now.

So this is what God is saying in our time paraphrased -

"Christians - if you humble yourselves and pray and seek My Face and repent from your evil ways, then I will hear from heaven and heal your land."

This is God speaking to me - and all believers, imploring us to repent. Repent, you say? Evil ways you say? Yes, I do say and I will preach this to my own soul. So what does God see as "evil ways?" I believe God sees His people doing evil from a different standard. A Christian who is given an opportunity to help someone in despair, but chooses to ignore their need? God sees that as evil for a Christian. How about that car that just parked in front of your mailbox waiting for their child to come out of school? Does a Christian storm out and demand they move out of "my mail box space" or is it an opportunity to minister to the driver? Maybe the driver is having marital problems, maybe a family member is ill.....I think God sees a Christian storming out and yelling at the person as evil.

We are held to a very high standard as believers. Much higher than "the world." The world is already condemned, so piling on the condemnation is rather fruitless, is it not?

But what does God care about? What is God's will for His people? Don't Christians believe that God's will for us to be transformed into the image of His Son? Shouldn't that be the focus of our prayers? And if we truly are humble and seeking, are the circumstances placed in our path a stumbling block, or are they opportunities for us to be in God's will, that is to transform ourselves in the image of His Son? There will always be two paths we can go on, but only one will lead us to godliness.

I heard a prayer request at a gathering last night, a request to "pray for our leaders" to "get this country back to the Christian nation it once was." I had difficulty with that request. First, how do I pray for a "leader?" Do I pray for God to give them a clear opportunity to accept God or reject Him? Do I pray that somehow they act as a disciple of Christ? And what about "this nation?" Was this nation ever a Christian nation? I understand the foundation of our country is based on Biblical values, but are these specific values unique to Judeo-Christian faith? Doesn't general revelation instill these values into all of mankind? Doesn't everyone naturally want to preserve their offspring? Doesn't everyone naturally know stealing is wrong? That union of same sex couples has no profit in society/humanity? Is it right to throw all these values into the Christian faith exclusively?

If true, then what part of "Christianity" is actually legislated?

[always]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

Alright Praise the Lord good discussion, have to get ready for a church meeting, but I will be back for this one Keck.

[LifeSong]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

I have a friend who is not religious, she is one of my best friends. She gets mad at me if I post too much religious stuff on FB and does not want to talk about it.... so I resort to just praying for her. God can do far more than I can,

My cousin used to be religious, now is married to an atheist and is one herself. Any time I post religious stuff she always has a snarky response. I pray for her also.

We cannot force people to listen to us or accept Christ, all we can do is to be there and talk when the opportunity arrives and allows itself. Then just leave the rest to God.

[keck553]

Re: We cannot force another to be a Christian

Alright Praise the Lord good discussion, have to get ready for a church meeting, but I will be back for this one Keck.

Lord, bless this assembly of your people and rest your Spirit on my brothers and sisters this very day; hear their petitions and give them peace that surpasses all understanding!