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  • Cessationism?

    Why do some people believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased after the Apostles died?

  • #2
    Re: Cessationism?

    I do not know if this shapes their belief, or unbelief in the gifts of the Spirit, but some do not believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Maybe the two ideologies are from the same school of thought?
    Ephesians 6:5) Servants be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6) Not with eyeservice, as with menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7) With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men;

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    • #3
      Re: Cessationism?

      With prophesying the end times for example, none of it comes to pass, causing skepticism of the gift. Same with those of judgment on America. Also had personal prophecies told me that didn't happen.
      "What then? ſhal we ſinne, becauſe we are not vnder the Law, but vnder grace? God forbid."


      Romaines vi.15 - 1560 Geneva Bible

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      • #4
        Re: Cessationism?

        Why do some people believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased after the Apostles died?

        At the end of Mark we read what has been called the great commission. Here Jesus tells the disciples what their ministry will be like in the kingdom that is being offered to Israel. Specifically healing and immunity to poison are listed.

        While the opportunity to accept the kingdom was being offered to Israel, you had gentiles becoming Christians to provoke the Jews to jealousy. (Romans 11:11) Still Israel did not receive the kingdom.

        In the first letter Paul wrote to the church in Corinth he address many problems they had. At the end of the letter he addresses the subject of spiritual gifts as they had created a sort of chaotic situation. In the middle of his discussion he introduces the biblical definition of love implying that the Corinthians were misusing their gifts to show off more that to edify each other.

        Just after his description of love Paul mentions that they are using their gifts (specifically prophecy and knowledge) because they are awaiting that which is perfect (complete) a case can be made that the partial declaration Christians could receive of God’s word would be complete once the bible had been compiled and made available. Paul even comments that tongues, prophecies, and knowledge shall “pass away”.

        It may be that when Israel finally receives the kingdom that we will once again see the full gifts of the Spirit demonstrated.

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        • #5
          Re: Cessationism?

          Originally posted by chad View Post
          Why do some people believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased after the Apostles died?
          Some denominations of Christianity affirm a special category of "gift" called the "sign gifts", which they consider to be unique to the apostles. This idea comes from passages like 2Cor. 12:12, where Paul says, "The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles." Since Paul claims that such signs, wonders and miracles were signs of his apostleship, then it logically follows that such signs, wonders and miracles were unique to the apostles. And since the Apostles are no longer with us, it is reasonable to suggest that such activities have ceased when the final apostle died.

          At the same time, however, Paul writes to the Corinthians concerning the proper practice and attitudes associated with prophecy and speaking in tongues, which are gifts that are not restricted to the apostles. Presumably then, these gifts did not end with the apostles.
          Last edited by CadyandZoe; Jun 25th 2016, 10:29 PM. Reason: edit to add last paragraph

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          • #6
            Re: Cessationism?

            Imo, it could be that the prophecy has not yet come to pass, or maybe the prophecy originated from the 'mind' of the person giving the prophecy and it was not Gods word but his?

            Originally posted by Uncle Bud View Post
            With prophesying the end times for example, none of it comes to pass, causing skepticism of the gift. Same with those of judgment on America. Also had personal prophecies told me that didn't happen.

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            • #7
              Re: Cessationism?

              What does not make sense to me is that the bible records that there are different kinds of gifts, but the same spirit (Gods holy spirit) that distributes them (1 Cor 12:1-11).

              Why would the Holy Spirit stop distributing gifts after the time of the apostles when the church is still here on earth, throughout the centuries and up to the present day?



              Originally posted by stephen guidry View Post
              I do not know if this shapes their belief, or unbelief in the gifts of the Spirit, but some do not believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Maybe the two ideologies are from the same school of thought?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Cessationism?

                Wouldn't it be better to believe that some of the signs and wonders and miracles that were performed during the times the apostles lived may have ceased, rather than the gifts of the spirit?

                Signs, wonders, miracles seem to be separate from gifts as written in Heb 2:4?

                Hebrews 2:4 (NIV)
                God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.


                Originally posted by CadyandZoe View Post
                Some denominations of Christianity affirm a special category of "gift" called the "sign gifts", which they consider to be unique to the apostles. This idea comes from passages like 2Cor. 12:12, where Paul says, "The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles." Since Paul claims that such signs, wonders and miracles were signs of his apostleship, then it logically follows that such signs, wonders and miracles were unique to the apostles. And since the Apostles are no longer with us, it is reasonable to suggest that such activities have ceased when the final apostle died.

                At the same time, however, Paul writes to the Corinthians concerning the proper practice and attitudes associated with prophecy and speaking in tongues, which are gifts that are not restricted to the apostles. Presumably then, these gifts did not end with the apostles.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Cessationism?

                  Originally posted by chad View Post
                  Imo, it could be that the prophecy has not yet come to pass, or maybe the prophecy originated from the 'mind' of the person giving the prophecy and it was not Gods word but his?
                  Had to be the latter because time frames were given which came and went without fulfillment.
                  "What then? ſhal we ſinne, becauſe we are not vnder the Law, but vnder grace? God forbid."


                  Romaines vi.15 - 1560 Geneva Bible

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                  • #10
                    Re: Cessationism?

                    As I understand it, if prophecy is from God, then it will come to pass. In the OT The book of Jeremiah does write about prophets whose word is not from God.


                    Originally posted by Uncle Bud View Post
                    Had to be the latter because time frames were given which came and went without fulfillment.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Cessationism?

                      How can a true Christian make a false prophecy though? A close friend who had a true conversion made several personal ones to me. Not being able to tell if a prophecy is from God or the mind is a good argument for cessationism.
                      "What then? ſhal we ſinne, becauſe we are not vnder the Law, but vnder grace? God forbid."


                      Romaines vi.15 - 1560 Geneva Bible

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                      • #12
                        Re: Cessationism?

                        Originally posted by Uncle Bud View Post
                        How can a true Christian make a false prophecy thoughn? A close friend who had a true conversion made several of them.
                        That's very common and very easy to do - make a false prophecy. Just like it's very easy and very common to give a false interpretation of scripture.

                        When Christians are caught up in an idea, an event, or even just a passing thought - they can insert their desires and opinions into the Bible and prophecy. It happens all of the time. Christians get focused on the idea or event and not God, not his Word, not the Holy Spirit, and definitely not discernment.

                        I've heard off the cuff "prophecies" all of my life that never came to pass - people claiming that God "told" them this. It was just their own fanciful thinking and their own elation at the moment at the idea of that thing happening. And these were true Christians.
                        sigpic
                        ".....it's your nickel"

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                        • #13
                          Re: Cessationism?

                          Would the 1948+40=1988 be a good example of false interpretation of Scripture (Matthew 24:34)?
                          "What then? ſhal we ſinne, becauſe we are not vnder the Law, but vnder grace? God forbid."


                          Romaines vi.15 - 1560 Geneva Bible

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                          • #14
                            Re: Cessationism?

                            Well, the way I see it is, just because a person gives a false prophecy, doesn't mean that God has decided to stop giving spiritual gifts. It just means someone has given a false prophecy.

                            (Jer 5:30 KJV) A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

                            (Jer 5:31 KJV) The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?


                            Originally posted by Uncle Bud View Post
                            How can a true Christian make a false prophecy though? A close friend who had a true conversion made several personal ones to me. Not being able to tell if a prophecy is from God or the mind is a good argument for cessationism.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Cessationism?

                              Originally posted by jayne View Post
                              That's very common and very easy to do - make a false prophecy. Just like it's very easy and very common to give a false interpretation of scripture.

                              When Christians are caught up in an idea, an event, or even just a passing thought - they can insert their desires and opinions into the Bible and prophecy. It happens all of the time. Christians get focused on the idea or event and not God, not his Word, not the Holy Spirit, and definitely not discernment.

                              I've heard off the cuff "prophecies" all of my life that never came to pass - people claiming that God "told" them this. It was just their own fanciful thinking and their own elation at the moment at the idea of that thing happening. And these were true Christians.
                              I thought false prophecies were supposed to come from cults, not true Christians. This makes prophecy even more unreliable, since 1 John 4:1-2 cannot even be used to determine it's validity, because of course Christians will say Jesus came in the flesh.
                              "What then? ſhal we ſinne, becauſe we are not vnder the Law, but vnder grace? God forbid."


                              Romaines vi.15 - 1560 Geneva Bible

                              Comment

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