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  • Harden his heart

    Ok. Now i have another question!
    What does it mean he hardened his heart.... like before i even think it means he cant choose, what exactly does hardening heart mean. Like make him think more of his losses, let his ego overindulge a bit by enticing..... or something else.

  • #2
    Re: Harden his heart

    Originally posted by Nurse Grace View Post
    Ok. Now i have another question!
    What does it mean he hardened his heart.... like before i even think it means he cant choose, what exactly does hardening heart mean. Like make him think more of his losses, let his ego overindulge a bit by enticing..... or something else.
    The meaning is just as it sounds. When the Bible says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, it means that God caused Pharaoh to stubbornly resist Moses' request to let the people go.

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    • #3
      Re: Harden his heart

      ok, then how can that be explained. if we are free to chose God, y in the world would he harden someones heart to not do the will of God!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Harden his heart

        The Hebrew is a tough idiom.

        It can also mean "God allowed Pharoah to exercise his hard heart and did not call him to repent."

        I can't remember the source, but there are a number of scholarly article that specifically address the use of that idiom.

        It is not a clear in the English as we might imagine.
        Some people are offended that the Sovereign God, because He loved man so much and wanted to be in an intimate relationship with his creation, gave Man a free will to respond to God's grace, offered to all. They are offended that God is God as God chooses to be, not as they choose for God to be.

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        • #5
          Re: Harden his heart

          hmmm ill try to find some articles at my library... Thanks

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          • #6
            Re: Harden his heart

            Originally posted by Nurse Grace View Post
            ok, then how can that be explained. if we are free to chose God, y in the world would he harden someones heart to not do the will of God!
            Where did God harden Pharaoh's heart to reject God's will? Just the opposite. God hardened his heart so that His will would be done. God willed that all 10 plagues come upon Egypt to establish Himself to Israel, among other reasons. One of these other reasons is to set up the Passover appointed time for the future time and date of Jesus' death. God clearly willed Egypt to receive all 10 plagues. Therefore, Pharaoh's heart was hardened for a reason.

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            • #7
              Re: Harden his heart

              Nurse Grace, I teach a community Bible study and we are in Exodus right now.

              Here are some things to know about God hardening Pharoah’s heart.
              • Pharaoh’s heart was already hardened by his own sinful pride before the plagues even started. In Exodus 5:1-4 – when Moses firsts asks Pharaoh if they could take a 3-day journey to worship God, Pharaoh said, “Who is the LORD that I should obey his voice?” It wasn’t a genuine question, but a slur against God. They had been in bondage for a very long time and what did 3 days matter? Pharaoh accused them of laziness and increased their workload. He heart was already hard.
              • God is not hardening Pharaoh’s heart against Pharaoh’s will as some will take Romans 9 and claim. It’s not like Pharaoh had a softened heart and had any compassion on these slaves or any respect for God. God is just revealing what’s already there and turning him over to his own sinful will.
              • Pharaoh hardened his OWN heart initially and then God kept it hardened.
              • Plague 1 – Blood: it says that Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, but not if Pharaoh hardened his own heart or if God did.
              • Plague 2 – Frogs: Pharaoh hardens his own heart.
              • Plague 3 – Lice: Pharaoh’s heart “grew hard”
              • Plague 4 – Flies: Pharaoh hardens his own heart
              • Plague 5 – Dead Livestock: Pharaoh’s heart “became hard”
              • Plague 6 – Boils: For the first time it say, “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart
              • Plague 7 – Hail: Pharaoh hardens his own heart
              • Plague 8 – Locusts: God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.
              • Plague 9 – Darkness: God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.
              • Plague 10 – Death of Firstborn: God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.


              If you read carefully from Exodus 5 through 14, you will see time and time again, God showed mercy and gave Pharaoh many opportunities for repentance. God did not force Pharaoh to sin or to be cruel, sadistic, arrogant, or proud beyond belief. Pharaoh already considered himself to be a god before his own encounter with Moses and the true God.

              He wouldn’t relent nor change nor submit. And eventually God took over the reins of his heart and kept it hardened. Pharaoh was never going to change and his own free will took him to that point.
              sigpic
              ".....it's your nickel"

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              • #8
                Re: Harden his heart

                Originally posted by Nurse Grace View Post
                ok, then how can that be explained. if we are free to chose God, y in the world would he harden someones heart to not do the will of God!
                God has abilities we can't explain. Consider the miracle of Cana, for instance. We all know how to turn water into wine. The way we turn water into wine is we first plow a field, plant some grape vines, give them nutrients and water and let them grow for a few years. Then we harvest the grapes; mash them, and "cook" them, and ferment them until the grape juice ferments leaving wine as the byproduct.

                How did Jesus turn water into wine? Who knows. The water became wine without going through a natural process. But God is not limited to natural processes.

                Freedom of the will is a natural aspect of being human. Being stubborn is a natural aspect of being human. But how God makes someone, like Pharaoh supernaturally stubborn, can't be explained. As the Bible says, his ways are beyond our ways. He has ways and means beyond our comprehension and when God brings things into existence according to his unique power and ability, it is beyond our comprehension.

                Why would God harden Pharaoh's heart?

                Exodus 7:3
                But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.

                God decided to manifest himself to Israel and the rest of the world through the Exodus event and the plagues of Egypt. Yahweh demonstrated his power and his dominance over the so-called gods of Egypt through plagues designed to illustrate this idea. All powers and forces we experience as human beings are under his control, and nothing happens in this world apart from his decision or approval.

                That's the message of Exodus, I think.

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                • #9
                  Re: Harden his heart

                  Originally posted by Nurse Grace View Post
                  Ok. Now i have another question!
                  What does it mean he hardened his heart.... like before i even think it means he cant choose, what exactly does hardening heart mean. Like make him think more of his losses, let his ego overindulge a bit by enticing..... or something else.
                  How about not allowing one's heart to see the truth of something that seems magical (God's Miracle) over a logical (and coincidental) occurrence.

                  For an unrighteous man MUST remain unrighteous, unless, and, until, he accepts God's Omnipotence.

                  God's Involvement.

                  God's Power.

                  God's Love.
                  JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
                  JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Harden his heart

                    Originally posted by Nurse Grace View Post
                    Ok. Now i have another question!
                    What does it mean he hardened his heart.... like before i even think it means he cant choose, what exactly does hardening heart mean. Like make him think more of his losses, let his ego overindulge a bit by enticing..... or something else.
                    Read what transpired between Moses and Pharaoh and you'll have a full understanding of what hardening of heart means. Have you seen an insect caught in spiders web? That's what means! Being influenced and controlled by power and forces beyond you. For e.g. we see Pharaoh change his mind on several occasions and wanted the children of Israel to leave, but God hardened his heart further and he changed his mind again and again.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Harden his heart

                      Originally posted by Nurse Grace View Post
                      ok, then how can that be explained. if we are free to chose God, y in the world would he harden someones heart to not do the will of God!
                      The answer to your question is in:

                      Rom 9. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
                      Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
                      Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

                      I hope the above helps?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Harden his heart

                        Originally posted by jayne View Post
                        Nurse Grace, I teach a community Bible study and we are in Exodus right now.

                        Here are some things to know about God hardening Pharoah’s heart.
                        • Pharaoh’s heart was already hardened by his own sinful pride before the plagues even started. In Exodus 5:1-4 – when Moses firsts asks Pharaoh if they could take a 3-day journey to worship God, Pharaoh said, “Who is the LORD that I should obey his voice?” It wasn’t a genuine question, but a slur against God. They had been in bondage for a very long time and what did 3 days matter? Pharaoh accused them of laziness and increased their workload. He heart was already hard.
                        • God is not hardening Pharaoh’s heart against Pharaoh’s will as some will take Romans 9 and claim. It’s not like Pharaoh had a softened heart and had any compassion on these slaves or any respect for God. God is just revealing what’s already there and turning him over to his own sinful will.
                        • Pharaoh hardened his OWN heart initially and then God kept it hardened.
                        • Plague 1 – Blood: it says that Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, but not if Pharaoh hardened his own heart or if God did.
                        • Plague 2 – Frogs: Pharaoh hardens his own heart.
                        • Plague 3 – Lice: Pharaoh’s heart “grew hard”
                        • Plague 4 – Flies: Pharaoh hardens his own heart
                        • Plague 5 – Dead Livestock: Pharaoh’s heart “became hard”
                        • Plague 6 – Boils: For the first time it say, “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart
                        • Plague 7 – Hail: Pharaoh hardens his own heart
                        • Plague 8 – Locusts: God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.
                        • Plague 9 – Darkness: God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.
                        • Plague 10 – Death of Firstborn: God hardens Pharaoh’s heart.


                        If you read carefully from Exodus 5 through 14, you will see time and time again, God showed mercy and gave Pharaoh many opportunities for repentance. God did not force Pharaoh to sin or to be cruel, sadistic, arrogant, or proud beyond belief. Pharaoh already considered himself to be a god before his own encounter with Moses and the true God.

                        He wouldn’t relent nor change nor submit. And eventually God took over the reins of his heart and kept it hardened. Pharaoh was never going to change and his own free will took him to that point.
                        As a Bible teacher, you should pay close attention to scripture: remember that what you teach shapes the spiritual view of your students.

                        Paul explained what happened in Rom 9, but according to you that is NOT really the case. His account is unrelated to actual facts in the early history of Israel. I am glad you listed Plagues 6,8,9 and 10 as the number of times God hardened Pharaoh's heart - at least you covertly agreed with Paul. But whether Pharaoh repented and asked the Israelites to leave because he feared God or simply because he and his people Egypt could no longer bear the pain and suffering brought on by the plagues, the fact remains that he wanted Israel to leave at some point!

                        Paul told us why God continued to harden his heart:

                        Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

                        23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

                        Paul reveals a contrast in God's character; what happens to those in his good standing and the consequences of standing against him. Just as both Isaiah and other prophets asked whether a vessel can question the potter that made it, we see in Rom 9:17 above that Pharoah never had a chance. It wasn't his will but the will of God that had to be done! He was specifically created for this PURPOSE, so to teach otherwise is ignoring scripture.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Harden his heart

                          I don't feel that anything I said is in contradiction to Romans 9. We studied Romans 9 when looking at early Exodus. In fact, Romans 9:17 is a quote from Exodus that we studied twice in Exodus and in Romans 9.

                          God raised up a hardened man for His own purposes and kept him hardened. God did not put sin in the heart of Pharaoh. It was already there. God moved Pharaoh's heart to remain hardened.
                          sigpic
                          ".....it's your nickel"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Harden his heart

                            Originally posted by jayne View Post
                            I don't feel that anything I said is in contraction to Romans 9. We studied Romans 9 when looking at early Exodus. In fact, Romans 9:17 is a quote from Exodus that we studied twice in Exodus and in Romans 9.

                            God raised up a hardened man for His own purposes and kept him hardened. God did not put sin in the heart of Pharaoh. It was already there. God moved Pharaoh's heart to remain hardened.

                            Originally posted by jayne View Post
                            God is not hardening Pharaoh’s heart against Pharaoh’s will as some will take Romans 9 and claim.
                            I was responding to your remark above. And I have shown that for God's will to be done, he hardened Pharaoh's heart even when Pharaoh has had enough and wanted the Israelites to leave his kingdom. I don't think there's any other way to interpret it without losing sight of what actually transpired.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Harden his heart

                              But Pharaoh wasn't letting them go out of compassion or a softening of his heart.

                              In Exodus 14, after the Hebrews fled, it says both Pharaoh and his servants began asking themselves "What have we done in letting these people go?" Could they think of at least 10 good reasons that they let them go? They hearts are already hard and God said that he would hardened Pharaoh's heart to the point that he would chase after them.

                              First, their minds were changed and their old and true nature comes forth. That happened a lot after the plagues. They would get scared, but when the disaster was over, they got mad again.

                              THEN, after that conversation between Pharaoh and his servants, God hardened Pharaoh's heart and he gathered his armies together and drove after them.

                              They were reprobates to begin with and God kept Pharaoh's heart hardened. Pharaoh never one desired to show compassion on those people.
                              sigpic
                              ".....it's your nickel"

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