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Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

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  • Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

    This was a good idea proposed by Christinme from another thread.

    Go!!!

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

  • #2
    Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

    Originally posted by TrustGzus View Post
    This was a good idea proposed by Christinme from another thread.

    Go!!!
    Can you call fatalistic determination an offer?
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    • #3
      Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

      No.

      I have to put extra characters in to be able to post.

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      • #4
        Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

        If God elects a predetermined set to salvation, then the offer is only genuinely offered to that set. Said another way: if 'the world' of John 3.16 means 'the elect', for example, then it makes no sense for the offer to be for 'all', since 'for God so loved' a limited set to begin with. This seems to me consistent with Calvin's thought, and should be rather uncontroversial for those who subscribe to his line of thinking.

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        • #5
          Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

          Depends on how someone who believes in election presents it. As it is often presented on this board, there is no real offer of salvation to the non-elect. By definition, limited atonement means no route for salvation was even provided for the non-elect. Without a legitimate route for salvation, how can the offer be genuine? If Christ didn't die for the non-elect, there's nothing to offer them.
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

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          • #6
            Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

            Originally posted by mailmandan View Post
            Can you call fatalistic determination an offer?
            No.....but we are not speaking of Islam. Explain if you could how you suggest God setting His love on a multitude of rebel sinners and granting them repentance and faith is in your mind fatalistic?

            The offer is a real offer to all who hear it. Not all get a verbal offer.....whatever God has decreed will come to pass, and that is not dependant on sinful mankind.

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            • #7
              Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

              Originally posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
              No.....but we are not speaking of Islam. Explain if you could how you suggest God setting His love on a multitude of rebel sinners and granting them repentance and faith is in your mind fatalistic?

              The offer is a real offer to all who hear it. Not all get a verbal offer.....whatever God has decreed will come to pass, and that is not dependant on sinful mankind.
              How can an offer be real to ALL who here it, if God chooses from among those who here it ?

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              • #8
                Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                I do not see the Gospel as something offered, but something given. The elect received it and the unelect discard it.

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                • #9
                  Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                  The unelect can't discard something that is not available to them.
                  Some people are offended that the Sovereign God, because He loved man so much and wanted to be in an intimate relationship with his creation, gave Man a free will to respond to God's grace, offered to all. They are offended that God is God as God chooses to be, not as they choose for God to be.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                    Originally posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
                    The offer is a real offer to all who hear it. Not all get a verbal offer.....whatever God has decreed will come to pass, and that is not dependant on sinful mankind.
                    This i think is an honest answer from a Calvinist view point. The offer to salvation is not really made to all men but only to the elect. There can be no offer to a man whom Christ did not die for. For if the atonement is limited, then only those that are included in the atonement are genuinely offered salvation.

                    Said another way, if the atonement doesn't cover the non-elect, then there can be no offer for atonement saving grace because they are not and never were intended to be, nor ever will be included in the atonement. Thus, salvation cannot be offered to them. (...If limited atonement is true...)
                    Matt 9:13
                    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                    NASU

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                      Originally posted by Pbminimum View Post
                      How can an offer be real to ALL who here it, if God chooses from among those who here it ?
                      PB.....An offer.....is an offer........if it gets accepted or rejected is not the fault of the offer....
                      A thousand people gather in a building where the Gospel is proclaimed.....they are told that everyone believing the message will be saved from their sins ........that is the offer.....the end of the story....it was offered to all, end of the story.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                        Originally posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
                        PB.....An offer.....is an offer........if it gets accepted or rejected is not the fault of the offer....
                        A thousand people gather in a building where the Gospel is proclaimed.....they are told that everyone believing the message will be saved from their sins ........that is the offer.....the end of the story....it was offered to all, end of the story.
                        No it wasn't. There was no provision made for a pre-selected group of people (i.e. being selected to believe means others were selected to allow to continue in unbelief. The selection of one, by default means the others were selected for the other purpose).

                        If there's no provision made for a particular individual, there can be no offer of provision made to that individual. Now, the equation can be explained "if you believe, you will be saved" but that is not the same as an offer of provision.
                        Matt 9:13
                        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                        NASU

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                          Originally posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
                          PB.....An offer.....is an offer........if it gets accepted or rejected is not the fault of the offer....
                          A thousand people gather in a building where the Gospel is proclaimed.....they are told that everyone believing the message will be saved from their sins ........that is the offer.....the end of the story....it was offered to all, end of the story.
                          No, it's hardly over. This is illogical according to your own doctrine.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                            This i think is an honest answer from a Calvinist view point. The offer to salvation is not really made to all men but only to the elect. There can be no offer to a man whom Christ did not die for. For if the atonement is limited, then only those that are included in the atonement are genuinely offered salvation.

                            Said another way, if the atonement doesn't cover the non-elect, then there can be no offer for atonement saving grace because they are not and never were intended to be, nor ever will be included in the atonement. Thus, salvation cannot be offered to them. (...If limited atonement is true...)
                            MARK........the offer is made to all men.....it is a true offer......everyone believing will be saved.

                            That fact that Jesus died a Covenant death does not affect the offer.
                            The fact that God has elected a multitude does not affect the offer
                            The fact that God works effectually in the elect foes not affect the offer.

                            Why is that? You can find nowhere in scripture a person who wants to believe in Jesus and trust the blood of the cross, who is told, no you are not elect

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Is the gospel offer as presented in Calvinism a genuine offer to all?"

                              Honestly, why care and argue since Paul says it's beyond our understanding. Trying to use our reason to make sense of it makes no sense. Preach the Gospel to every creature let God handle the rest.

                              Romans 11:33-36

                              Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
                              How unsearchable his judgments,
                              and his paths beyond tracing out!
                              “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
                              Or who has been his counselor?”
                              “Who has ever given to God,
                              that God should repay them?”
                              For from him and through him and for him are all things.
                              To him be the glory forever! Amen.

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