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John 14:12

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  • John 14:12

    John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father."

    Some translations use "he" as the pronoun instead of "they".

    Who is they or he? Is it us for this time period? Future events? Does it mean individual or the collective church?

    I think it's greater works now through the church or even individuals, there are many believers and God causes many things to happen through us at this time. The church I was raised in teaches this is a future event. It is interesting that he did not use the pronoun "you".

    Does anyone know?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Re: John 14:12

    Originally posted by DavidC View Post
    John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father."

    Some translations use "he" as the pronoun instead of "they".

    Who is they or he? Is it us for this time period? Future events? Does it mean individual or the collective church?

    I think it's greater works now through the church or even individuals, there are many believers and God causes many things to happen through us at this time. The church I was raised in teaches this is a future event. It is interesting that he did not use the pronoun "you".

    Does anyone know?

    Thanks.
    Good question.

    I have yet to see or read of anything done by anyone in the church that is greater than the works Jesus did as in being greater in magnitude. For example, though I hear of people being raised from the dead but Jesus did that too. Various healing taking place but Jesus did that too. The greatest work may be considered bringing salvation to someone but Jesus did that too.

    So, I am leaning toward either numerically and or regionally (influencing larger regions) due to either larger scope of ministry or because there are more believers working around the globe.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: John 14:12

      Originally posted by DavidC View Post
      John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father."

      Some translations use "he" as the pronoun instead of "they".

      Who is they or he? Is it us for this time period? Future events? Does it mean individual or the collective church?

      I think it's greater works now through the church or even individuals, there are many believers and God causes many things to happen through us at this time. The church I was raised in teaches this is a future event. It is interesting that he did not use the pronoun "you".

      Does anyone know?

      Thanks.
      Personally I think it is the Church being built in reference here, The Lord gave everything for His bride and He first showed his love by dying for her/us.
      The theme in chapters 14 through to 17 is the Lord going away so we may receive the helper, the Holy Spirit which is the formation of the Church.

      Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

      At Pentecost the Spirit came, and now we all have access to it and when we receive it, we become part of the one body with the Lord as the head, all those who are in Christ have now received life.

      Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

      3000 souls were brought into the body at Pentecost, now we get to be witnesses sent into the world as Jesus was sent into the world, there can be no greater work than the people being added to the Church.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: John 14:12

        Originally posted by DavidC View Post
        John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father."

        Some translations use "he" as the pronoun instead of "they".

        Who is they or he? Is it us for this time period? Future events? Does it mean individual or the collective church?

        I think it's greater works now through the church or even individuals, there are many believers and God causes many things to happen through us at this time. The church I was raised in teaches this is a future event. It is interesting that he did not use the pronoun "you".

        Does anyone know?

        Thanks.
        Originally posted by Old man View Post
        Good question.

        I have yet to see or read of anything done by anyone in the church that is greater than the works Jesus did as in being greater in magnitude. For example, though I hear of people being raised from the dead … but Jesus did that too. Various healing taking place … but Jesus did that too. The greatest work may be considered bringing salvation to someone … but Jesus did that too.

        So, I am leaning toward either numerically and or regionally (influencing larger regions) due to either larger scope of ministry or because there are more believers working around the globe.
        I lean as Old Man expresses. We see the work that the Apostles do as Acts and the Epistles reveal. But what else is revealed is how when the Apostles are doing their Kingdom work, many others are beginning to do Kingdom work also. From a "man" being used by God to heal Paul (Ananias sent to Paul), to an elder doing great Kingdom work in areas the Apostles are not (Philip). And this "multiplication" continues even today. To the point that on 30 Aug 17... there is the possibility that more signs/wonders/people being saved in the world today HAPPENED, more than what we read throughout the entire NT.

        None of us will ever see it, some Christians today don't even believe signs/wonders happen today. But... I have faith that in one day, more signs/wonders happen ALL over the world, then what we read all throughout the NT.

        Thus, the greater work being done as many, MANY are led to Christ.
        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: John 14:12

          Originally posted by Slug1 View Post
          I lean as Old Man expresses. We see the work that the Apostles do as Acts and the Epistles reveal. But what else is revealed is how when the Apostles are doing their Kingdom work, many others are beginning to do Kingdom work also. From a "man" being used by God to heal Paul (Ananias sent to Paul), to an elder doing great Kingdom work in areas the Apostles are not (Philip). And this "multiplication" continues even today. To the point that on 30 Aug 17... there is the possibility that more signs/wonders/people being saved in the world today HAPPENED, more than what we read throughout the entire NT.

          None of us will ever see it, some Christians today don't even believe signs/wonders happen today. But... I have faith that in one day, more signs/wonders happen ALL over the world, then what we read all throughout the NT.

          Thus, the greater work being done as many, MANY are led to Christ.
          Basically the greater works is the universal church leading people to Christ and the church doing miracles, both in vast amounts.

          That makes sense.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: John 14:12


            Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


            If you are reading the KJV, note that the italicized word "works" was added by translators after the word "greater". Read the above scripture without that italicized word. It renders that followers will do greater than just works that Jesus did at that time.

            When Jesus said the above quoted scripture, He did many works that His followers will also be able to do. Jesus was yet to go up to the Father.

            Now that He is with the Father, He does more (quantitatively and qualitatively greater) things by His kingdom than the works He then did. Correspondingly, His followers will do greater than the works He then did.

            Greater than the works that Jesus finished is the will of God that believers must labor to complete. Even greater than His will are the patience, mercy and covenant that He operates in the fullness of God. These are greater things than works that saints must also do in His perfection and kingdom.
            Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: John 14:12

              Originally posted by DavidC View Post
              John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father."

              Some translations use "he" as the pronoun instead of "they".

              Who is they or he? Is it us for this time period? Future events? Does it mean individual or the collective church?

              I think it's greater works now through the church or even individuals, there are many believers and God causes many things to happen through us at this time. The church I was raised in teaches this is a future event. It is interesting that he did not use the pronoun "you".

              Does anyone know?

              Thanks.
              Jesus is talking to the twelve disciples who will eventually become the twelve apostles. The works are "greater" in that the Spirit of Truth will accompany the Apostles to convict the world of sin, judgement, and righteousness, converting many more people than Jesus did during his short ministry.

              Comment

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