Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

His Church (Ekkelsia), His Body

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • His Church (Ekkelsia), His Body

    Nowadays, are there a lot of believers who do not see the need to join a church?

    After reading the tread on pride in church, Iím wondering because Iím turning into one of them but it wasnít intentional. I moved here (a small town) a year ago and still havenít decided on which church to go to.

    Out of guilt (for not going to church), Iím actually spending more quiet time with God. He is teaching me to be a praying Christian, to travail for lost and hurting people. Also, I visit this board more often and it has been a blessing!

    I wonít go as far as saying that we donít need churches; just that church duties kept me busy but not closer to God (again, thatís just me). Churches are not perfect and most have hidden agendas (for men to be glorified). But I miss corporate worship and fellowship with good church friends. So Iím not sure if this is a phase Iím going through or is God teaching me something new?

    Hope some of you can share, thanks!

  • #2
    Me too

    Hello Delia.

    I too do not go to church much, though I go to Bible study each Tuesday.
    To me, that is what fills my need for fellowship, spiritually, and I am not "forsaking the assembling of ourselves together."
    I have been a Christian for 30 years, and God showed me from the beginning that my real growth in Him would come from spending time in the Word, and in prayer. (I have a plaque on my wall that says, PRAYER AND THE WORD).
    I consider it a blessing that He showed me early on the difference between 'religion', and a spiritual life in Him. Understand, I DO NOT speak against church, but I do not like most 'religion'. To me, their is a difference. When we gather each Tuesday for Bible study, to me we are having church.
    Here is how Paul spoke about our many denominations.
    "....for where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, 'I am of Paul,' and another, 'I am of Apollos,' are you not carnal?" [ 1 Cor. 3:3,4].
    (today it is 'I am a Baptist,' and 'I am a Methodist,' etc.).
    So, though I love the Lord with all my heart, and crave fellowship, I am so glad He showed me the many flaws in 'religion'.
    Bless you, and just keep obeying Matthew 6:33, and you will do well.

    Comment


    • #3
      I may be a poor example or good example, depending on what you are looking for.
      I was a faithful church member for many years, serving as a pastor/teacher, and elder. (not all at the same time)
      I had a situation as you, finding myself in a strange city away from most of my brothers and sisters in the Lord I'd attended church with in the past.
      I prayed but the Lord never really laid any particular place on my heart to serve and fellowship.
      That's been 10 years ago and the situation hasn't changed, but I have. God has made it clear to me that I'm a priest and that I have the right to enter into His presence and the right to learn from Him.
      My wife and I at times miss going to an organized church, but frankly, we have grown past what everyone we know of teaches.
      The Lord is real to us. We experience His grace and mercy daily as we pray and study and seek His will.
      You have to get over the habit of self condemnation for not going to church. And you have to realize that if you are to be fed or taught it's going to have to come from the Lord to you directly.
      God says "whosoever" can come. That's individual.
      As a child of the father, you have the right to enter into His presence through the flesh of Jesus Christ and there fellowship with Him.
      Our fellowship with others is when we meet with fellow believers who believe as we do. We don't have scheduled meetings-Just when the Lord puts us together as a group.
      I'm not anti-church. But I am Pro-individual responsibility when it comes to knowing and doing the will of the Lord.
      If you believe God has placed His name on you then you have the right to fellowship together with two or three others in His name (usually that's the wife/husband and kids) and have Christ in the midst.
      I hope I wasn't confussing. It's wonderful to walk in the liberty of life in Christ.
      In Christ,
      Dave


      Revelations 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Delia View Post
        Nowadays, are there a lot of believers who do not see the need to join a church?


        Sadly, yes, and for a variety of different reasons. But every Christian needs to be part of a local church. I need one
        , I want one, but can't find one.

        I visit this board more often and it has been a blessing!
        I agree, but it really can't substitute for face-to-face "one another" ministry, where each believer is equipped and given opportunity to function as part of the body. I think the popularity and proliferation of forums like this are evidence that people are seeking something they can't find in their church -- a voice, perhaps, an opportunity to serve in a way that the local churches don't allow... I don't know what it is. But if we all were able truly to serve in our local churches, would we really be spending much time on this board? Would there be this many Christians on a board like this?

        I think this board serves a great purpose. I just wish, with all my heart, that the church was fulfilling it. Because I would rather sit in a living room with you and discuss things than sit alone at my keyboard, not seeing your face, not hearing your voice, not knowing you personally, and you not knowing me, not even talking to one another at the same time.

        I wonít go as far as saying that we donít need churches; just that church duties kept me busy but not closer to God (again, thatís just me).


        I think the churches have lost focus on what our duties really are, and what the leadership is really supposed to be doing. We're supposed to minister to one another in practical ways, encourage and exhort one another, pray for one another. The leaders are supposed to equip us to do that. But we have to come to the internet for that, and interact with people on the opposite side of the country. The best we can do for a smile and a hug is and . What is wrong with this picture? Am I the only one who is troubled by this? Maybe it's just me... but the fact that there are so many here, tells me that maybe it isn't just me.

        I miss corporate worship and fellowship with good church friends.
        Me too. Very much.

        So Iím not sure if this is a phase Iím going through or is God teaching me something new?
        I think it might have something to do with the prophesied 'falling away' and 'love growing cold' that precedes the coming of the Lord. I'm glad to hear that you use the time to draw near to God. I had to leave my last church because it was drawing me away from the Lord, though in a different way than your experience with too much busy-ness. My church just lacked spiritual life, plain and simple. It is full of money, full of activity, and full of people, but empty of life.

        There have been times throughout history when the people of God have been attacked. Sometimes it was with overt persecution, sometimes it was by seduction by various things of the world. That's what I think the churches in my area have succumbed to, and it is no longer about the worship of God. We think we are "rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing" and therefore don't realize that we are "wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked."

        I know what Jesus says to the church of Laodicea, but what is an individual to do when the church just continues in its lukewarmness? It's so hard to be isolated, and not part of the living local body.

        I would give up if I didn't know that this was one of the signs of the last days. Like you, I stay near to God, and we keep our family in the word.
        Love In Christ,
        Tanya






        Comment


        • #5
          There is only one connection that determines whether a person is part of the local expression of the ekklesia, and that is a person's connection with Christ. Which is why it is called Christ' body and not the body of Luther, the body of Wesley or the body of Calvin. A good friend of mine says "Jesus isn't all you need until Jesus is all you got". As the Lord is bringing us into His purpose he is "calling us out" from religion and good works. As we mature in the Lord we go from doing church to being the Church.

          What typically happens in a liturgical meeting within the religious institution is really not for God but for self. The evidence lies within the variety of liturgy. Ministering to the Lord is lost within this system, it is really about man and all his needs. Generally speaking it is very carnal, full of man-made principles and concepts. How many times have you heard "welcome to the House of God", this is an outright lie, a deception that is not only unscriptural but one that wars against the very purpose of Father. We as believers are His house, not some building with a steeple. Those who use this term are either ignorant of God's purpose and desire or in outright rebelion to it. It really reveals the state of immaturity that exist among the participants.

          God's purpose is not reached by merely reaching the lost, the goal is for us all to become mature. Paul makes this very clear in Ephesians 4:11-16.
          11 He is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ, 13 until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord, measuring up to the full stature of Christ.
          14 Then we will no longer be like children, forever changing our minds about what we believe because someone has told us something different or because someone has cleverly lied to us and made the lie sound like the truth. 15 Instead, we will hold to the truth in love, becoming more and more in every way like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. 16 Under his direction, the whole body is fitted together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.
          I know that many would read what I posted and be offended but it is the truth. Believe me when I say I am not popular at all in my community. It's time for the bride to grow up and come out from those who desire to be envied by the world. We should only be concerned and motivated by the affections of Jesus. The world hates Jesus. so why should we, His promised bride want the world to feel differently about us?

          May HolySpirit help us truely become His beloved having eyes and hearts for Him only.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Delia View Post
            Nowadays, are there a lot of believers who do not see the need to join a church?

            After reading the tread on pride in church, Iím wondering because Iím turning into one of them but it wasnít intentional. I moved here (a small town) a year ago and still havenít decided on which church to go to.

            Out of guilt (for not going to church), Iím actually spending more quiet time with God. He is teaching me to be a praying Christian, to travail for lost and hurting people. Also, I visit this board more often and it has been a blessing!

            I wonít go as far as saying that we donít need churches; just that church duties kept me busy but not closer to God (again, thatís just me). Churches are not perfect and most have hidden agendas (for men to be glorified). But I miss corporate worship and fellowship with good church friends. So Iím not sure if this is a phase Iím going through or is God teaching me something new?

            Hope some of you can share, thanks!
            Jesus told us we should 'light our candle' from the local church.

            Matthew 5:14-16, "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

            We know, according to Revelation chapters 2-4, that the local church is the candlestick.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sold Out View Post
              Jesus told us we should 'light our candle' from the local church.

              Matthew 5:14-16, "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

              We know, according to Revelation chapters 2-4, that the local church is the candlestick.
              I really don't see anywhere in the scriptures that Jesus told us to even light our candles, let alone to light them from the local church. When we become untied with Christ we become part of the local ekklesia without even coming in physical contact with another believer. Jesus is life and He is the one who baptizes with HolySpirit and fire not the local gathering. In the book of Revelation the candle sticks are representative of the believers in those communities and not what is generally projected today in reference to the local church. It's not the 1st, 2nd or 407th Homiletical Hermeneutical Philosophical Apostolic Church of Christ. This is very carnal. The scriptures tell me that the Church bears His name not their own. The church, local or colectively is not the dispenser of Life or Spirit, Jesus is. The church doesn't do the pouring God does. We as the Church are just witnesses to the work of the Lord.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jiggyfly View Post
                I really don't see anywhere in the scriptures that Jesus told us to even light our candles, let alone to light them from the local church. When we become untied with Christ we become part of the local ekklesia without even coming in physical contact with another believer. Jesus is life and He is the one who baptizes with HolySpirit and fire not the local gathering. In the book of Revelation the candle sticks are representative of the believers in those communities and not what is generally projected today in reference to the local church. It's not the 1st, 2nd or 407th Homiletical Hermeneutical Philosophical Apostolic Church of Christ. This is very carnal. The scriptures tell me that the Church bears His name not their own. The church, local or colectively is not the dispenser of Life or Spirit, Jesus is. The church doesn't do the pouring God does. We as the Church are just witnesses to the work of the Lord.
                We are the candle...the candlestick is the local church. Jesus told us to 'let our light shine' as a lit candle. Rev 2-4 CLEARLY states the candlesticks are the local churches!!!!

                I understand the church as body apart from any local organization, but we are commanded to assemble together in local congregations. That is why we have PASTORS, DEACONS, ELDERS. Without the local church, none of these men would be necessary.

                If you witness to people and they get saved...where are you going to take them to grow? THE LOCAL CHURCH. Or you could bring them to your house, in which case you would become a church yourself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sold Out View Post
                  We are the candle...the candlestick is the local church. Jesus told us to 'let our light shine' as a lit candle. Rev 2-4 CLEARLY states the candlesticks are the local churches!!!!

                  I understand the church as body apart from any local organization, but we are commanded to assemble together in local congregations. That is why we have PASTORS, DEACONS, ELDERS. Without the local church, none of these men would be necessary.

                  If you witness to people and they get saved...where are you going to take them to grow? THE LOCAL CHURCH. Or you could bring them to your house, in which case you would become a church yourself.
                  When Christ addressed the local assemblies in Revelation he told each on of them that "if any man hear my voice--etc." Even though He was addressing local churches the invitation was to individuals to overcome.

                  That's the way it's always been. Individually we're responsible to the Lord for our actions as believers. No one will stand before God and be allowed the excuse that they didn't overcome because their church didn't.

                  On the other hand, when God judges the great whore in Rev. all those who are part of it will be judged. That's why Paul was so clear in II Cor. 6:7 to come out from among them and be separate.

                  God's defination of a local church is in Matt. 18:20--"where two or three are gathered together in my name."

                  In Acts the believers went from house to house worshipping the Lord. Paul got letters to go to the houses to find and kill the believers.

                  Somewhere along the line men decided to "build an house for the name of the Lord" and we ended up with the situation we are in today. But God is very clear in stating that we are the house of God. (Hebrews 3:6--whose house ye are--"

                  We are Bethel. We're where the ladder exists to His presence.

                  Fellowship with other like minded believers is wonderful, but God help us if we relinquish our spiritual responsibilities to someone who knows little of the things of the Lord simply for the sake of belonging to a church.
                  In Christ,
                  Dave


                  Revelations 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AliveinChristDave View Post
                    When Christ addressed the local assemblies in Revelation he told each on of them that "if any man hear my voice--etc." Even though He was addressing local churches the invitation was to individuals to overcome.

                    That's the way it's always been. Individually we're responsible to the Lord for our actions as believers. No one will stand before God and be allowed the excuse that they didn't overcome because their church didn't.

                    On the other hand, when God judges the great whore in Rev. all those who are part of it will be judged. That's why Paul was so clear in II Cor. 6:7 to come out from among them and be separate.

                    God's defination of a local church is in Matt. 18:20--"where two or three are gathered together in my name."

                    In Acts the believers went from house to house worshipping the Lord. Paul got letters to go to the houses to find and kill the believers.

                    Somewhere along the line men decided to "build an house for the name of the Lord" and we ended up with the situation we are in today. But God is very clear in stating that we are the house of God. (Hebrews 3:6--whose house ye are--"

                    We are Bethel. We're where the ladder exists to His presence.

                    Fellowship with other like minded believers is wonderful, but God help us if we relinquish our spiritual responsibilities to someone who knows little of the things of the Lord simply for the sake of belonging to a church.

                    I agree 100% with what you stated. The church, as a living organism, is the worldwide body of believers that have trusted Christ for salvation.

                    But we have to be careful not to draw attention away from the local church and it's purpose in furthering God's Kingdom. We are commanded to assemble together for fellowship, exhortation, and teaching. We have to have a place to bring new converts so they can grow and serve the body of Christ. Proverbs 27:17 says "Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." We will become DULL spiritually if we don't rub shoulders with other believers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AliveinChristDave View Post
                      I may be a poor example or good example, depending on what you are looking for.
                      I was a faithful church member for many years, serving as a pastor/teacher, and elder. (not all at the same time)
                      I had a situation as you, finding myself in a strange city away from most of my brothers and sisters in the Lord I'd attended church with in the past.
                      I prayed but the Lord never really laid any particular place on my heart to serve and fellowship.
                      That's been 10 years ago and the situation hasn't changed, but I have. God has made it clear to me that I'm a priest and that I have the right to enter into His presence and the right to learn from Him.
                      My wife and I at times miss going to an organized church, but frankly, we have grown past what everyone we know of teaches.
                      The Lord is real to us. We experience His grace and mercy daily as we pray and study and seek His will.
                      You have to get over the habit of self condemnation for not going to church. And you have to realize that if you are to be fed or taught it's going to have to come from the Lord to you directly.
                      God says "whosoever" can come. That's individual.
                      As a child of the father, you have the right to enter into His presence through the flesh of Jesus Christ and there fellowship with Him.
                      Our fellowship with others is when we meet with fellow believers who believe as we do. We don't have scheduled meetings-Just when the Lord puts us together as a group.
                      I'm not anti-church. But I am Pro-individual responsibility when it comes to knowing and doing the will of the Lord.
                      If you believe God has placed His name on you then you have the right to fellowship together with two or three others in His name (usually that's the wife/husband and kids) and have Christ in the midst.
                      I hope I wasn't confussing. It's wonderful to walk in the liberty of life in Christ.
                      Originally posted by AliveinChristDave View Post
                      When Christ addressed the local assemblies in Revelation he told each on of them that "if any man hear my voice--etc." Even though He was addressing local churches the invitation was to individuals to overcome.

                      That's the way it's always been. Individually we're responsible to the Lord for our actions as believers. No one will stand before God and be allowed the excuse that they didn't overcome because their church didn't.

                      On the other hand, when God judges the great whore in Rev. all those who are part of it will be judged. That's why Paul was so clear in II Cor. 6:7 to come out from among them and be separate.

                      God's defination of a local church is in Matt. 18:20--"where two or three are gathered together in my name."

                      In Acts the believers went from house to house worshipping the Lord. Paul got letters to go to the houses to find and kill the believers.

                      Somewhere along the line men decided to "build an house for the name of the Lord" and we ended up with the situation we are in today. But God is very clear in stating that we are the house of God. (Hebrews 3:6--whose house ye are--"

                      We are Bethel. We're where the ladder exists to His presence.

                      Fellowship with other like minded believers is wonderful, but God help us if we relinquish our spiritual responsibilities to someone who knows little of the things of the Lord simply for the sake of belonging to a church.
                      Excellent posts, AliveinChristDave!

                      Church (small c) membership (even though itís not biblical) is fine if it feeds you but if Christ is your Savior then you are part of the Ekklesia/Church (big C).

                      This is from the testimony of a man by the name of Ken Eckerty:
                      Not only had God begun showing me that Christ was not preeminent in my own life, but that He did not have the first-place in the churches. Christ had lost the preeminence in His own Assembly, and just like the early church of Ephesus, the modern church has lost its first love. (Rev. 2:4)

                      What (or whom) has replaced Him? Well, activities, for one; ministries for another; and even gifted men have ďreplacedĒ Christ. We are so busy ďforĒ Christ that we have forgotten that to ďbe withĒ Christ is the better thing.

                      Remember the story of Mary and Martha? Martha was so busy serving Christ that she forgot that Mary, who was sitting at the feet of Jesus, had the better thing. Jesus never condemned Martha for being a server. Service is importantóbut only when that service flows from our intimacy with Christ. Anything less is idolatry. We have made our ministries and our activities into little idols.

                      If you doubt what I am saying, simply read the newspaper advertisements for our churches or look at the church bulletin. Most churches try to draw people by boasting of all the activities and ministries that are made availableóministries for the children, ministries for the young adults, and ministries for the married. There are activities going on all the time.

                      Are we so bored with real intimacy with each other that we have to look for alternatives to fill our time? I often wonder, though, how many of these ministries Jesus has really blessed.

                      I once knew a pastor who had recognized this problem in ďhis ownĒ church and called on the congregation to put a halt to all ministries and activities and pray about what the Lord would have them to do next. Unfortunately, most of the church as well as the elders and deacons did not see this as necessary. You see, this particular church had made ministry an idol. They could not let go of their busy-ness.

                      This may be the testimony of one man but it really is the testimony of millions. I hear this all the time. Something already took place in the heavenlies and now it is taking place on the earth. There is an awakening taking place and it's nothing short of miraculous.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you Souled Out

                        Thank you Souled Out for posting the testimony by Ken Eckerty. It is so right on in it's analysis of much of the church world today. I pray so much that God would open the eyes and heart of those who are caught up in religiosity, instead of spirituallity.
                        As I said in my post, I feel blessed that He showed me early on the difference between the two. But I must also credit men of God like A.W. Tozer, and others, for their faithfulness to God and His Word.
                        And I praise Him for sites like this forum, where we can share these truths with one another. (see poem I posted called THE BIBLE FORUM).

                        God bless us all.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you really want to be concerned, check out the influence of the state and federal govt. on churches that are incorpored (501C3).

                          Who is the HEAD of the church? (Christ) But MOST churches in the U.S. are incorporated.

                          It is good to search these things out...for yourselves. Just type in "incorporation+church" and go from there. Lots to learn.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Delia View Post
                            Nowadays, are there a lot of believers who do not see the need to join a church?

                            After reading the tread on pride in church, I’m wondering because I’m turning into one of them but it wasn’t intentional. I moved here (a small town) a year ago and still haven’t decided on which church to go to.

                            Out of guilt (for not going to church), I’m actually spending more quiet time with God. He is teaching me to be a praying Christian, to travail for lost and hurting people. Also, I visit this board more often and it has been a blessing!

                            I won’t go as far as saying that we don’t need churches; just that church duties kept me busy but not closer to God (again, that’s just me). Churches are not perfect and most have hidden agendas (for men to be glorified). But I miss corporate worship and fellowship with good church friends. So I’m not sure if this is a phase I’m going through or is God teaching me something new?

                            Hope some of you can share, thanks!
                            Here is the passage most often referred to that seems to say we are required to gather together into local assemblies.

                            (Heb 10:19-39 KJV) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, {20} By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; {21} And having an high priest over the house of God; {22} Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. {23} Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

                            {24} And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: {25} Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

                            {26} For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. {28} He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: {29}Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? {30} For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. {31} It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

                            {32} But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; {33} Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

                            {34} For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. {35} Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. {36} For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. {37} For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

                            {38} Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. {39} But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

                            Now in the blue highlight, this seems to be a recognition that we will gather together in order to exhort and encourage one another in the faith as we wait for the Lord's return. And Paul refers to these saints as his companions in the tribulation they were all undergoing. His scope thus encompasses far more than a local fellowship of believers.

                            If you look however to the other parts I bolded, you might see that where we are commanded to gather is before the heavenly throne where our High Priest now resides. The willful sin is not failing to gather ourselves into local assemblies, but failure to come before the throne and that so as not to draw back into the world.

                            Our church gatherings have become worldly in their purpose and very little real exhortation or encouragement is given in them for this standing fast in the Lord. In fact, at least in America, they have the mark of Balaam and Nicolas already upon them in how they have covenanted with the political beast that controls them. Their 501-3c status thus effectively silences them to oppose this political machine and that so they can get your "tithes". This is how they are like Balaam who looked to make a gain over the people he was hired to curse. This harlot is therefore not whom the command concerns about our gathering together.

                            If anything, the passage shows that despite this harlot, we can come before the Lord and receive all that we need from Him and this is what we need to do!
                            Robin

                            Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
                            And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
                            Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
                            Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Something different

                              Just to put a different view of most responses on this topic, I think church is very important. There are definite and most of the time obvious problems with church (church would be perfect if it weren't for man), there is positive qualities as well. I find it pretty easy to stay away from the faults of church (egos and politics) and try to draw close to the good things it has to offer like fellowship. I feel like I have more wisdom than most in my church like many of you have expressed but that means I can lead a more mentoring role in others. I don't feel it's right to forsake the church because it's not offering enough for me. When the Bible says don't forsake gathering together, I think it's a pretty literal term that says you should get together with other Christians. I think that royo found that without joining a church. My wife and I tried several churches of several denominations before we found one that fed us and we felt was based on the Bible. Even then it took some time before we felt comfortable.

                              There are several comments about how not going to church improved someone's walk or how church is unneccessary but how about all of those who quit going to church and fall away. Falling away from Christ is much more common for those who discontinue or never begin fellowship. Like Ken's excerpt, ministry can become an idol and get in the way of our relationship and I'm sure that church can be too political in reference to the post above mine, but only if we let it. This is only more the reason for strong, idealistic Christians to remain in church (within reason, there are limits to what churches are involved in that we should remain there) and direct where they go in the future.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X