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  • #16
    Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
    Below are some verses giving biblical examples of where casting lots has taken place. I don't think these verses inherently point to "luck" being something that God is dependant upon, however, they do demonstrate that some things are left up to chance(as they apply to men).

    Proverbs 16:33
    The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.

    Leviticus 16:8-10 And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel. And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering, but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.

    Jonah 1:7 And they said to one another, “Come, let us cast lots, that we may know on whose account this evil has come upon us.” So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah.

    Proverbs 18:18 The lot puts an end to quarrels and decides between powerful contenders.

    Luke 1:9 According to the custom of the priesthood, he was chosen by lot to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense.

    So I think chance is a better word to describe possible outcomes than luck.(which is actually definitially about the same thing) Ideally we hope that all of our chances within life present before us our good ones.(unfortunately that's often not the case) God knows all the possible outcomes though..and can will which ever one he wants to to fulfill his will...
    Hi Friend,

    I see the casting of lots clearly dispells the myth of chance or luck. Imagine for a moment what our country might be like IF all people placed the decision of leadership within the hands of God through a lottery instead of popular vote. In fact what would our churches be like IF every member relied on God raising up Godly shepherds, and teachers rather than taking matters into our own hands and voting for those WE THINK best.

    Does this mean that we would always be assured of having Godly leaders in the government or church? Not at all! Sometimes God gives us exactly what we want, and then allows us to learn from the consquences. Consider for instance how the people desired to make Saul to rule over them, because they wanted to be like the rest of the world. They weren't satisfied with God as their Sovereign Ruler, they wanted to have a man just like themselves, so God gave them what they desired. Were they lucky or even blessed? I don't think so!

    I've come to realize it is better to say, "God has blessed me" rather than speaking of how lucky I might be. Truly when we are in Christ we are blessed beyond measure!

    Many Blessings,
    RW

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    • #17
      "Luck" is a pagan concept.
      Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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      • #18
        Then may I be truly blessed while in Las Vegas...

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        • #19
          I was actually going to suggest instead of saying "good luck" maybe "may God Bless" is better.

          Rabbiknife, I would expect that you will recieve many blessings in Las Vegas, they may not be exactly the ones you have in mind. There is still the law of large numbers and what ye sow ye reap.

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          • #20
            Yeah, it's that "law of large numbers" and "random number generator" thing that seems to always get in the way!!!



            But the dancing water fountains in front of Belagio with Old Blue Eyes singing "Luck be a Lady tonight" is great!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by RogerW View Post
              Hi Friend,

              I see the casting of lots clearly dispells the myth of chance or luck. Imagine for a moment what our country might be like IF all people placed the decision of leadership within the hands of God through a lottery instead of popular vote. In fact what would our churches be like IF every member relied on God raising up Godly shepherds, and teachers rather than taking matters into our own hands and voting for those WE THINK best.

              Does this mean that we would always be assured of having Godly leaders in the government or church? Not at all! Sometimes God gives us exactly what we want, and then allows us to learn from the consquences. Consider for instance how the people desired to make Saul to rule over them, because they wanted to be like the rest of the world. They weren't satisfied with God as their Sovereign Ruler, they wanted to have a man just like themselves, so God gave them what they desired. Were they lucky or even blessed? I don't think so!

              I've come to realize it is better to say, "God has blessed me" rather than speaking of how lucky I might be. Truly when we are in Christ we are blessed beyond measure!

              Many Blessings,
              RW
              Thanks for that insight Roger. We do take a certain degree of chance in moving forward in our Christian walk..thus the scripture.."work out your salvation..with fear and trembling."

              If we weren't inherently taking any chances within our walks..there would be no need for us to have or demonstrate faith in God, as we would inherently already know the outcome of every situation we went into.

              Now I see what you are saying though..the concept of luck isn't at all applicable to God and his Will.(I hope it didn't come across that way above)

              I think though it does apply to man and his perceptions of situations..seeing as how often times we take chances in doing various things in life, having faith that God will lead us in the right direction.

              Here are some more biblical examples of people taking chances. Think of Daniel disobeying in Babylon..and being thrown into the Lion's Den. Daniel definitely was taking a chance there..a rather big one. Same with Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednigo..those men definitely were taking huge chances with their lives on earth in choosing to follow God. Of course we know their chances are always 100% good with God helping people from reading scripture..but I often wonder how many of us would be of similar faith of these men in our walks without having access to such stories.

              Anyway..thanks for your input. God bless in Christian Love. Stephen

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                Thanks for that insight Roger. We do take a certain degree of chance in moving forward in our Christian walk..thus the scripture.."work out your salvation..with fear and trembling."

                If we weren't inherently taking any chances within our walks..there would be no need for us to have or demonstrate faith in God, as we would inherently already know the outcome of every situation we went into.

                Now I see what you are saying though..the concept of luck isn't at all applicable to God and his Will.(I hope it didn't come across that way above)

                I think though it does apply to man and his perceptions of situations..seeing as how often times we take chances in doing various things in life, having faith that God will lead us in the right direction.

                Here are some more biblical examples of people taking chances. Think of Daniel disobeying in Babylon..and being thrown into the Lion's Den. Daniel definitely was taking a chance there..a rather big one. Same with Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednigo..those men definitely were taking huge chances with their lives on earth in choosing to follow God. Of course we know their chances are always 100% good with God helping people from reading scripture..but I often wonder how many of us would be of similar faith of these men in our walks without having access to such stories.

                Anyway..thanks for your input. God bless in Christian Love. Stephen
                Is taking chances the same as stepping out in faith?

                David faced a giant with a rock and had no doubts about the outcome. It didn't sound much like David thought he was taking a chance. I would like a helping of that kind of faith.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gregg View Post
                  Is taking chances the same as stepping out in faith?
                  I think it is to a degree from a man's perspective. In the disciples case they were definitely taking big chances when following Jesus..I think of Peter stating.."we've given up everything to follow you."

                  Now we have a great deal of assurance with us being alive today..as the fullness of the gospel has been handed down to us very easily. These men actually just had to take Jesus by his Word..and weren't taught scriptures or as learned as we are in the scriptures today. Think of how many disciples weren't willing to take the chance, whom at some point deserted and stopped following him based on the risk being too big for what they perceived to be their own livelyhood.

                  I think Love is often times about taking big chances..and not entirely knowing the end result..but doing the right thing in spite of not knowing the end result. God bless in Christian Love. Stephen

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                  • #24
                    No we don't recieve back everything we sow and everything we reap. But in general, I think the principle of sowing and reaping applies.

                    Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                    Do you really think we receive back everything we sow though? I don't think so...if that were the case Adam and Eve would have been condemned from the onset of the Fall..as God's justice essentially calls for they're immediate punishment upon disobedience...I'm thinking we don't exactly reep everything we sow in this life...seeing as how God generally demonstrates mercy with his justice. If we each received back exactly everything..then I think many of us would be in a bad situation within this life..thank Goodness for the grace given by God through the cross!

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                    • #25
                      Thanks again for all the responses.... Here some stuff to 'chew' on....
                      • S: (n) fortune, destiny, fate, luck, lot, circumstances, portion (your overall circumstances or condition in life (including everything that happens to you)) "whatever my fortune may be"; "deserved a better fate"; "has a happy lot"; "the luck of the Irish"; "a victim of circumstances"; "success that was her portion"
                      • S: (n) luck, fortune, chance, hazard (an unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that causes an event to result one way rather than another) "bad luck caused his downfall"; "we ran into each other by pure chance"
                      • S: (n) luck, fortune (an unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that leads to a favorable outcome) "it was my good luck to be there"; "they say luck is a lady"; "it was as if fortune guided his hand"
                      I found this definition of 'luck' on the internet... Interesting how 'luck' is described as 'ones fortune' either being bad or good.. one's destiny is determined by luck or fate..

                      In 1994 Jesus set me free from demonic oppression/possession.. he drove the 'devils' that had controlled and manipulated my life for many years.. out and away from me.. and He filled me with His Holy Ghost.. After my conversion I wanted to learn what those 'wicked' spirits were really like .. what were the'yre characterisitics, I was very curious and wanted to learn from Him.. So I started digging into my Concordance and started doing some word studies on 'devils', demons, those possessed with devils.. etch.. In my search I cam across Greek Work #1142 which is

                      daimōn: it is translated as a devil, devils, in the NT an evil spirit..
                      a god or goddess, an inferior diety...

                      Now when I began to study this word I began to look at the 'root word' etymology and its derived from a word which is spelled...

                      daio: which means to 'distrubute FORTUNES'....

                      It's interesting how the word 'luck is defined as ones fortune .. then to find the 'root word' for 'devils' 'demons' a word which means to 'distribute fortunes'... this is very interesting..

                      I firmly believe and 'know' that the Kingdom of Heaven does not operate on 'luck'.. and that its roots are in paganistic practices.. superstitiion.... etc... I also believe that 'luck' or the firm 'belief' in it ...... is the opposite of having 'good solid sound 'faith' in Him and what He has done and what He can accomplish thru each of His children. I honestly believe satan and his kingdom/thrones/ principalites.. operate in this realm... that because he is not omnipresent nor is he god..... yet he wants to be just 'like' God..... I've often wondered if 'luck' and the belief in it and the 'use' of it .. is none other than the 'devil's grace' bestowed..

                      I know from experience that when one walks in 'faith' with God.. as Noah did, As Abraham did... satan cannot stand it.. he despises that and he absolutely HATES it.. why .. because your trusting 100 percent in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob... and not in your circumstances, what everbbody else is telling you... your not relying on 'luck', your walking by Faith and not sight... this is what satan despises and hates.... believe me he does....

                      I have another question....

                      what is considered 'faithlessness'? would this be considered to be when one 'relys' and bases their 'life circumstances' on 'luck iteself'?

                      Once again thanks again for all the responses... God Bless you All!
                      Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                      ------------------------------------------------
                      Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                      ------------------------------------------------
                      The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                      Jeremiah 31:3

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by theBelovedDisciple View Post
                        what is considered 'faithlessness'? would this be considered to be when one 'relys' and bases their 'life circumstances' on 'luck iteself'?

                        Once again thanks again for all the responses... God Bless you All!
                        Thank you for your insight. I think people take risks..or chances. I don't think that luck is what motivates us to move forward in our walks though. We all know that having good and bad fortune is something that is dependant upon God in the end. I think people generally use the term "Good luck" casually..basically for the purpose of wishing someone well...similar to saying "God speed"(Which also means good fortune or success) The word origin for Godspeed is taken from the following..

                        [From Middle English God spede (you), may God prosper (you) : God, god; see god + spede, third person sing. present subjunctive of speden, to prosper (from Old English spēdan, from spēd, success; see speed).]

                        Notice how there's no demonic connatation given to the words above. I think most user's of either phrase would essentially think they'd be saying the same thing...seeing as how both phrases carry the same meaning. So in short, the English language is a tricky one. People use words casually and synonomously often times when defining things..and many words and phrases..despite their origins(whether we think they be Godly or ungodly)..carry essentially the same meanings.

                        I like how the Apostle Paul put's things regarding word origins..and the discussions that they create..

                        2 Timothy 2:14
                        Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                          So basically your saying that you believe in predestination down to the most minute level..correct? Do you think that their is any probability factored in with this? I mean..obviously God knows the outcome of all things..but does that mean that he doesn't give men a very large range of choices to make each day in there walks? Does God forcibly will each man to tie his shoes each day, brush they're teeth each day..etc?
                          Hi Friend of I AM,
                          God gives us all sorts of choices to make, i don't use laces i choose to use valcro or thongs. Do you brush each day? or Do you forget now and then?

                          God doesn't have robots serving Him. I believe everything happens for a reason and God knows what that reason is. We may not understand at the time, but later sometimes we say "Oh that's why that happened or that's why that was given to me, so I may pass it on to you. There is no such thing as luck or coincidents only God incidents
                          John 8:31-32



                          31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                          Dizzy

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
                            Hi Friend of I AM,
                            God gives us all sorts of choices to make, i don't use laces i choose to use valcro or thongs. Do you brush each day? or Do you forget now and then?

                            God doesn't have robots serving Him. I believe everything happens for a reason and God knows what that reason is. We may not understand at the time, but later sometimes we say "Oh that's why that happened or that's why that was given to me, so I may pass it on to you. There is no such thing as luck or coincidents only God incidents
                            Hi Dizzy,

                            I think I made others fully aware that I was only speaking of things seemingly appearing lucky from the human perspective in several posts. All luck means is essentially chance. There is a degree of chance to what we do in life..or else..there would be no need for us to have faith. Now chance should not be what motivates us, faith should..but when we trust in God, we are taking chances as we do not know inherently what will happen at all times. Think of Abraham, God leading him out of the land of the Chadleans...or Abraham taking the chance of sacraficing his son.. Abraham had faith and took a chance with God, we all should do the same.

                            Now I don't know how God factors in our choices and our decision making all of the time with his will..there might be an infinite amount of scenarios that can come about from every situation we make, and then again..there might only be a few. What I do know is that God has given us a great spectrum of choices to make within this lifetime..and ideally, as we move forward in this walk..we hope that the choices that we make..and the chances we take, will be motivated by faith, love, and sacrafice..as oppossed to superstition.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gregg View Post
                              I was actually going to suggest instead of saying "good luck" maybe "may God Bless" is better.

                              Rabbiknife, I would expect that you will recieve many blessings in Las Vegas, they may not be exactly the ones you have in mind. There is still the law of large numbers and what ye sow ye reap.
                              God luck or God bless. I don't think people inherently study every single word and its origin to determine what connotation it had back in the middle ages...and how it relates to something. This is why it's important to not strive over words in these discussions. If someone says God luck to me, I'm usually under the impression that the person has meant me well..I don't think someone's trying to put some vodoo curse on me. Let's be serious now..and stop finding more ways to divide ourselves over things that have very little meaning to us in moving forward in our walk with God.

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                              • #30
                                I think the studying of word origins can be profitable at times..I don't think that necessarily one word or phrase denotes the overall belief, faith and character of an individual...nor their ability to understand the word of God.(i.e. trinity) Still..it is interesting to know the origin of the word luck..I thank beloved disciple and others for sharing their opinions and information with us.

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