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HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

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  • #31
    Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

    Originally posted by Walls View Post
    With most of this I can agree. Thanks.

    yes I think sometimes we can have the same idea and thoughts, but we speak differently. Thank you also bro...

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    • #32
      Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

      Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
      No they are not.

      Some of Israel rejected Messiah.
      But if you read the gospels and the book of Acts; you also find passage after passage of Israelites, who believed and followed Jesus in Great Multitudes!!

      Also they are not blinded as you say until the end of time.

      They are release immediatly from any blinding, if they repent.

      That promise is available to every Israelite throughout the entire NT era.

      "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. " Act 2

      Any Israelite can immediately come out of blindness.
      When the end comes, all will have; and then all will be saved. But they are not blinded until the end. The promise is available from the day Peter spoke it above.

      Paul tells you the same thing here....when the blindness ends....

      II Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

      As each Israelite repents, the veil is taken away; and they receive the promise; just like the 3000 Israelites did when Peter preached above in the first century.

      every writer I. The New Testament ....every original disciple of Jesus was an Israelite.....the ones who accepted Jesus.....they are the remnant who would be saved

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

        Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
        Hebrew would be their race. Apostle Paul was also a Hebrew, of the tribe of Benjamin. And regarding the law, a Pharisee. But, he was also a Christian.

        Philippians 3
        3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
        4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
        5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
        Yes. This is all true, but what value is then the flesh for a Christian? "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." (2nd Corinthians 5:16). Abraham was "called" from Ur to Bethel (Heb.11:8). His posterity of the flesh is Israel. "... my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh Who are Israelites; ... ." (Romans 9:3-4). Since the flesh is considered crucified with Christ it has no more place in God's view (Rom.6:1-5, Gal.2:20). We Christians are not called according to the flesh, We are, "... holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,... ." (Hebrews 3:1). Thus, just as Abraham left his "country, kinsmen and father's house", and just as Jesus refused His mother and brethren in Matthew 12, we must refuse any connection with the flesh - even that of our Lord Jesus as 2nd Corinthians 5:16 above says.

        It might seem pedantic at the first, but it is the crux of the New Man. New Man, New Birth from above, New Nature, New Life - all things New. The word "Hebrews" now takes its true meaning - "River Crossers". Abraham crossed flood to obey the calling of God, leaving the old behind. Israel crossed a flood once at the Red Sea and once at Jordan to leave the old behind. And we, taking the example of Israel (1st Corinthians 10:1-11), are also "River Crossers". Whether Jew or Gentile in our past, we are a New Creature and old things are passed away - including ethnicity (2nd Corinthians 5:17). The Believers of the book of Hebrews must leave Israel, Moses, the Law and the things of the flesh behind.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

          Even this shows a figure that things would eventually change, specifically the seed of Abram, and the seed of Abraham. Representing the natural born of flesh Abram, and the seed of promise by which the promise is why he is renamed Abraham.

          “And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.”
          **Genesis‬ *14:13‬ *KJV‬‬

          “And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.”
          **Genesis‬ *15:3-6‬ *KJV‬‬

          ok so God promised Abram he would have a child of his own loins..and Abraham believed Gods promise. But then Sarai intervenes and supplies the seed her way, by her idea.

          “And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

          And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.”
          **Genesis‬ *16:2, 4‬ *KJV‬‬....this is Ishmael representing the first covenant.

          but then something interesting happens..

          “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

          And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

          And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

          ....And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

          And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

          And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

          But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.”
          **Genesis‬ *17:1-5, 7, 15-16, 18-22‬ *KJV‬‬


          Ishmael is based on Sarai's idea and provision, that Abraham might have a seed, which God had already promised him. This represents the first covenant. It's based on mans righteousness, how well can man keep a holy law determines everything.

          but God declines to establish his everlasting covenant with Ishmael , yet he blesses him and says 12 princes shall come from the and he will be a great nation. But with Isaac, the seed made purely of my promise to you, with him I will establish my covenant everlasting.

          so then when Isaac is born this happens


          “And the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken. For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.

          And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

          And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.”
          **Genesis‬ *21:1-3, 9-10, 12‬ *KJV‬‬

          here's Paul teaching us this

          “For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

          Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

          But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

          Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

          But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”
          **Galatians‬ *4:22-31‬ *KJV‬‬


          we are children of the promised eternal covenant , which is represented by Isaac the son of promise, which is Christ Jesus.

          the covenant was always set to change with Jesus Christ

          “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
          **Galatians‬ *3:16‬ *KJV‬‬


          it was always about jesus

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

            Originally posted by Walls View Post
            Yes. This is all true, but what value is then the flesh for a Christian? "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." (2nd Corinthians 5:16). Abraham was "called" from Ur to Bethel (Heb.11:8). His posterity of the flesh is Israel. "... my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh Who are Israelites; ... ." (Romans 9:3-4). Since the flesh is considered crucified with Christ it has no more place in God's view (Rom.6:1-5, Gal.2:20). We Christians are not called according to the flesh, We are, "... holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling,... ." (Hebrews 3:1). Thus, just as Abraham left his "country, kinsmen and father's house", and just as Jesus refused His mother and brethren in Matthew 12, we must refuse any connection with the flesh - even that of our Lord Jesus as 2nd Corinthians 5:16 above says.

            It might seem pedantic at the first, but it is the crux of the New Man. New Man, New Birth from above, New Nature, New Life - all things New. The word "Hebrews" now takes its true meaning - "River Crossers". Abraham crossed flood to obey the calling of God, leaving the old behind. Israel crossed a flood once at the Red Sea and once at Jordan to leave the old behind. And we, taking the example of Israel (1st Corinthians 10:1-11), are also "River Crossers". Whether Jew or Gentile in our past, we are a New Creature and old things are passed away - including ethnicity (2nd Corinthians 5:17). The Believers of the book of Hebrews must leave Israel, Moses, the Law and the things of the flesh behind.

            This is a continual struggle with Christians. Paul identified with this all too well as he taught, we cannot please God in the flesh. There is a constant struggle between the inward man of the spirit with that of the outer man of the lusts of the flesh. But God's grace is sufficient for us. But we must keep our minds and thoughts focused on God and the things of the spirit. And when we do fall short, and we will, we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.


            Romans 7
            21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
            22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
            23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
            24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

            Romans 8
            5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
            6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
            7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
            8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

            1 John 1:9
            If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: HEBREWS 8 WHEN?

              Originally posted by TMarcum View Post
              This is a continual struggle with Christians. Paul identified with this all too well as he taught, we cannot please God in the flesh. There is a constant struggle between the inward man of the spirit with that of the outer man of the lusts of the flesh. But God's grace is sufficient for us. But we must keep our minds and thoughts focused on God and the things of the spirit. And when we do fall short, and we will, we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.


              Romans 7
              21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
              22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
              23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
              24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

              Romans 8
              5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
              6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
              7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
              8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

              1 John 1:9
              If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

              the law of sin Paul's talking about there, he's explaining that through Christ and the gospel, the law of the spirit of life , it's taken away.

              It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
              **John‬ *6:63‬ *KJV‬‬




              “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. ..... Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
              **John‬ *8:31-36‬ *KJV‬‬


              you see this again here, from Paul to the church....


              “What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

              Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

              But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

              But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
              **Romans‬ *6:15-18, 22-23‬ *KJV‬‬


              again coming from where you quoted Paul explaining the law of sin within us...

              “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

              That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

              Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

              But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
              **Romans‬ *8:1-2, 4-9‬ *KJV‬‬



              this is a law for our flesh....

              Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
              **Exodus‬ *20:14‬ *KJV‬‬

              while this is the law of the spirit of life


              Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

              But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
              **Matthew‬ *5:27-30‬ *KJV‬‬


              the law is about restraining the carnality in us in our flesh. It does nothing to change the spirit in us. Jesus doctrine is focused on our heart and minds. In other words , if anyone really believes in Jesus Christ being the lord of heaven and earth , thier own personal savior and lord who died for them. And they hear his word " anyone who is looking at people with lustful thoughts and intentions, is in danger of hell...showing us the importance of ridding those things out of us......then adultery is not something we'll ever do, if we follow the law of the spirit which is in Christ.


              If we let the truth in, that lust in our hearts and minds is what causes us to commit adultery, well then notice it's there in us and it's then really easy to stop looking at others the wrong way....and just like he said, the sin of adultery is something that never even occurs to do, Jesus teaches us to be clean inside our motives , thoughts , heart.....he's imparting a spirit of holiness that doesn't lust....therefore the person has no motivation to ever sin sexually.


              the flesh there which we can't please God in , is the law of carnality, of we walk our lives trying " not to commit adultery" we'll never be pleasing to God, but if we accept the gospel, Jesus and his word of spirit and life, makes us acceptable before God.

              his knowledge is the spirit imparted

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