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  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Speaking of God writing his law in our hearts through his Spirit, Paul says:

    [I]2 Cor 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.[/I

    Although this may be a hard doctrine for some to understand how it ties to the law of Christ written in the hearts of the faithful in the New Covenant.

    Comment


    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      The first link is not working but the second provided sufficient support for my argument that not only is the new covenant operative now, it is also for the Jew and Gentile who believe. If you say the video posits that the new covenant is exclusive to Israel, then you must be referring to another video - but definitely not the one in the link you provided.
      Neither video was actually for you, you seem uninterested in anything that doesn't support your position and the fact that you believe the second vid supports your position is proof of that. But still, I do hope you review them over again objectively and actually try to understand the position of those who hold different views than you. The first video is just a basic outline of the book of Hebrews since you don't want to admit its OT connections and every time I bring them up you ignore them, I thought others would enjoy a basic outline to see all the stuff you purposefully leave out since it hurts your position. Also, i suggest maybe you should put on subtitles so you can read what the people are saying in the both videos.


      Here I will quote some stuff you clearly missed, for example at minute 3:45 they state the Prophets talked about a day when God would "Restore the Covenants".


      The second part I'm sure you believe supported your position was at 4:52 when Jesus "calls" people to follow him and become a part of this New Covenant family.


      Like usual you believe the "Call" is the same as the New Covenant.


      IOW you believe Your Mum Calling you for Dinner is the same as you actually Eating dinner.


      Notice that at the start of the Video he Calls Covenants "Partnerships" and at the end of the video they state. "At the end of the Bible, we see John describing a new and perfect partnership with God where all the saved work with Him to once again spread goodness and perfection throughout the world."


      This is what the Covenant Later people believe is the New Covenant.




      Here is a repost of the link with the outline of Hebrews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNWTZZwgbs

      Comment


      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

        Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
        Neither video was actually for you, you seem uninterested in anything that doesn't support your position and the fact that you believe the second vid supports your position is proof of that. But still, I do hope you review them over again objectively and actually try to understand the position of those who hold different views than you. The first video is just a basic outline of the book of Hebrews since you don't want to admit its OT connections and every time I bring them up you ignore them, I thought others would enjoy a basic outline to see all the stuff you purposefully leave out since it hurts your position. Also, i suggest maybe you should put on subtitles so you can read what the people are saying in the both videos.

        Here I will quote some stuff you clearly missed, for example at minute 3:45 they state the Prophets talked about a day when God would "Restore the Covenants".

        The second part I'm sure you believe supported your position was at 4:52 when Jesus "calls" people to follow him and become a part of this New Covenant family.

        Like usual you believe the "Call" is the same as the New Covenant.

        IOW you believe Your Mum Calling you for Dinner is the same as you actually Eating dinner.

        Notice that at the start of the Video he Calls Covenants "Partnerships" and at the end of the video they state. "At the end of the Bible, we see John describing a new and perfect partnership with God where all the saved work with Him to once again spread goodness and perfection throughout the world."

        This is what the Covenant Later people believe is the New Covenant.

        Here is a repost of the link with the outline of Hebrews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNWTZZwgbs
        It will be nice to hear the comments of others who have watched the videos to confirm whether they share your false narrative of what was said.

        Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
        Neither video was actually for you, you seem uninterested in anything that doesn't support your position and the fact that you believe the second vid supports your position is proof of that. But still, I do hope you review them over again objectively and actually try to understand the position of those who hold different views than you. The first video is just a basic outline of the book of Hebrews since you don't want to admit its OT connections and every time I bring them up you ignore them, I thought others would enjoy a basic outline to see all the stuff you purposefully leave out since it hurts your position. Also, i suggest maybe you should put on subtitles so you can read what the people are saying in the both videos.

        Here I will quote some stuff you clearly missed, for example at minute 3:45 they state the Prophets talked about a day when God would "Restore the Covenants".

        The second part I'm sure you believe supported your position was at 4:52 when Jesus "calls" people to follow him and become a part of this New Covenant family.

        Like usual you believe the "Call" is the same as the New Covenant.

        IOW you believe Your Mum Calling you for Dinner is the same as you actually Eating dinner.

        Notice that at the start of the Video he Calls Covenants "Partnerships" and at the end of the video they state. "At the end of the Bible, we see John describing a new and perfect partnership with God where all the saved work with Him to once again spread goodness and perfection throughout the world."

        This is what the Covenant Later people believe is the New Covenant.

        Here is a repost of the link with the outline of Hebrews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNWTZZwgbs
        It will be nice to hear the comments of others who have watched the videos to confirm whether they share your false narrative of what was said.

        Comment


        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
          It will be nice to hear the comments of others who have watched the videos to confirm whether they share your false narrative of what was said.
          Let everyone share there opinion on anything that's the point of the boards, i'm not the arbiter of truth. I just obejctively present evidence that i find. Adding in more evidence can only contribute to the debate. It's better then just saying "that's irrelevant" and posting others opinions as my own.

          Comment


          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

            Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNWTZZwgbs

            Just thought this would be a good resource, many people in this debate want to ignore the necessity of the OT when understanding the book of Hebrews, mainly because this understanding makes there positions illogical.


            Note whats stated about the people's knowledge of the OT, and consider the knowledge of the people who are claiming to teach doctrine out of this book, do they have a thorough knowledge of the OT? Is there doctrine in line with the OT? Are we now in the promised land or the (New Creation). Decide for yourselves.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ferLIsvlmI


            Also, another great video here we see can see the contrast between the positions presented in this thread, Trivalee(and the covenant now crowd) believe Jesus gathering people is the New Covenant. The covenant later people, see Jesus gathering people now who in the future will live in this New Creation (which is ruled under the New Covenant).
            Feel 5 years old, in sunday school.

            Who ignores the necessity of the OT to understand Hebrews? That would be really dumb. You could try to understand about 3 verses, LOL. That it doesn't address and mention Gentiles means nothing. Jeremiah didn't either in chapter 31. This doesn't exclude Gentiles. That's the antithesis of the rest Scripture.

            I don't recall saying or agreeing that Jesus gathering people is the NC. Can you show me where I did?

            Thanks

            Comment


            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

              Originally posted by Noeb View Post
              Feel 5 years old, in sunday school.

              Who ignores the necessity of the OT to understand Hebrews? That would be really dumb. You could try to understand about 3 verses, LOL. That it doesn't address and mention Gentiles means nothing. Jeremiah didn't either in chapter 31. This doesn't exclude Gentiles. That's the antithesis of the rest Scripture.

              I don't recall saying or agreeing that Jesus gathering people is the NC. Can you show me where I did?

              Thanks
              Honestly, I watched their whole bible series, then they got on to The Naked Bible Podcast (with Dr. Michael Heiser), talking about making a series on the Divine Council, they did the promotion video for the Series today and honestly, it's amazing highly recommended.

              Do you believe that passages like Jeremiah 34:37-40 and Ezekial 34:22-27 & Ezekial 37:21-28 include a land provision for the New or "Everlasting" covenant?

              Comment


              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                Feel 5 years old, in sunday school.

                Who ignores the necessity of the OT to understand Hebrews? That would be really dumb. You could try to understand about 3 verses, LOL. That it doesn't address and mention Gentiles means nothing. Jeremiah didn't either in chapter 31. This doesn't exclude Gentiles. That's the antithesis of the rest Scripture.

                I don't recall saying or agreeing that Jesus gathering people is the NC. Can you show me where I did?

                Thanks

                For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God. For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel. Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn Jer 31:6-9 and in reality the whole chapter.

                Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure. For they are gone up to Assyria, a wild ass alone by himself: Ephraim hath hired lovers. Hosea 8:8,9

                And his father refuseth, and saith, 'I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother (Ephraim) is greater than he, and his seed is the fullness of the nations;' (Gentiles) and he blesseth them in that day, saying, 'By thee doth Israel bless, saying, God set thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh;' and he setteth Ephraim before Manasseh. Gen 48:1920


                Are the descendants of Ephraim, today, truly the fullness of the Gentiles?

                Comment


                • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                  Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                  Honestly, I watched their whole bible series, then they got on to The Naked Bible Podcast (with Dr. Michael Heiser), talking about making a series on the Divine Council, they did the promotion video for the Series today and honestly, it's amazing highly recommended.

                  Do you believe that passages like Jeremiah 34:37-40 and Ezekial 34:22-27 & Ezekial 37:21-28 include a land provision for the New or "Everlasting" covenant?
                  Eze 47 makes it abundantly clear that gentiles inherit land and are equals with Israel in this regard. However I think it's referring to the future surviving mortals of His coming, not now. Your Jeremiah 34 reference doesn't exist, BTW.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                    Originally posted by percho View Post
                    For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God. For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel. Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn Jer 31:6-9 and in reality the whole chapter.

                    Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure. For they are gone up to Assyria, a wild ass alone by himself: Ephraim hath hired lovers. Hosea 8:8,9

                    And his father refuseth, and saith, 'I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother (Ephraim) is greater than he, and his seed is the fullness of the nations;' (Gentiles) and he blesseth them in that day, saying, 'By thee doth Israel bless, saying, God set thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh;' and he setteth Ephraim before Manasseh. Gen 48:1920


                    Are the descendants of Ephraim, today, truly the fullness of the Gentiles?
                    No, I'm not really into that lost tribes stuff.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                      Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                      Let everyone share there opinion on anything that's the point of the boards, i'm not the arbiter of truth. I just obejctively present evidence that i find. Adding in more evidence can only contribute to the debate. It's better then just saying "that's irrelevant" and posting others opinions as my own.
                      True. Can refute that. Let everyone cast in their pennyworth...

                      Comment


                      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                        Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
                        Honestly, I watched their whole bible series, then they got on to The Naked Bible Podcast (with Dr. Michael Heiser), talking about making a series on the Divine Council, they did the promotion video for the Series today and honestly, it's amazing highly recommended.

                        Do you believe that passages like Jeremiah 34:37-40 and Ezekial 34:22-27 & Ezekial 37:21-28 include a land provision for the New or "Everlasting" covenant?
                        God's promise is immutable, therefore the land promise remains valid. But the question is will all Israel or is it only those who believe through the ages that will partake of this land promise? Now, I've heard arguments from every quarter; some (like Walls) claim that every Jew whether in the Kingdom of God or hell fire will inherit, etc.

                        But my point is that a Jew in this NT age must first be saved before he can inherit the land. We find in Luke 13:28-29 that not every Jew will be in the Kingdom and it's not rocket science to understand that those cast out into the outer darkness will not partake from the land promise.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                          Originally posted by percho View Post
                          For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God. For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel. Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn Jer 31:6-9 and in reality the whole chapter.

                          Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure. For they are gone up to Assyria, a wild ass alone by himself: Ephraim hath hired lovers. Hosea 8:8,9

                          And his father refuseth, and saith, 'I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother (Ephraim) is greater than he, and his seed is the fullness of the nations;' (Gentiles) and he blesseth them in that day, saying, 'By thee doth Israel bless, saying, God set thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh;' and he setteth Ephraim before Manasseh. Gen 48:1920

                          Are the descendants of Ephraim, today, truly the fullness of the Gentiles?
                          A good post. But I can't figure out whether you believe the new covenant is now operative and includes Gentile believers or, as some claim, to be introduced in the future?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                            Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                            Eze 47 makes it abundantly clear that gentiles inherit land and are equals with Israel in this regard. However I think it's referring to the future surviving mortals of His coming, not now. Your Jeremiah 34 reference doesn't exist, BTW.
                            Thanks for letting me know i meant to say Jeremiah 32:37-40.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                              God's promise is immutable, therefore the land promise remains valid. But the question is will all Israel or is it only those who believe through the ages that will partake of this land promise? Now, I've heard arguments from every quarter; some (like Walls) claim that every Jew whether in the Kingdom of God or hell fire will inherit, etc.

                              But my point is that a Jew in this NT age must first be saved before he can inherit the land. We find in Luke 13:28-29 that not every Jew will be in the Kingdom and it's not rocket science to understand that those cast out into the outer darkness will not partake from the land promise.
                              Honestly, I can agree with this whole post. Still since we are both Premil we must agree that at some point Jesus will establish his rule on Earth. I'm sure you will agree that the Kingdom of Jesus will have laws. Do you think that "Faith" will be required during the Millenial kingdom of Christ? If so how?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                                A good post. But I can't figure out whether you believe the new covenant is now operative and includes Gentile believers or, as some claim, to be introduced in the future?
                                To be honest, I'm not for sure, and I'm old and running out of time to make up my mind, as if that matters.

                                Comment

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