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  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Sorry i don't understand why you quoted that article when it doesn't support your position.
    Sure it does.


    Here is quote from the article.
    Quote: The New Covenant was originally given to Israel and includes a promise of fruitfulness, blessing, and a peaceful existence in the Promised Land. [/B]In Ezekiel 36:28–30 God says, “Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. . . . I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.” Deuteronomy 30:1–5 contains similar promises related to Israel under the New Covenant. After the resurrection of Christ, Gentiles were brought into the blessing of the New Covenant, too (Acts 10; Ephesians 2:13–14).

    The fulfillment of the New Covenant will be seen in two places: on earth, during the Millennial Kingdom; and in heaven, for all eternity"Literally this is what we've been saying from the beginning if you don't believe this article supports the position that the NC takes place On Earth during the Millenial Kingdom what exactly do you "think" it states?
    The NC has not ended yet, it will at the end of the world I would suppose. We are in the millennial Kingdom now, the Gospel age. The NC takes place on earth, now, and will be fulfilled at the end of time..

    Starting points matter, as does sound theology.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

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    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

      Originally posted by bluesky22 View Post
      How someone could argue that NC ( new cov ) has not begun yet blows my mind. The Jews today, should be under the NC just as the first Jews were, but they cling to types and shadows and therefore grope along in the dark.

      This was good >>> https://www.gotquestions.org/new-covenant.html “What is the NC?”

      Here’s a clue that is on now.

      When Ezekiel said 36:26–27, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.”

      Doesn’t this sound an aweful lot about being born again? Don’t Christians have the spirit of God living in them?

      This is the danger of dispensationalism. It teaches a whole different theology to Jews and Christians when in fact, the first Jews saw the connections that Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT types and shadows.

      The NC replaced the OT for all alive. The first Jews saw this. The remnant saw the connenction and went with it.
      You'll be surprised at the number of people who have claimed exactly that - that the NC is still in the future. Some say it started on the cross but "suspended" until Jesus returns in the millennium. These proponents further claim that the NC will be in conjunction with the restoration of the land promised to Abraham. IOW, they assert that the Church has nothing to do with it!

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      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

        Hebrews 7:22 [blb] -

        "By so much also, Jesus has become the guarantee [a surety] of a better covenant."

        What do you believe "has become A SURETY" ?

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        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

          ^ … means? (lol)

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          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

            That's very self explanatory DW.. Thanks

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            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

              Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
              I just don't accept your personal position as proof, I believe there are other interpretations that don't require us to change up the timeline presented in Revelation 20-22
              My 'position' is backed by scripture. you have to be objective to see it. And what are these "other interpretations" you allude to?

              Originally posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
              I have no personal crusade against you, personally you are one of my favorite people to debate because of your inability to grasp certain concepts allows my to actually expound on my own positions. Consider since i've been back how many posts from others I have actually interacted with. Seriously I love you brother and I really would like to help you, I have no desire for you to force you to come to my positions, I just really wish you would open up to other intreptations and stop considering whatever one you currently hold at a given time is a Fact. As I stated nothing in Rev 21:26-27 or Rev 22:14-15 requires that the NJ to comes down during the MK and there are clear reasons why this is not the case. Other people here also do not agree with you do you honestly believe it just simply because of a vendetta? The truth is there are other ways to solve the paradox that you seem to believe these passages show then to say the NJ comes early.
              I am satisfied and comforted that I present my cases in concise and unambiguous narratives and I leave it to the objective scholar to review, accept or reject. I can do no more.

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              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                I have nothing against fellow Christians propagating the Gospel of Christ. My point is that you often proffer close to nothing as your "own" opinion. You have a tendency to copy opinions from the internet to make your case. Secondly, (and I'm saying this as a general statement not focused against anyone) the fact that someone has a PhD in religious studies or posted an article online does not necessarily mean that the ideas and thoughts they express are infallible.
                Nothing i Proffer is of value to you anyway, everytime I give my opinion or try to show you something you claim "its irrelevant" or that you simply cannot grasp the concept. Personally i'm fine with it because you seem to do it to everyone. For example you can't grasp the concept that the KoG and the KoH are different, you just ignore my position is possible as a form of argument. Then you offer your own position as a contrast and claim your personal position is a Fact and that you "proved it". Then you tell us to refer to where you offered your opinion as proof. Notice i never do this... I never claim what I personally believe is a Fact or that I have proved anything. I just try to show you what I believe, which you clearly believe is wrong on all accounts . When that is inadequate( which it usually is in your case) i try to offer you scholar level martieral and quotes from other sources to *support* my views. As i said my goal is simply to make you *understand* my position, whether you agree or not to me does not matter. Your goal here seems to be to *Prove* that you're right. Which is why you constantly say your opinions are *proofs*.

                Then you claim anyone who doesn't agree with what you believe - Lacks understanding, or needs more study, or that what they said "makes no sense" or that they're wrong. Now you're trotting out one of my favorites that you do the old - refer to what i said in the past like you're doing in post 497.

                Sorry but your proof is inadequete to me I do not believe the line of reasoning you present in post 497 is the message John is conveying in those passages. I do not agree with your proof or your reasoning.

                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                As per your personal attacks against me, I can't believe you're even pretending to be unaware! It didn't start from the OP. There are several posts here where you ignored what I wrote in favour of remarks that are unrelated. But it doesn't bother me. I concur when your argument is on point.
                You have made this claim that I attack you in the past, but everytime you make this claim you are unable to show any examples or any proof. Just this one time show me one example of what you mean when you say I personally Attack you. You accused me of doing this and now i'm asking for proof, or withdraw this slander against me, please show me and example were I attack your person so that i may correct it.

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                • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                  Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                  You'll be surprised at the number of people who have claimed exactly that - that the NC is still in the future. Some say it started on the cross but "suspended" until Jesus returns in the millennium. These proponents further claim that the NC will be in conjunction with the restoration of the land promised to Abraham. IOW, they assert that the Church has nothing to do with it!
                  That’s the power of dispensationalism.
                  “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

                  מקום כניעה סך הכל

                  Comment


                  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                    Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
                    Hebrews 7:22 [blb] -

                    "By so much also, Jesus has become the guarantee [a surety] of a better covenant."

                    What do you believe "has become A SURETY" ?
                    Please clarify?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                      And what is your take on Luke 22:16, 18, 30 [blb] (in the bold) -

                      14 And when the hour was come, He reclined, and the apostles with Him. 15 And He said to them, “With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I say to you that never again will I eat thereof, until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”
                      17 And having received the cup, having given thanks, He said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I say to you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now until the kingdom of God shall come.”

                      […]

                      28 Now you are those having remained with Me in My trials. 29 And I appoint to you a kingdom, as My Father appointed to Me, 30 so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

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                      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                        Oh, and (Trivalee) have you considered my questions posed to you in my post # 467 of this thread? I'm curious of your answers there, if you care to address that. Thanks.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                          Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
                          And what is your take on Luke 22:16, 18, 30 [blb] (in the bold) -

                          14 And when the hour was come, He reclined, and the apostles with Him. 15 And He said to them, “With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I say to you that never again will I eat thereof, until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”
                          17 And having received the cup, having given thanks, He said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I say to you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now until the kingdom of God shall come.”

                          […]

                          28 Now you are those having remained with Me in My trials. 29 And I appoint to you a kingdom, as My Father appointed to Me, 30 so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
                          Your posts are usually difficult to follow because of the way you write. And this particular case is exacerbated by the lack of personal comments to point the reader to why you used the cited Bible passages.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                            Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
                            And what is your take on Luke 22:16, 18, 30 [blb] (in the bold) -

                            14 And when the hour was come, He reclined, and the apostles with Him. 15 And He said to them, “With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I say to you that never again will I eat thereof, until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”
                            17 And having received the cup, having given thanks, He said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I say to you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now until the kingdom of God shall come.”

                            […]

                            28 Now you are those having remained with Me in My trials. 29 And I appoint to you a kingdom, as My Father appointed to Me, 30 so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
                            [forgot to add] ...and the parallels in Matthew 26:29 "UNTIL that day when I drink it NEW WITH [G3326 - meta - accompanying] YOU in my Father's kingdom."

                            ...and Matthew 19:28 "when [compare "when," in Matthew 25:31-34]… ye also shall sit upon 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel."

                            Comment


                            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                              Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
                              Oh, and (Trivalee) have you considered my questions posed to you in my post # 467 of this thread? I'm curious of your answers there, if you care to address that. Thanks.
                              I responded to your #476 post on #494.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                                Your posts are usually difficult to follow because of the way you write. And this particular case is exacerbated by the lack of personal comments to point the reader to why you used the cited Bible passages.
                                I'm pointing out the words "until it be fulfilled in..."

                                What is this referring to?

                                Comment

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