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Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

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  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, it is everlasting.

    Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
    Sure, I can agree.


    The MK hasn't started yet and is not the gospel age. Rev 19-20 prove the MK doesn't start until Jesus has returned and he hasn't returned yet.
    Ya there’s lots of debate on this. I won’t be dogmatic, but I have some thoughts.

    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, it is everlasting.

    Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
    Sure, I can agree.


    The MK hasn't started yet and is not the gospel age. Rev 19-20 prove the MK doesn't start until Jesus has returned and he hasn't returned yet.
    Ya there’s lots of debate on this. I won’t be dogmatic, but I have some thoughts.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

    Comment


    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      You could have had a better argument if you supported it with scripture. But what did the Jews at the time understood about the Messiah to come?

      The Jews were acquainted with many of the prophecies about the Messiah, the chosen or “anointed one” as the word means in Hebrew. They firmly believed that the Messiah would be a strong and glorious earthly king who would deliver them from their Roman oppressors and form once again a great and independent Jewish kingdom. The wise men who came from the east seeking the newborn Jesus inquired at Jerusalem, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?” (Matt 2:1-2).

      Even King Herod, who ruled Judea at the time, clearly understood that the Messiah the Jews expected was to be another king and thus a rival to him. The expectation that the Christ would be a king fit with their understanding that He would also be a descendant of David, the most famous of all the kings of Israel and the one by whom all other kings were measured.

      When the people desired the appearance of “the Son of David,” they were hoping for the prophesied One who would restore the kingdom of Israel under the Davidic dynasty. At one point when Jesus miraculously fed a following of 5,000 men, they were convinced that He was “the Prophet who is to come into the world” (John 6:14). This is an allusion to Moses’ prophecy of “a Prophet like me” in Deut 18:15-19. The disciples of Jesus identified Jesus as this same Prophet, “Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph” (John 1:45).

      And even after His death and resurrection, His disciples were still focused on the idea that He would restore the Davidic kingdom to Israel then. They asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6). They didn’t yet understand all the pieces of the prophetic puzzle He was revealing to them.
      You did not address how you know they did not have in mind the Messiah/superior king to all others, would not inherit and rule the earth?

      Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
      You could have had a better argument if you supported it with scripture.
      Oh, and scripture for what?

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      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
        See post #487.
        This assumes there will come a day when everyone that remains is glorified and unable to sin. Sorry. I do not subscribe to things not found in scripture.


        Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
        Sorry, you are not making any sense.
        I understand that it's hard for those that have perceived the koh to be the koG for a long time to see otherwise, but that doesn't mean it is me that is not making sense. Sometimes people just aren't ready to receive spiritual truths/mysteries. It's ok.

        Comment


        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

          Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
          So the passage (Matt 21:43) where Jesus said the kingdom will be taken from unbelieving Israel and given to those who will bring forth fruit is a lie? The kingdom will be taken from the Jews who don't believe, not the who believe.
          No, it's not a lie, it is exactly what I said. It's not, however, what you said. Changing your mind?

          Comment


          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
            You are just expounding junk doctrine. It's obvious you have no clue of what you're saying since you believe that in Matt 21:43 the nation that will bring in forth good fruit, is Israel. The latter part of your post shows how you contradict yourself because you got it right that those who will bear fruit are believers. Maybe it's your grammar that's your problem.
            Hey, your the one that wants to apply it generally to Israel, when the context is clearly talking about it's leaders and the rest of scripture tells us many believed. Your replacement theology is a lie.

            Comment


            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
              If you had paid half attention to what I said about the MK, you would have noted that in my view, righteousness will only be in the New Jerusalem, the holy city that comes down from heaven. The wicked nations will live outside the holy city.
              Not the issue. The issue is when the NJ comes.

              Comment


              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                Read the parable again and note the grammar "the kingdom of heaven is likened to". The text didn't say the earth is the Koh, it is a comparison.
                Spiritualism leads to false doctrine. How do you know when to apply this rule of yours and when not to? Things can get pretty absurd if you apply this rule of your across the board.

                Comment


                • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                  Originally posted by bluesky22 View Post
                  Sure, I can agree.
                  Ok good.

                  Ya there’s lots of debate on this. I won’t be dogmatic, but I have some thoughts.
                  Ok.

                  Originally posted by bluesky22 View Post
                  Sure, I can agree.
                  Ok good.

                  Ya there’s lots of debate on this. I won’t be dogmatic, but I have some thoughts.
                  Ok.
                  James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                    Originally posted by kyCyd View Post
                    I agree, that was why I questioned it, and posted a thread way back.

                    This to me was part of the problem with the KH and KG being the same thing. So this is why I am beginning to see them as different like Noeb mentions. Think about this:

                    Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

                    Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

                    Ask yourself this question: If the "Kingdom of God" is within you, and if the "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven" are one and the same, how could anyone take it out of you by violence?

                    Does that help you to see the difference between the spiritual and the physical?
                    In Luke 17:21 Jesus was speaking to Pharisees. He was just referring to the ability to believe. Interestingly in regard to your post, that's exactly how Jesus said the koh could be obtained. Believe - Mat 11:14-15, 28-30. But they did not repent -vv 16-24. The koh would not come, but in contrast, people would go into the koG. No one would go into the koh - Mat 23:13. The leaders prevented it.

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                    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      In Luke 17:21 Jesus was speaking to Pharisees. He was just referring to the ability to believe. Interestingly in regard to your post, that's exactly how Jesus said the koh could be obtained. Believe - Mat 11:14-15, 28-30. But they did not repent -vv 16-24. The koh would not come, but in contrast, people would go into the koG. No one would go into the koh - Mat 23:13. The leaders prevented it.
                      and for those of you that think the two descriptive phrase are talking about the same thing, how can you go into (koG) that which has been shut up (koh)?

                      Comment


                      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                        Originally posted by bluesky22 View Post
                        That’s the power of dispensationalism.
                        Yet, you claim it is happening in a dispensation. Himmm....

                        Comment


                        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                          Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                          Hey, your the one that wants to apply it generally to Israel, when the context is clearly talking about it's leaders and the rest of scripture tells us many believed. Your replacement theology is a lie.
                          Except replacement theology does not actually exist.
                          “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

                          מקום כניעה סך הכל

                          Comment


                          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                            Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                            Yet, you claim it is happening in a dispensation. Himmm....

                            Are we talking about the same definitions?

                            Your welcome to elaborate, discussion is good. If I am wrong I am open to being corrected.
                            “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

                            מקום כניעה סך הכל

                            Comment


                            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                              Originally posted by bluesky22 View Post
                              Except replacement theology does not actually exist.
                              Not sure what this could possibly mean.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                                Originally posted by bluesky22 View Post
                                We are in the millennial Kingdom now, the Gospel age. The NC takes place on earth, now, and will be fulfilled at the end of time..

                                Starting points matter, as does sound theology.
                                The dispensation of the gospel? It doesn't exist?

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