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Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

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  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

    Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    ^ Sorry, forgot to use the quoting feature (my post was in response to this):
    I have replied. See post #630.

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    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
      IOW you don't have anything
      If you say so, doesn't bother me

      Comment


      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

        Originally posted by Noeb View Post
        wrong. Jesus told a specific group of individuals it would be taken from them. Learn how to read.
        Learn to read? That's rich coming from you. Let others figure out who is right.

        Comment


        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

          Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
          Consider the SEQUENCE supplied in the following:

          --In the Matt22 passage, verses 7-8 supply a specific SEQUENCE, with verse 7 referring to the events of 70ad ('...the king... was WROTH [see Lk21:23]: and he sent forth his armies [see Lk21:20], and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city'--the 70ad events) and verse 8 telling of what happens AFTER THAT, "THEN SAITH HE to His servants"... Jesus was in Heaven during the "after 70ad" events, recall... yet this passage states "THEN SAITH HE to His Servants...".

          What we have in The Revelation [95ad], is (as stated in verse 1), "The Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [Jesus], TO SHEW UNTO His servants [see 7:3 "servants of our God"] things which must come to pass [compare with 4:1 (re: the FUTURE aspects of the book)] IN QUICKNESS [noun]..." [not events over the course of some 2000 yrs], and there He discloses FURTHER INFORMATION on THAT very subject (the events surrounding His Second Coming to the earth which is preceded by this very specific, limited future time period [following our Rapture, but leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth--the 7 yrs / i.e. "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" as also found in Lk18:8[chpt 17 end] and also (re: the Church which is His body) in Romans 16:20 [distinct location] (compare 1Cor6:3[14] "we shall judge angels," as I recently mentioned in a different thread over in the End Times section)]).

          So verses 7-8 is supplying a very distinct SEQUENCE, and telling just who the servants of that future time period will be, who are the ones DOING the "INVITING" to the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (their promised and prophesied earthly MK) all through those trib years (for example: compare Matt24:14[26:13] with the wording in Revelation 7:9; and compare Matt22:8-14 with the Rev19:9's "BLESSED are all those HAVING BEEN INVITED..." with the numerous "BLESSED" passages I listed in a previous post). At the point in time of Rev19, the "INVITING" has been completed [aorist] (on the earth, DURING the trib) but not the actual "FEAST/SUPPER" [the earthly MK and its commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth]). This is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" itself (pertaining to the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" already taken place in Heaven [aorist] by the Rev19 point in time. They are distinct (that is, Rev19:7 is distinct from Rev19:9).

          The blurring of these [into one mishmash of mush] comes as a result of not "correctly apportioning" the various passages, thus wrongly applying certain passages that pertain to Israel's promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom directly to [to be meaning] "the Church which is His body" (which has distinct role, position, placement, purpose, hope, etc...)
          I concur that Math 22:7-8 refers to 70AD. I believe this is about the FACT you got right. Obviously, you are one of those who teach that Israel will be distinct and separate from the Church when Christ returns. And nothing can be further from the truth. If there is a "mishmash" of scriptural truth, it is the doctrine of a distinct Israel separated from the Body of Christ.

          Scriptures abound that the faitful (Jew/Gentile) are united in their their faith in Christ. The disciples and Apostles are ALL part of the Church and the majority of them were ethnic Jews. To tell me that the likes of Peter, Paul, etc are no longer part of the Church is borderline ludicrous. Paul says the baptized in Christ are ONE - there's no more Jew or Gentile, spiritually speaking of course (Gal 3:27-28). Peter aptly summed it up, vide:

          1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

          In case this is not enough to convict you of your error, consider what Jesus told his disciples who were 100% Jews about uniting them with Gentile belivers.

          John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

          Here Jesus was addressing the disciples who are Jews, and say he will bring another sheep that "not of this fold" ie, non Jews and together with the Jews, the church shall be ONE and have one Shepherd.

          Comment


          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

            Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
            ^ meant to add a portion of the Hosea 5:15 verse I mentioned (so will place it here instead, lacking the EDIT feature):

            Berean Study Bible
            Then I will return to My place until they admit their guilt and seek My face; in their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.

            New American Standard Bible
            I will go away and return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.

            King James Bible
            I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
            Is that, "until," a point in time, of their choosing or a point in time, according to the choice of God?

            Is that,"until," relative to, -----

            And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. and or But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

            Will the until and those passages take place in the same relative period of time?

            Comment


            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

              Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
              Matthew 19:28 -

              And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory [compare Mt25:31-34 "when"], ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel.

              Luke 22:30 -That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judgING the twelve tribes of Israel.
              While the 12 Disciples and Apostles are the top, the rest of the saints (Jew/Gentile) will also reign and judge with them too...

              Comment


              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                Very good. God uses natural, to teach the supernatural. It's like in John 15 when Jesus spoke of the vine and the branches. We are branches, but not literally.
                Thanks, Mark. Unfortunately, those with bad doctrine are often the loudest. They rail so much in their attempt to force through their bad theory that if you're not grounded, you might begin to doubt yourself.

                Comment


                • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                  Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                  Of course. John 15:16 ...."that your fruit remain" ....the House of God is built on the foundation of the apostles......The first church was Israeli.
                  In John 15:16 Jesus was referring to the faithful Jews who have accepted his Gospel, not the unbelievers. Surely, you can see the difference?

                  Comment


                  • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                    Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                    They are the ones in the LOF, which is outside of the city.
                    Rev 22:15 is BEFORE the GWTJ and LoF.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                      Originally posted by Noeb View Post
                      Never had you. You can't pick and choose which parts of a parable the kingdom is like. It is like every part of the parable. There's no question. People that spiritualize scripture have a habit of picking and choosing like you did. It leads to very bad theology. They might say....the NJ comes down during the MK because it fits their spiritualized pick and choose theology, even though we have scripture that makes it abundantly clear the NJ does not come for the MK.
                      I am not alone in the view that Jesus made a comparison without saying that the earth is the Koh. See post #603.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                        Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                        No. I find it very important to assure the readers that this city will not contain anything evil unlike all cities people knew of previously.
                        God made a factual statement, not an assurance. We have already been told in Rev 21:12 that the city has 12 gates and guarded by 12 angels, so God has no reason to reassure anyone that the wicked will gatecrash.

                        I can't believe you just said that. The wicked are judged at the GWTJ that's the whole purpose of it.
                        The difference in our position is the *timeline*. The narrative clearly places the wicked and the murderers in Rev 22:15 BEFORE the GWTJ. I don't know how you can claim it's something else?

                        I only meant they don't exist like regular people will...you act as if the wicked live in camps outside the walls of the NJ but that isn't true. They all are in the LOF.
                        The wicked will live 1000 years before the GWTJ. Rev 21 and 22 refer to this timeline, ie. before the MK is over.

                        There is no disagreement. You are merely misunderstanding what it means to be outside of the city.
                        And you got it right, I suppose?

                        That's very bad logic. Chronology can be proven not just assumed. Rev is not very chronological but in places it is like the last 4 chapters and it's easy to prove. The beast and FP being in the LOF already in Rev 20 shows that Rev 19 is before rev 20 because in 19 they are cast into the LOF. Then we know Rev 21 is after Rev 20 because in Rev 20 seas still exist yet in Rev 21 we are told they no longer exist...and I shouldn't have to prove that Rev 22 comes after Rev 21 since it is the ending chapter and the wording supports that.
                        I see you've already made up your mind. So good luck.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
                          Of course but why even bring up something so obvious? The city simply comes down from heaven after the NHNE has begun.



                          False. No scripture supports that and the only scripture that shows it coming down is found long after the thousand years has ended.

                          No. The MK is over before the GWTJ happens. It does not happen at the end of the MK. The rest is correct but you have the timing of the NJ wrong.


                          My mind is open but what is taught must match scripture. If I teach that 1 plus 1 is 3, will you have an open mind or will you see my error and try to show me? Your error is when the NJ comes down. There is also no break in "tradition" for 4 chapters to be in chronological order. The first 6 are, and possibly even up to chp 10. The jumpy chronology is found in chapters 11-18.
                          1. Perhaps you should start another OP specifically to discuss when the NJ and NHNE will start?
                          2. Have you ever seen the wrong throwing up their hands in the air to concede they are wrong? There's no prize given for being right, so I hope you'll come to the knowledge of the truth in due course.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                            Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                            1. If this is true, when will these "mortals" receive immortality, surely some of them will live to the end of the MK?
                            2. The GWTJ is for the resurrected dead, no living will be judged there, so when?
                            tree of life, which requires obedience to access.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                              Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                              Learn to read? That's rich coming from you. Let others figure out who is right.
                              already done.
                              -Jesus told a group
                              -Israel received the KoG

                              It's not hard.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Has the New Covenant started or is it still in the future?

                                Originally posted by Trivalee View Post
                                Thanks, Mark. Unfortunately, those with bad doctrine are often the loudest. They rail so much in their attempt to force through their bad theory that if you're not grounded, you might begin to doubt yourself.
                                says the loudest individual, lol

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